CDZ Putin's Strategy Should Invoke NATO Article 5

[Billy_Bob]

Putin's attack on the nuclear plant should worry everyone on earth.

Let's play this strategy out...

Putin makes most of Europe uninhabitable with radiation. IE; Chernobyl X 6. Putin then takes possession of the land that these people flee from. No fighting involved. BAM RUISSA is again the landowner of the region. RUSSIA is again whole...

Due to fallout propagation, in fifty years most of the land will again be usable as radiation levels drop. Putin has rebuilt Mother Russia and did not have to take lands by force as the people flee the radiation clouds and fall out from the Nuclear Meltdowns (6 of them in this facility). Now there are many multiple reactor plants in Ukraine. Hitting any of them can result in this outcome.

Anyone who thinks Putin is not capable of this has not thought the strategy through. He would lay waste to US and NATO allied nations through his actions in Ukraine. This attack should invoke Article 5 of the NATO alliance IMHO. When Putin attacked that nuclear plant, he attacked all of Europe.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Putin's goal since 2000 has been to recreate Mother Russia. He is old school KGB and killing millions to get what he wants is of no concern to him. The longer this goes on the more dangerous it becomes.

Putin is counting on his nuclear arsenal to protect him from retaliation and so far, it is working.

 

[JLW]

Nobody should want an escalation of this war.

NATO is in a tough position.

Do nothing, and Russia and China, as well, will see it as weakness on the part of the West, and, as we know from history, perceptions of weakness only encourage your adversaries.

Do too much or send troops into Ukraine and you risk WWIII.

I think NATO and the US are handling it was well as can be expected.

 

[jwoodie]

Should NATO have attacked the USSR after Chernobyl?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Nobody should want an expansion of this war.

NATO is in a tough position.

Do nothing, and Russia and China, as well, will see it as weakness on the part of the West, and, thus the end result may be even greater and wider conflict.

Do too much or send troops into Ukraine and you risk WIII.

I think NATO and the US are handling it was well as can be expected.

At the rate Putin is escalating this, it will be a world war in very short order. Where do we draw the line on his actions? Our posture on OIL in the US and continuing to buy it from him is enabling him. We do not have much more to punish him with and the point of no return is very close.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Should NATO have attacked the USSR after Chernobyl?

At that time, we didn't know the effects. Today they are known. Two very different scenarios.

 

[JLW]

At the rate Putin is escalating this, it will be a world war in very short order. Where do we draw the line on his actions? Our posture on OIL in the US and continuing to buy it from him is enabling him. We do not have much more to punish him with and the point of no return is very close.

You’re right. These are very perilous times. The line at this point is to keep NATO out of the Ukraine conflict. But who knows what Putin will do as the Russian economy collapses or as the Russian people become more restive due to economic hardship. Desperation knows no bounds. The West is straddling a fine line here. Putin is increasingly an irrational actor.

 

[1srelluc]

The last I checked only 31% of the American people think we should get involved in the troubles in the Ukraine.

That 31% said the U.S. should provide supplies/weapons and less than 15% those folks thought advisors should be sent to train them up on how to use them.

Most Americans want a solution by diplomatic means only and want no involvement in the troubles other than that.

Americans see most types of involvement there as a lose-lose situation.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The last I checked only 31% of the American people think we should get involved in the troubles in the Ukraine.

That 31% said the U.S. should provide supplies/weapons and less than 15% those folks thought advisors should be sent to train them up on how to use them.

Most Americans want a solution by diplomatic means only and want no involvement in the troubles other than that.

Americans see most types of involvement there as a lose-lose situation.

If Putin showers the EU with radiation, watch what happens then. We are on a tight rope and Putin aims to cut it.

 

[1srelluc]

If Putin showers the EU with radiation, watch what happens then. We are on a tight rope and Putin aims to cut it.

I'm 4860 miles away....Don't care.

 

[Billy_Bob]

And just when you think it cannot get worse, Putin threatens nuclear retaliation for crashing his economy crying those sanctions are an act of war.... Putin is unstable and paranoid... If his own countrymen don't take him out soon, he just might start a nuclear war.

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin's attack on the nuclear plant should worry everyone on earth.

Let's play this strategy out...

Putin makes most of Europe uninhabitable with radiation. IE; Chernobyl X 6. Putin then takes possession of the land that these people flee from. No fighting involved. BAM RUISSA is again the landowner of the region. RUSSIA is again whole...

Due to fallout propagation, in fifty years most of the land will again be usable as radiation levels drop. Putin has rebuilt Mother Russia and did not have to take lands by force as the people flee the radiation clouds and fall out from the Nuclear Meltdowns (6 of them in this facility). Now there are many multiple reactor plants in Ukraine. Hitting any of them can result in this outcome.

Anyone who thinks Putin is not capable of this has not thought the strategy through. He would lay waste to US and NATO allied nations through his actions in Ukraine. This attack should invoke Article 5 of the NATO alliance IMHO. When Putin attacked that nuclear plant, he attacked all of Europe.

Winds blow to the East this time of year until basically August/September in that part of the world. So it would just blow into Russia. Seems like that would be a horrible strategy. It much more likely that he can now control the electricity in Ukraine and use it to subjugate the populous.

 

[peacefan]

Putin's attack on the nuclear plant should worry everyone on earth.

Let's play this strategy out...

Putin makes most of Europe uninhabitable with radiation. IE; Chernobyl X 6. Putin then takes possession of the land that these people flee from. No fighting involved. BAM RUISSA is again the landowner of the region. RUSSIA is again whole...

Due to fallout propagation, in fifty years most of the land will again be usable as radiation levels drop. Putin has rebuilt Mother Russia and did not have to take lands by force as the people flee the radiation clouds and fall out from the Nuclear Meltdowns (6 of them in this facility). Now there are many multiple reactor plants in Ukraine. Hitting any of them can result in this outcome.

Anyone who thinks Putin is not capable of this has not thought the strategy through. He would lay waste to US and NATO allied nations through his actions in Ukraine. This attack should invoke Article 5 of the NATO alliance IMHO. When Putin attacked that nuclear plant, he attacked all of Europe.

aside from the fact that later in this thread, someone whom i have no reason not to believe claims that the winds blow into Russia this time of year, until September or so....

Putin made a military calculation, and he was already committed to the Ukraine invasion when the west threatened him with severe sanctions.
Now he's a rat stuck on a sinking ship (Russia).

But when it comes to the question of current and near- and mid-term military abilities : it is *clear* the Ukranians would rather give up their nuclear energy facilities one by one, with minimal fighting, rather than see a melt-down of a nuclear reactor, let alone a multi-reactor facitlity. That would make their country uninhabitable for the next 100 years or so.

So you're wrong here. We *must* *NOT* invoke article 5. Putin is a loose cannon, an elderly KGB agent whose lost his wits now that his oligarchs are being targetted by sanctions (he's had to resort to WW3-nuclear-variant threats multiple times now), and it's best to avoid even one massive bomb going off in Ukraine (the current focal point), or civilian opposition in Ukraine getting crushed with poison gas or cluster bombs, than it is to try and save a NON-NATO member. Sorry, Zalensky. i really am. we'll do all we can for your people, but your decision not to let men leave the country if they want to, was a bad one. For the rest, you only made small mistakes like blaming NATO for civilian casualties if we do not treat you like a member state. i know, you know, a Churchill type leader has few options but to resort to such cries of desperation when facing a military machine as superior as the Russians', but try to take your defeat with grace, and exit the country. Go into exile. It's MUCH better for your people, and it would end the war.

This is exactly what my countrymen and women did in WW2 against the might of the German army : resist, but only using volunteer forces.

(someone please pass this along to the Zalensky team, please)