Public schools

[flaja]

National Education Standards (NEST) Schools

a. Establishment
Congress shall enact legislation whereby the association of the parents or legal guardians of X% of students attending a public school, that has previously received federal money, may establish a NEST school

b. In order to receive an appropriation by Congress a NEST school shall by obligated to:
(1) Have within each calendar year five nine-week grading terms, each consisting of no less than forty days of instruction
(2) Have eighty percent of its students score at least eighty percent on each of the exams established for the national curriculum or comply with eighty per cent of the evaluation requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences for every subject and every grade for which the school provides instruction
(3) Make all of the school's facilities available to the general public during non-school hours providing that such access does not disrupt the operation of the school.
(4) Prominently display the flag of the United States in all classrooms, offices and assembly rooms within their respective facilities
(5) Require all students, instructional staff, administrative staff and employees to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States on each day of every academic term prior to beginning classes
(6) Acknowledge the Star-Spangled Banner no less than one time in each week of every academic term
(7) Observe a one-minute moment of silence on each day of every academic term prior to beginning classes
(8) Issue a report to the parents or legal guardians of each student enrolled at the end of each academic term, and such report shall note the student's grade for all subjects according to the percentage of the learning objectives and requirements, which the student has attained

c. Congress may not appropriate money for any NEST school that:
(1) Provides or otherwise distributes any birth control devise or substance to any student or any other person
(2) Advertises any product or service that is offered for sale for profit to any NEST student or to the general public
(3) Prohibits any enrolled student from practicing religion or displaying any religious symbol providing that such practice and display does not disrupt the operation of the school as determined by the concurrence of two-thirds of the school's board of directors
(4) Sells or otherwise distributes any food product that does not comply with the nutritional requirements established by the United States Department of Agriculture
(5) Denies admission to any student who complies with the NEST student progression requirements for all grades and subjects which would be required of any student who had been previously enrolled in the NEST school in order to insure that the NEST school may not deny admission to a student simply because he was not previously enrolled in a NEST school

d. Student Progression
Each NEST school student who fails to achieve a score of seventy-five per cent on the exams and evaluation requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences for any courses within any academic term must repeat those courses and obtain a score of seventy-five percent before being allowed to take any additional courses.

e. Board of Directors
(1) Establishment
The Parents and legal guardians of any student who is enrolled in a NEST school shall constitute the board of directors for that school.
(2) The board of directors of each NEST school shall have the authority to:
i. Conduct lotteries under the regulation of Congress and when lotteries are operated by the government of the state wherein the school is located, to raise revenue to provide for the maintenance of their school facility, provide for the procurement of materials which are recommended by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences, provide compensation for instructors and administrators who comply with the requirements of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and to otherwise provide for the day to day operation of their school
ii. Employ instructional and administrative staff who complies with the regulations established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences
iii. Direct with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members the school to establish any religious display in a common area or observe any religious ceremony
iv. Implement disciplinary standards and procedures with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members
v. Appropriate revenue provided by the federal government to provide for the maintenance of their school facility, provide for the procurement of materials which are recommended by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences, provide compensation for instructors and administrators who comply with the requirements of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and to otherwise provide for the day to day operation of their school

f. Parental Rights
The parents and guardians of any student enrolled in a NEST school shall have the power to request an alternative activity or assignment for their child should they choose to exempt their child from any requirement of the NEST curriculum or from any NEST school activity for religious reasons and the power to enroll their child in any NEST school located within their county of residence providing that students shall be enrolled on the basis of a selection lottery in the event that a NEST school lacks sufficient capacity to enroll all applicants.

h. Accreditation
The federal government will accredit all schools that maintain NEST standards. All NEST exams shall be made available to any student enrolled in a home education program or a private school and the federal government may accredit home education programs and private schools in a manner consistent with the accreditation granted to NEST schools.
i. Federal Funding
(1) Matching Funds
i. Parental
Congress shall appropriate to each NEST school an amount of money equal to the amount appropriated by the parents or legal guardians of the students enrolled in the school.
ii. Government
Congress shall appropriate for each student enrolled in a NEST school, an amount of money equal to the combined per student appropriations made for students enrolled in public school by the state and local authorities of the state wherein the NEST school is located.
(2) Teacher Salary
Congress shall guarantee a minimum annual salary of fifty thousand dollars for any teacher who complies with the requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and who has been employed at the same NEST school for a period of five years.

 

[Annie]

Looking for a link, did I miss it?

National Education Standards (NEST) Schools

a. Establishment
Congress shall enact legislation whereby the association of the parents or legal guardians of X% of students attending a public school, that has previously received federal money, may establish a NEST school

b. In order to receive an appropriation by Congress a NEST school shall by obligated to:
(1) Have within each calendar year five nine-week grading terms, each consisting of no less than forty days of instruction
(2) Have eighty percent of its students score at least eighty percent on each of the exams established for the national curriculum or comply with eighty per cent of the evaluation requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences for every subject and every grade for which the school provides instruction
(3) Make all of the school's facilities available to the general public during non-school hours providing that such access does not disrupt the operation of the school.
(4) Prominently display the flag of the United States in all classrooms, offices and assembly rooms within their respective facilities
(5) Require all students, instructional staff, administrative staff and employees to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States on each day of every academic term prior to beginning classes
(6) Acknowledge the Star-Spangled Banner no less than one time in each week of every academic term
(7) Observe a one-minute moment of silence on each day of every academic term prior to beginning classes
(8) Issue a report to the parents or legal guardians of each student enrolled at the end of each academic term, and such report shall note the student's grade for all subjects according to the percentage of the learning objectives and requirements, which the student has attained

c. Congress may not appropriate money for any NEST school that:
(1) Provides or otherwise distributes any birth control devise or substance to any student or any other person
(2) Advertises any product or service that is offered for sale for profit to any NEST student or to the general public
(3) Prohibits any enrolled student from practicing religion or displaying any religious symbol providing that such practice and display does not disrupt the operation of the school as determined by the concurrence of two-thirds of the school's board of directors
(4) Sells or otherwise distributes any food product that does not comply with the nutritional requirements established by the United States Department of Agriculture
(5) Denies admission to any student who complies with the NEST student progression requirements for all grades and subjects which would be required of any student who had been previously enrolled in the NEST school in order to insure that the NEST school may not deny admission to a student simply because he was not previously enrolled in a NEST school

d. Student Progression
Each NEST school student who fails to achieve a score of seventy-five per cent on the exams and evaluation requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences for any courses within any academic term must repeat those courses and obtain a score of seventy-five percent before being allowed to take any additional courses.

e. Board of Directors
(1) Establishment
The Parents and legal guardians of any student who is enrolled in a NEST school shall constitute the board of directors for that school.
(2) The board of directors of each NEST school shall have the authority to:
i. Conduct lotteries under the regulation of Congress and when lotteries are operated by the government of the state wherein the school is located, to raise revenue to provide for the maintenance of their school facility, provide for the procurement of materials which are recommended by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences, provide compensation for instructors and administrators who comply with the requirements of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and to otherwise provide for the day to day operation of their school
ii. Employ instructional and administrative staff who complies with the regulations established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences
iii. Direct with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members the school to establish any religious display in a common area or observe any religious ceremony
iv. Implement disciplinary standards and procedures with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members
v. Appropriate revenue provided by the federal government to provide for the maintenance of their school facility, provide for the procurement of materials which are recommended by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences, provide compensation for instructors and administrators who comply with the requirements of the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and to otherwise provide for the day to day operation of their school

f. Parental Rights
The parents and guardians of any student enrolled in a NEST school shall have the power to request an alternative activity or assignment for their child should they choose to exempt their child from any requirement of the NEST curriculum or from any NEST school activity for religious reasons and the power to enroll their child in any NEST school located within their county of residence providing that students shall be enrolled on the basis of a selection lottery in the event that a NEST school lacks sufficient capacity to enroll all applicants.

h. Accreditation
The federal government will accredit all schools that maintain NEST standards. All NEST exams shall be made available to any student enrolled in a home education program or a private school and the federal government may accredit home education programs and private schools in a manner consistent with the accreditation granted to NEST schools.
i. Federal Funding
(1) Matching Funds
i. Parental
Congress shall appropriate to each NEST school an amount of money equal to the amount appropriated by the parents or legal guardians of the students enrolled in the school.
ii. Government
Congress shall appropriate for each student enrolled in a NEST school, an amount of money equal to the combined per student appropriations made for students enrolled in public school by the state and local authorities of the state wherein the NEST school is located.
(2) Teacher Salary
Congress shall guarantee a minimum annual salary of fifty thousand dollars for any teacher who complies with the requirements established by the National Academy of Arts and Sciences and who has been employed at the same NEST school for a period of five years.

 

[Gunny]

Looking for a link, did I miss it?

At a glance, I think this is his personal idea, since no such document exists that I am aware of.

 

[Mr. P]

And I thought nt250 had left the room.:tongue1:

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

i. Results

(1) Cost per student shall go up no less than 10% annually
(2) Student literacy shall be observed to decline, in axccordance with previous experience with increasing federal control over schools
(3) Educators and bureaucrats shall observe point 2 but ignore point 1, and blame underfunding
(4) American schools must maintain their existing higher per-student costs compared to no less than 20 other industrialized nations while simultaneously performing worse, as is the case now; lawmakers and bureaucrats shall not make mention of this. The same shall hold true for any comparison to private schools and homeschooled children.
(5) Teachers unions will only need to lobby one legislature, as opposed to 50; as such, they shall be required to contribute more to federal congressmen.
(6) Knee-jerk government centralization is the answer to all problems with education; as such, think tanks and exploratory comittes shall begin discussing the needs for a UN run school system
(7) New math, self-esteem courses, and non-phonics reading systems shall be mandatory. History, economics, and science shall be de-emphasized.

 

[no1tovote4]

LOL @ Bigmeat!

 

[flaja]

Purely my own idea based on my personal experience as a private school teacher. I cannot say that all private schools are bad. But, all but a few private schools here in my part of Florida are bad and will never be a worthwhile alternative to public schools no matter how bad the public schools may be.

I no longer support vouchers because, in a state like Florida, private schools determine their own curriculum and teacher qualifications. And as a result I’ve never met a single private school student who could read up to the grade level appropriate for his age. Furthermore, I once had a class of 7th graders (that included a 9th grader) that could not do long division, which is a 4th grade skill in public school here. I lost my first classroom job because I refused to give good grades just to keep the parents happy. Most private schools here operate without libraries or computer labs or science lab supplies. At my last classroom job I was given 2 class sets of science textbooks to teach 65 students. Students at this school were not allowed to take school books home and I was not allowed to assign homework.

 

[Annie]

Purely my own idea based on my personal experience as a private school teacher. I cannot say that all private schools are bad. But, all but a few private schools here in my part of Florida are bad and will never be a worthwhile alternative to public schools no matter how bad the public schools may be.

I no longer support vouchers because, in a state like Florida, private schools determine their own curriculum and teacher qualifications. And as a result I’ve never met a single private school student who could read up to the grade level appropriate for his age. Furthermore, I once had a class of 7th graders (that included a 9th grader) that could not do long division, which is a 4th grade skill in public school here. I lost my first classroom job because I refused to give good grades just to keep the parents happy. Most private schools here operate without libraries or computer labs or science lab supplies. At my last classroom job I was given 2 class sets of science textbooks to teach 65 students. Students at this school were not allowed to take school books home and I was not allowed to assign homework.

Up North, the story may be different. I know it is in Illinois, coming from a private school educator. Across the board, for the most part private schools out perform public schools, when the locale is held constant. Private schools in the city, out perform public schools in the city. Same with suburbs and rural, with locale held constant.

Here the private schools exceed the state standards, by at least 2 grade levels.

Do I think vouchers should be available in suburbs? Not unless parents are facing economic hardships. Our tuition is now near 4k per year, with one student. Public school average for grammar school s†udent, 12K. Which is better for the economy?

 

[Mr.Conley]

I second Kathianne. I attended both public and private schools during my secondary education, and the private schools vastly outperformed the public. Then again, my private school was up in New England, and the public school was down in Alabama. Southern schools tend to suck.

I think the best system is probably a fusion of sorts. I support the idea of vouchers, but I believe the government should regulate which private schools are and are not eligible for the funding based on performance.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I second Kathianne. I attended both public and private schools during my secondary education, and the private schools vastly outperformed the public. Then again, my private school was up in New England, and the public school was down in Alabama. Southern schools tend to suck.

I think the best system is probably a fusion of sorts. I support the idea of vouchers, but I believe the government should regulate which private schools are and are not eligible for the funding based on performance.

There should be performance results. But it should be a non profit school assessment organization which PARENTS can consult. Screw the government regarding this matter. Think Consumer Reports

 

[Annie]

I second Kathianne. I attended both public and private schools during my secondary education, and the private schools vastly outperformed the public. Then again, my private school was up in New England, and the public school was down in Alabama. Southern schools tend to suck.

I think the best system is probably a fusion of sorts. I support the idea of vouchers, but I believe the government should regulate which private schools are and are not eligible for the funding based on performance.

Thanks. I'm guessing here, based only on cousins and travels. The schools in the South seem to suck, whether the kids go public or private. My cousins went private and they are not that 'educated.' Sadly, they all, (11 of them), graduated from LSU, I know a favorite on this board. I'm assuming those I deal with in restaurants and retail in the South are products of the public schools, which may certainly demonstrate I'm making an ass out of myself, since that is a huge 'assumption.'

Around here, suburban Chicago, any private school that wishes to be here the next year had better out perform the public schools, and be able to prove it. I'll skip my school, as it's in a 'less wealthy' part of DuPage County.

I sent my kids to private schools when I was married and through the divorce. The schools they were at performed at minimum 2.5 grade levels above. The public schools at 1.9 grade levels above-in each case, lowest score. In both cases reading was 3 years or more above grade level, at 5th grade and higher, with private schools leading.

While I live in a 'very educated' and 'high income' area, the same types of ratios hold true in the city and rural areas. However, all parents have to pay for the public schools, only †hose with means can put their children in the private schools. That is why I favor vouchers.

With that said, if parents are going to take vouchers, I think THEY should understand that a contributing factor to results of private is the discipline thing. The discipline thing is based on standards of responsibility, much different than state standards. How to reconcile? I'm not sure. Honestly.

I'm not for converting anyone to any religion, yet I can't see good religion based schools giving up their standards, for vouchers. It's the reason for the most part that the Catholic schools have traditionally rejected the idea.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Thanks. I'm guessing here, based only on cousins and travels. The schools in the South seem to suck, whether the kids go public or private. My cousins went private and they are not that 'educated.' Sadly, they all, (11 of them), graduated from LSU, I know a favorite on this board. I'm assuming those I deal with in restaurants and retail in the South are products of the public schools, which may certainly demonstrate I'm making an ass out of myself, since that is a huge 'assumption.'

Around here, suburban Chicago, any private school that wishes to be here the next year had better out perform the public schools, and be able to prove it. I'll skip my school, as it's in a 'less wealthy' part of DuPage County.

I sent my kids to private schools when I was married and through the divorce. The schools they were at performed at minimum 2.5 grade levels above. The public schools at 1.9 grade levels above-in each case, lowest score. In both cases reading was 3 years or more above grade level, at 5th grade and higher, with private schools leading.

While I live in a 'very educated' and 'high income' area, the same types of ratios hold true in the city and rural areas. However, all parents have to pay for the public schools, only †hose with means can put their children in the private schools. That is why I favor vouchers.

With that said, if parents are going to take vouchers, I think THEY should understand that a contributing factor to results of private is the discipline thing. The discipline thing is based on standards of responsibility, much different than state standards. How to reconcile? I'm not sure. Honestly.

I'm not for converting anyone to any religion, yet I can't see good religion based schools giving up their standards, for vouchers. It's the reason for the most part that the Catholic schools have traditionally rejected the idea.

Owww... LSU. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Great football team, but that's not what I look for in a school. But I agree with you: southern publics are the worst schools in this country outside of the inner city, and not by much. That's my experience at least.

I agree with your 3rd paragraph as well. My opinion is that student responsiblity and motivation are the two single largest determining factors of student success. You can put a student in the best school in the world, but if he doesn't want to learn then nothing is going to happen, and I don't know of anyway to change that. I don't see how vouchers could help. I just think they could help the best students get to the best schools.

 

[no1tovote4]

Owww... LSU. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Great football team, but that's not what I look for in a school. But I agree with you: southern publics are the worst schools in this country outside of the inner city, and not by much. That's my experience at least.

I agree with your 3rd paragraph as well. My opinion is that student responsiblity and motivation are the two single largest determining factors of student success. You can put a student in the best school in the world, but if he doesn't want to learn then nothing is going to happen, and I don't know of anyway to change that. I don't see how vouchers could help. I just think they could help the best students get to the best schools.

Those who would use vouchers would be those who insured their children had a healthy respect for education to begin with.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Those who would use vouchers would be those who insured their children had a healthy respect for education to begin with.

I know:

I agree with your 3rd paragraph as well. My opinion is that student responsiblity and motivation are the two single largest determining factors of student success. You can put a student in the best school in the world, but if he doesn't want to learn then nothing is going to happen, and I don't know of anyway to change that. I don't see how vouchers could help. I just think they could help the best students get to the best schools.

 

[Annie]

Owww... LSU. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Great football team, but that's not what I look for in a school. But I agree with you: southern publics are the worst schools in this country outside of the inner city, and not by much. That's my experience at least.

I agree with your 3rd paragraph as well. My opinion is that student responsiblity and motivation are the two single largest determining factors of student success. You can put a student in the best school in the world, but if he doesn't want to learn then nothing is going to happen, and I don't know of anyway to change that. I don't see how vouchers could help. I just think they could help the best students get to the best schools.

Again, I'm not sold on how the private schools, especially religious based can accomodate those that are not of that religion. I don't care if we are speaking of Catholic, (by far the largest number of private), or Lutheran, Jewish, Christian, or Islamic. In any case, the teaching of academics is infused with the religious, more or less regarding the teacher. For instance; today in 6th grade ancient history, I was introducing ancient India. One would think Hinduism/Buddhism. Not so this group. Went for monotheism vs. polytheism. Challenged the 'big 3' for monotheism: Christianity, Judaism, Islam. Why isn't Satanism also considered monotheistic? I stammered about the faces of Satan and have a call into the pastor-will go to the bishop if necessary.

As the above illustrates, to take religion out of the curriculum, for vouchers sake, would probably screw up the thinking that leads to the test scores, with no teaching to the tests.

 

[flaja]

I second Kathianne. I attended both public and private schools during my secondary education, and the private schools vastly outperformed the public. Then again, my private school was up in New England, and the public school was down in Alabama. Southern schools tend to suck.

I graduated from a college prep high school. When I enrolled in the 7th grade the school had something like 1200 7th graders. My graduating class had only 76 students, most of whom enrolled after the 7th grade. I took 5 AP classes (but only 3 of the AP exams). My graduating class earned something like $1.2 million in scholarships. My school was a public magnet school. On a student for student basis my public school likely out-performed every single private school in the county- including the most expensive one where tuition, room and board (for the boarding school students) can run now you around $30,000 before you graduate.

I think the best system is probably a fusion of sorts. I support the idea of vouchers, but I believe the government should regulate which private schools are and are not eligible for the funding based on performance.

This is what I am aiming for. I want national academic standards, but with localized day-to-day management.

BTW: For several years now Florida has offered government scholarships to any student who has spent at least a year in public school and has been labeled as being learning disabled. Private schools here take the money and run. These learning disabled students seldom, if ever, get the one-on-one teaching they need and the private schools seldom care to hire teachers that have the necessary training and experience for them to teach learning disabled students. The solution to public schools with low standards is not private schools with no standards. But yet libertarians and the rabid right balks at any attempt to regulate private schools.

 

[Annie]

I graduated from a college prep high school. When I enrolled in the 7th grade the school had something like 1200 7th graders. My graduating class had only 76 students, most of whom enrolled after the 7th grade. I took 5 AP classes (but only 3 of the AP exams). My graduating class earned something like $1.2 million in scholarships. My school was a public magnet school. On a student for student basis my public school likely out-performed every single private school in the county- including the most expensive one where tuition, room and board (for the boarding school students) can run now you around $30,000 before you graduate.



This is what I am aiming for. I want national academic standards, but with localized day-to-day management.

BTW: For several years now Florida has offered government scholarships to any student who has spent at least a year in public school and has been labeled as being learning disabled. Private schools here take the money and run. These learning disabled students seldom, if ever, get the one-on-one teaching they need and the private schools seldom care to hire teachers that have the necessary training and experience for them to teach learning disabled students. The solution to public schools with low standards is not private schools with no standards. But yet libertarians and the rabid right balks at any attempt to regulate private schools.

You point out whether intentional or not, the weakness of private schooling. Support services. They are not the correct venue for gifted or LD students-of any stripe. The support for the general education teachers isn't there, not to mention the lack of aids, etc. to help the teacher deal with the exception.

On the other hand, if your kid IS bright the private schools will help them shine, because of the rigors they impose. It's the reason a small school like mine, currently has alumni on full scholarship at Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. Not to mention U of I, and U of W Madison.

 

[no1tovote4]

You point out whether intentional or not, the weakness of private schooling. Support services. They are not the correct venue for gifted or LD students-of any stripe. The support for the general education teachers isn't there, not to mention the lack of aids, etc. to help the teacher deal with the exception.

On the other hand, if your kid IS bright the private schools will help them shine, because of the rigors they impose. It's the reason a small school like mine, currently has alumni on full scholarship at Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. Not to mention U of I, and U of W Madison.

This depends entirely on the School. Denver Academy is a private school specifically for the LD. My wife went there and got a fantastic education. Every teacher is very qualified and has been trained for this specific type of education issues.

 

[Annie]

This depends entirely on the School. Denver Academy is a private school specifically for the LD. My wife went there and got a fantastic education. Every teacher is very qualified and has been trained for this specific type of education issues.

Agreed. But private for a purpose, not general educa†ion. wha† is the tuition? Well above bo†h private and public gen ed I'd assume?

 

[Mr.Conley]

I graduated from a college prep high school. When I enrolled in the 7th grade the school had something like 1200 7th graders. My graduating class had only 76 students, most of whom enrolled after the 7th grade. I took 5 AP classes (but only 3 of the AP exams). My graduating class earned something like $1.2 million in scholarships. My school was a public magnet school. On a student for student basis my public school likely out-performed every single private school in the county- including the most expensive one where tuition, room and board (for the boarding school students) can run now you around $30,000 before you graduate.

I don't know. A lot of the top boarding schools are really up there, and they aren't just for the elite anymore. I know Andover has average SSAT scores in the 96th percentile, 1400+ SAT averages, and sends 1/3rd of the student body to the Ivy League + MIT and Stanford. I doubt that there really is a "top" high school, but don't discount the boarding schools. They're not just bastions for the elite.

BTW, you didn't happen to go to Thomas Jefferson down in Virginia did you?

This is what I am aiming for. I want national academic standards, but with localized day-to-day management.

BTW: For several years now Florida has offered government scholarships to any student who has spent at least a year in public school and has been labeled as being learning disabled. Private schools here take the money and run. These learning disabled students seldom, if ever, get the one-on-one teaching they need and the private schools seldom care to hire teachers that have the necessary training and experience for them to teach learning disabled students. The solution to public schools with low standards is not private schools with no standards. But yet libertarians and the rabid right balks at any attempt to regulate private schools.

I understand what you're saying, and agree. Private schools aren't equiped to help the mentally disabled. Only publics and "real" specialty schools (such as the ones for autistics) can really get that job done. Most privates are best for the above average to gifted student, not the disabled. It's a matter of priority. The public schools can still take of the disabled, and, depending on who does a better job, the publics or the privates can attend to gifted students.