Proud day for America: Homeless only exist if you can see them.

[koshergrl]

They tried wholesale institutionalization, and it didn't work.

I don't know about wholesale but it did work for those put out of harm's way. Reagan got the feds out of it but the states need to pick up the slack. Public safety should be a priority.

It worked for those with severe illnesses, but what about those that could deal with being free?

The vast majority of people incarcerated in mental institutions absolutely 100 percent belonged there.

That's not to say some people were wrongly diagnosed or locked up for no good reason, and that terrible atrocities never took place. They did take place...they still take place. You'll never find a group more demented and psychopathic than psychiatrists and mental health workers. We shouldn't listen to anything those nutjobs say.

But when a family or a community comes to the determination that a person is incapable of caring for himself or herself, or they determine that person is actually a THREAT to himself or others, they should have the authority to restrain that person, even if the person hasn't done anything YET.

That woman who tossed her kid off the bridge here in Oregon...EVERYBODY knew she was a lunatic. She knew she was crazy. Her case workers knew she was crazy. The cop who SAW HER CARRYING HER 5 YEAR OLD ON THE BRIDGE IN NASTY WEATHER probably knew she was crazy.

So why the HELL wasn't she locked up? She was institutionalized at least once in the past that I know of. Why did she even have access to her kid, let alone custody?

Crazy people are a MENACE. That doesn't mean we should treat them without compassion or with cruelty, but it's foolish to force integration with dangerous people on communities in ways they aren't open to. Nobody wants to take their kids to a park where there are homeless people shooting up in the bathrooms and crapping in the bushes.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Then they should find someone to support them or find a job (I know, that's harsh).

Who to support them? Not everyone has family, or family with the means to support someone with mental issue. Obviously someone with bad enough problems isn't going to be able to hold a job, dirty muttering crazy dude from corner of 14k & K doesn't interview well.

So what then?

 

[Iceweasel]

Then they should find someone to support them or find a job (I know, that's harsh).

Who to support them? Not everyone has family, or family with the means to support someone with mental issue. Obviously someone with bad enough problems isn't going to be able to hold a job, dirty muttering crazy dude from corner of 14k & K doesn't interview well.

So what then?

I answered that. If they are that loopy, keep them off the streets. Priorities are screwed up so they run amok.

 

[Katzndogz]

It is unconstitutional to lock someone up against their will if they have committed no crime. The ACLU said so.

We must wait until they commit a crime. Then it is mostly too late.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I answered that. If they are that loopy, keep them off the streets. Priorities are screwed up so they run amok.

There is a lot of grey area between can't hold a job and needs to be locked up for the safety of society.

 

[Iceweasel]

There is a lot of grey area between can't hold a job and needs to be locked up for the safety of society.

True, and it would need to be done on a case by case basis. But if he can't hold a job he needs to be supported by a volunteer on their property. That's why I favor no loitering laws.

 

[SteadyMercury]

So we're back to relying on these mysterious volunteers who will donate their time and property to support some random homeless guy who can't hold a job. It isn't a reasonable solution to just hope this army of volunteers shows up, what if there aren't any?

 

[Iceweasel]

So we're back to relying on these mysterious volunteers who will donate their time and property to support some random homeless guy who can't hold a job. It isn't a reasonable solution to just hope this army of volunteers shows up, what if there aren't any?

If they can't hold a job they need the help I mentioned. If they don't want a job I don't care what happens to them. They can live at your house.

 

[SteadyMercury]

So basically you have no solution.

 

[Iceweasel]

So basically you have no solution.

I do, try reading. They can live with you. Pass loitering laws and put the nuts in storage. If they can work, they need to support themselves. What happens after that isn't my obligation.

 

[Care4all]

Even food for the homeless has to meet federal nutritional guidelines.

 

[depotoo]

You see, the problem is the hospitals stabilize them, testify before court, they are stabilized, court orders them freed, but takes your meds. They don't because they don't feel normal. Wash, rinse, repeat. And families pray they won't hurt themselves or others in the meantime. If they even have contact with them.

So basically you have no solution.

I do, try reading. They can live with you. Pass loitering laws and put the nuts in storage. If they can work, they need to support themselves. What happens after that isn't my obligation.

 

[Care4all]

one of my favorite guiding passages in the Bible of what is 'right' and what is not.

Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[SteadyMercury]

I do, try reading. They can live with you.

You don't. You've basically said that some volunteers need to step up and use their property and resources to handle this, and if this mysterious army of volunteers doesn't materialize it isn't your problem and you don't care.

Not caring is fine, who gives a shit what you care about, but let's not pretend you've come up with a solution.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

They tried wholesale institutionalization, and it didn't work.

I don't know about wholesale but it did work for those put out of harm's way. Reagan got the feds out of it but the states need to pick up the slack. Public safety should be a priority.

It worked for those with severe illnesses, but what about those that could deal with being free?

The vast majority of people incarcerated in mental institutions absolutely 100 percent belonged there.

That's not to say some people were wrongly diagnosed or locked up for no good reason, and that terrible atrocities never took place. They did take place...they still take place. You'll never find a group more demented and psychopathic than psychiatrists and mental health workers. We shouldn't listen to anything those nutjobs say.

But when a family or a community comes to the determination that a person is incapable of caring for himself or herself, or they determine that person is actually a THREAT to himself or others, they should have the authority to restrain that person, even if the person hasn't done anything YET.

That woman who tossed her kid off the bridge here in Oregon...EVERYBODY knew she was a lunatic. She knew she was crazy. Her case workers knew she was crazy. The cop who SAW HER CARRYING HER 5 YEAR OLD ON THE BRIDGE IN NASTY WEATHER probably knew she was crazy.

So why the HELL wasn't she locked up? She was institutionalized at least once in the past that I know of. Why did she even have access to her kid, let alone custody?

Crazy people are a MENACE. That doesn't mean we should treat them without compassion or with cruelty, but it's foolish to force integration with dangerous people on communities in ways they aren't open to. Nobody wants to take their kids to a park where there are homeless people shooting up in the bathrooms and crapping in the bushes.​

​

 

[koshergrl]

one of my favorite guiding passages in the Bible of what is 'right' and what is not.

Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

That's right. The people who think that other people don't do enough should provide shelter and food to these people.

Instead of trying to force others to do it.

 

[Iceweasel]

I do, try reading. They can live with you.

You don't. You've basically said that some volunteers need to step up and use their property and resources to handle this, and if this mysterious army of volunteers doesn't materialize it isn't your problem and you don't care.

Not caring is fine, who gives a shit what you care about, but let's not pretend you've come up with a solution.

I said you can't read and you proved it again. Go find other do-gooders and house the homeless and quit making idiotic demands on everyone else. You gives a shit about you, period?

 

[SteadyMercury]

I said you can't read and you proved it again. Go find other do-gooders and house the homeless and quit making idiotic demands on everyone else. You gives a shit about you, period?

You haven't proven anything, what kind of retard thinks saying "find volunteers to take care of them, if not oh well" means they came up with a solution? Oh yeah, IceWeasel.

And speaking of not being able to read, I've never claimed to be a do-gooder (I'm not offering to take care of them) and I certainly haven't made any idiotic demands on anyone else (unlike you and your ridiculous volunteer army solution).

Hey I've got a solution for solution for the border control issue... we'll just use Ice Weasel brilliance and say we just need an army of volunteers to link hands across California, Arizona, and Texas. Volunteers for everything! Easy peasy.

 

[Iceweasel]

I said you can't read and you proved it again. Go find other do-gooders and house the homeless and quit making idiotic demands on everyone else. You gives a shit about you, period?

You haven't proven anything, what kind of retard thinks saying "find volunteers to take care of them, if not oh well" means they came up with a solution? Oh yeah, IceWeasel.

And speaking of not being able to read, I've never claimed to be a do-gooder (I'm not offering to take care of them) and I certainly haven't made any idiotic demands on anyone else (unlike you and your ridiculous volunteer army solution).

Hey I've got a solution for solution for the border control issue... we'll just use Ice Weasel brilliance and say we just need an army of volunteers to link hands across California, Arizona, and Texas. Volunteers for everything! Easy peasy.

Why am I supposed to "prove something"? Proof is in the mind of the beholder for one thing. If I don't want deadbeats fucking up public areas that's my right. I don't need your approval. You want to take care of homeless? Then do so. Get them off the streets.

My solution is logical. Put those incapable of caring for themselves out of harm's way and let volunteers take care of the rest. Or they can bust their hump and make a living like most folks.

 

[bripat9643]

This has happened in West Palm Beach as well, and Dallas. I know there are cities in Ca and Wa doing the same.

it angers me.

What is embarrassing? The city passed ordinances, he violated them.

You didn't read the article fully.
He has tried to abide by the laws over and over so the city keeps passing new ordinances to make it basically impossible for him to do it.
This time they passed an ordinance that says he must also supply a bathroom.
The context/back story is this guy wants to feed them where they are - which just happens to be be in populated areas (imagine that)...and the city does not want him to feed them outdoors - better to feed them where people can't see it.
It is ridiculous.

Getting harassed by beggars all day angers me. When I was in San Francisco, I couldn't go to the bathroom without having to step over half a dozen of them, all with their hand out.