Zone1 Proof that Democracy is mathematically impossible

Robert W

Former Democrat but long term Republican.
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Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens. We all have the ability to vote on each and every issue that is tasked to Government. Think of it as you think of marriage. The husband and wife have equal voice in all family issues. If they allow one of the pair of parties to do all decisions, they are not following democracy. Assuming the wife or husband is in perfect agreement is proven wrong by simply looking at reasons for divorces. Even happy marriages do not always operate in happy harmony. This is my introduction to all here to democracy.
Others come at this with fully developed explanations. To help you all learn about this, this video will be helpful.

 
Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens. We all have the ability to vote on each and every issue that is tasked to Government. Think of it as you think of marriage. The husband and wife have equal voice in all family issues. If they allow one of the pair of parties to do all decisions, they are not following democracy. Assuming the wife or husband is in perfect agreement is proven wrong by simply looking at reasons for divorces. Even happy marriages do not always operate in happy harmony. This is my introduction to all here to democracy.
Others come at this with fully developed explanations. To help you all learn about this, this video will be helpful.


This country has never been a Democracy, so get that out of your mind. This is a Representative Republic, but what has happened, is that the Marxists back in the late 1990s decided that dumbing down America was a good thing, thus we ended up with the brown turd Obammy, Joe Bribem and a chance that a colored vagina will be running this country. Time for our Representatives to take back the country and actually be for the People, not themselves.

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Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens. We all have the ability to vote on each and every issue that is tasked to Government. Think of it as you think of marriage. The husband and wife have equal voice in all family issues. If they allow one of the pair of parties to do all decisions, they are not following democracy. Assuming the wife or husband is in perfect agreement is proven wrong by simply looking at reasons for divorces. Even happy marriages do not always operate in happy harmony. This is my introduction to all here to democracy.
Others come at this with fully developed explanations. To help you all learn about this, this video will be helpful.


my interpretation of this guy's thesis is NOT that democracy is "impossible,' but that there are several "flavors' of democracy, including our own.
 
I would say democracy is conceding power to elected officials. Whomever wins can proceed to making decisions based on being elected to that office and whatever laws or rules of said government. The elected official can also be removed from office based on rules of government.

Then when the next election comes up any elected official can be removed from office or continue in that office based on rules for how long they can be in office.

Of course if the elected official does not comply with what is the law then they can be removed but it is not easy.

Majority rule with one vote for every citizen who choses to vote.

Now equal voice can be nullified. It is nullified by like minded people who vote and believe in the same thing and can outnumber others who disagree.

So then it becomes a number game. Who has more team players?
 
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my interpretation of this guy's thesis is NOT that democracy is "impossible,' but that there are several "flavors' of democracy, including our own.
It virtually does not exist.
 
Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens. We all have the ability to vote on each and every issue that is tasked to Government. Think of it as you think of marriage. The husband and wife have equal voice in all family issues. If they allow one of the pair of parties to do all decisions, they are not following democracy. Assuming the wife or husband is in perfect agreement is proven wrong by simply looking at reasons for divorces. Even happy marriages do not always operate in happy harmony. This is my introduction to all here to democracy.
Others come at this with fully developed explanations. To help you all learn about this, this video will be helpful.


democracy is the train you ride to total government control because people are stupid,,
 
Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens.

It also means Mob Rule. In a pure democracy, the majority wins, period.

It is also a temporary state as democracies never last. All democracies eventually quickly morph into being an oligarchy.


 
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It also means Mob Rule. In a pure democracy, the majority wins, period.

It is also a temporary state as democracies never last. All democracies eventually quickly morph into being an oligarchy.



there has never been a "pure democracy" , at least on a national scale.

mob rule is best demonstrated by the mob on jan 6.
 
Democracy, like the notion of constitutional governance, is an illusion. That is very clearly demonstrated in the day to day functioning of government, especially so with the election of 2020
 
Hey there. I've been reading for a while and not posting, but here in the CDZ, I'll give it a shot. For background, I'm a historian and former history and poli sci teacher, with an MA in American History from a well-regarded military university. I'm an Independent and live in a swing state. None of what I'm about to say is a secret; you all should have learned it in high school at the latest.

A lot of people here are using the terms 'democracy' and 'pure democracy' interchangeably, but they're not the same thing. 'Democracy' does not literally mean that we're all citizens; it literally means 'government by the people.' It means that the power to make change in a society rests with the people, as opposed to an autocracy (power lies in one person) or a theocracy (power lies in the church) or many others.
One type of democracy is a 'pure democracy' (also called a direct or an Athenian democracy). In this model, every member of the electorate gets together to vote on every motion. Obviously, even in our earliest days that would have been beyond impractical, so we have never been a direct democracy.

Another type of democracy is a 'representative democracy,' where we each elect a representative from our area to go to the capital city and cast votes to represent our area's wishes on each motion. That's what we have always had, where (on the federal level) we each elect one Representative and two Senators, plus a varying number of Electors, to represent our wishes in Washington. We have a representative democracy, which is a democracy, so yes, we are definitely a democracy.

Separate but related to all of that, we are also a republic. 'Republic' comes from the words for literally a "public thing," meaning our government is owned by us, the people, rather than being owned by a monarch. In a monarchy, executive actions are done in the monarch's name, laws are passed in their name, and judgments are made in their name, but we don't do that. In our republic, the Chief Executive derives his authority from the office of the President as elected by the people, and their powers are limited only to the Executive. The legislators and Justices similarly derive their authority from their offices and their powers are limited to their branch. That's what it means that we are a republic; lots of people have limited power to do just their one job, rather than all of the power being derived from one ruler. We are also a republic.

In the modern context, it is difficult to imagine a government that is a republic without also being a representative democracy, and vice versa, so in practice the terms are basically interchangeable. The upshot is this: The American system is, and has always been, both a republic and a representative democracy.

A final note: The insistence that we are 'not a democracy' is almost always traceable back to someone who wants to weaken our democracy. It's not always malicious, but there is always someone out there saying it who is. They are very good at making it sound convincing, but don't fall for it. Your high school US Government teacher already solved this mystery, years ago.
 
This country has never been a Democracy, so get that out of your mind. This is a Representative Republic,
And a democracy. It's both. The USA is a democratic republic. It's not complicated.

Those who shout "The USA is a republic, not a democracy" BigLie are almost always people who want to end democracy and turn the USA into a fascist republic.
 
And a democracy. It's both. The USA is a democratic republic. It's not complicated.

Those who shout "The USA is a republic, not a democracy" BigLie are almost always people who want to end democracy and turn the USA into a fascist republic.
Just for the record, you’re supporting an installed candidate who never won a democratic vote.. so the fact that you’ll support anti-democratic authoritarians makes you the one supporting fascist republics
 
The free version of ChatGPT has an interesting response to the question: Is Democracy mathematically impossible?

"However, the idea that democracy is mathematically impossible isn't entirely accurate—it is more about its imperfections or inherent limitations. Some of these limitations arise from social choice theory and game theory, where mathematical principles can reveal challenges in democratic decision-making."

Some of the mathematical principles mentioned seem complex, at least.

Arrow's impossibility theorem - Wikipedia
 
Today I want to introduce this forum to a concept about what is called Democracy. First what is it? It literally means we all are citizens. We all have the ability to vote on each and every issue that is tasked to Government. Think of it as you think of marriage. The husband and wife have equal voice in all family issues. If they allow one of the pair of parties to do all decisions, they are not following democracy. Assuming the wife or husband is in perfect agreement is proven wrong by simply looking at reasons for divorces. Even happy marriages do not always operate in happy harmony. This is my introduction to all here to democracy.
Others come at this with fully developed explanations. To help you all learn about this, this video will be helpful.



America is not a democracy. It is a republic. If you even know what the pledge of allegiance is it says right in it "to the Republic for which it stands".

Well to be fair, you can find a video of someone making anything sound true or skew something anyway they want about anything and eventually someone will come a long and go with it because it sounds good to them, not because they actually have any insight or knowledge. This is one of those times.

And your smarmy looking down your nose introduction isn't doing you any favors. You begin sounding like you're trying to lecture us like were stupid and you're going to educate us. I stopped paying attention very quickly.
 
And your smarmy looking down your nose introduction isn't doing you any favors. You begin sounding like you're trying to lecture us like were stupid and you're going to educate us. I stopped paying attention very quickly.
You agree with me and find a need to attack me.
You read it wrong.
I made the case the USA is not a Democracy.
The forum rules stipulate to put in a post like the OP, one has to spend space explaining it.
I want to follow forum rules.
 
This country has never been a Democracy, so get that out of your mind. This is a Representative Republic, but what has happened, is that the Marxists back in the late 1990s decided that dumbing down America was a good thing, thus we ended up with the brown turd Obammy, Joe Bribem and a chance that a colored vagina will be running this country. Time for our Representatives to take back the country and actually be for the People, not themselves.

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the level of insulting done by a person is directly related to their IQ + EQ.
the more severe the insults, the lower that IQ+EQ score drops.
proven yet again by mikey this time.
 

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