Preserving modesty, in the pool - LOL!

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Sep 23, 2004
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Preserving modesty, in the pool
By Lornet Turnbull
Seattle Times staff reporter



It's Saturday evening, the end of a hot day, and a group of women and children have gathered at North Seattle's Meadowbrook Pool for their monthly swim.

Most of the pool staff has left, except for two female lifeguards, who on this day will be on duty for the next two hours.

The women and children — all Muslims — have been swimming in private once a month at Meadowbrook as part of a program organized by the North Seattle Family Center.

Because Islam requires Muslim women to fully cover themselves in public, swimming in pools or the ocean is largely off-limits for many.

But across the Puget Sound area, that's starting to change as public and private pools at times are sending home their male staff members, covering up their windows and allowing women of faith to swim alone and in private.

It's occurring here as it has elsewhere across the country, as the Muslim population increases and families seek more ways to stay active.

Access to these pools is not free; the groups, like all others that use these facilities, pay a rental fee.

"It's just been probably 10 years, and we've grown exponentially. I'm sure this sort of thing has been going on in other places on a regular basis. But our community is still looking for opportunities for women to get together."

On this warm Saturday evening at Meadowbrook, the women prepare the pool for privacy: They use brown paper to cover the bottom two-thirds of the floor-to-ceiling glass windows separating the front lobby from the 12-foot-deep pool.

That done, they shower and enter the water — their hijab (scarf) and outer clothing removed. When they swim, the women wear three-quarter-length pants — spandex or free-flowing garments — covering their bodies from navel to knees, as they believe their religion requires.

Their tops are an assortment of T-shirts and modest swimwear.

Ann El-Moslimany, a leader of the Islamic School in Seattle, said, "Most women wear something longer than a swimsuit that comes down to their knees. It depends on the individual; some are more covered than others."

But Junejo, one of four religion columnists for The Seattle Times, said his understanding is that women must always be fully covered to their ankles and their wrists, even when they swim.

"No flesh is to be shown, except for the hand, feet and face," he said, although he acknowledges, "Islam is open to interpretation."


"We feel welcomed here"


The Muslim women say swimming is great exercise, a chance for them to socialize and an opportunity to learn to swim.

Manal Fares, who's swimming on this day with her three children, two girls and a boy, said, "I've been in Seattle 15 years and now I'm able to swim with my Muslim sisters.

"We feel welcomed here and it's easy to go in and out."

But the restrictions make it tough for even some of them to participate.

Ghada Elsaiid went swimming shortly after the program started but hasn't been back because her sons are too old. Boys up to age 6 can swim with the women and girls.

"I love swimming," Elsaiid said. "I swam before when I was in Egypt. That was my first time in a pool here."

Inside the pool at Meadowbrook on Saturday, there was a flurry of activity. One woman did laps in the roped-off deep end as the others socialized, keeping a close watch on the children, who used balls and water noodles to heighten the fun.

"We need the exercise," one of the women said. "And we need to be able to do it in a place where we feel comfortable. I wish it was more widely available."

A handful of area pools now accommodate Muslim women and other women of faith. And one city of Seattle pool — Rainier Beach — sets aside time for Orthodox Jewish women, who observe their own dress customs.

Moslimany said some public pools years ago made swim times available just for women. And she recalls about 25 years ago when a group of Muslim women used to rent the Medgar Evers Pool in Seattle's Central Area for swimming.

But that ended after new managers took over and were unwilling to continue to accommodate the women, Moslimany said.

"We've been looking for another place to swim," she said, learning for the first time about some of the area swim programs.

"There are a lot of Muslim women who want to swim; they're not comfortable swimming with men. There are some Muslim women who think they shouldn't show themselves to anyone but Muslim women."


Idea came after Sept. 11


Ann Fuller, executive director of the North Seattle Family Center, which provides a host of services for immigrant families, said the idea for the swim came about in the months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks when her staff realized many Muslim families had stopped coming to the center.

So they organized a potluck and brainstormed ideas, including activities for families that involved things like swimming.

Fuller said the challenge then became finding a pool that could accommodate the women's religious restrictions.

Not every pool could. Some simply weren't interested. Others didn't have the staff, since the lifeguards must be female and regulations require two of them. Pools also had to be willing to cover their windows, something some rejected as a safety issue.

Glenna Thon, pool supervisor at the Juanita Pool in Kirkland, said a group of Muslim women began using the pool about twice a month last fall and now swim weekly.

"I'm glad we're able to do this," Thon said. "It's good this is comfortable for them."

At the Everett Family YMCA, women of different faith — Muslim, Jewish and Christian — come together for twice-monthly swims through a program organized three years ago by Interfaith Association of Snohomish County.

Karen Fagerberg, associate executive director of the Everett Family YMCA, said that on a slow day they see four people, and on a busy day 30-plus. "The program is not just for Muslim women, but Christians and Jewish women, too.

"That's nice. It's not segregated but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."

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This is hillarious! :rolleyes:

I'm sure that someone so loose in the following of major details, like the 10 commandments, can't imagine how anyone could be so devoted to their religion that they would go to all this trouble to worry about these small details.
 
MissileMan said:
This is hillarious! :rolleyes:

I'm sure that someone so loose in the following of major details, like the 10 commandments, can't imagine how anyone could be so devoted to their religion that they would go to all this trouble to worry about these small details.

They got all our fundementalists beat to hell!
 
I've got a better idea! How about assimilate and act like you're in America or move back to the countries these lame-brained ideas came from? :baby:
 
nucular said:
I've got a better idea! How about assimilate and act like you're in America or move back to the countries these lame-brained ideas came from? :baby:
Dream on---everyone thats here is here to stay and MORE are coming----now we know how the American Indian felt.
 
nucular said:
I've got a better idea! How about assimilate and act like you're in America or move back to the countries these lame-brained ideas came from? :baby:

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 
I don't see a problem with this since the article says they are paying a fee to rent the pool just like any other group.

There are other groups here that isolate themselves from other people the hasidic jews and amish for example. The only difference muslums seem to have are the fanatics running rampant these days.
 
Trigg said:
I don't see a problem with this since the article says they are paying a fee to rent the pool just like any other group.

There are other groups here that isolate themselves from other people the hasidic jews and amish for example. The only difference muslums seem to have are the fanatics running rampant these days.

i agree---its not as if they are doing this during super-busy times, inconveniencing the rest of the population. if they have found an easy way to keep cool and adhere to their religion's rules, more power to 'em. Just because their religion has rules that this country used to adhere to back pre-1900's, doesn't mean everyone will follow our progress. Some people are quite happy living in the 7th century...
 
Trigg said:
I don't see a problem with this since the article says they are paying a fee to rent the pool just like any other group.

There are other groups here that isolate themselves from other people the hasidic jews and amish for example. The only difference muslums seem to have are the fanatics running rampant these days.

Why move to a country where you have to segregate yourself from the rest of the population? Blacks had a fierce struggle to free themselves from segregation. If you don't like the US or its customs just stay where you are. If you don't want to mingle with the rest of the US population, why come here in the first place? I'm not saying they're doing anything illegal. Just something that insults every other person who might use the pool during public hours. They are saying, "You are impure. We are better than you." That's not American, and it's certainly not an attitude we need from new immigrants.
 
nucular said:
Why move to a country where you have to segregate yourself from the rest of the population? Blacks had a fierce struggle to free themselves from segregation. If you don't like the US or its customs just stay where you are. If you don't want to mingle with the rest of the US population, why come here in the first place? I'm not saying they're doing anything illegal. Just something that insults every other person who might use the pool during public hours. They are saying, "You are impure. We are better than you." That's not American, and it's certainly not an attitude we need from new immigrants.

Immigrants come to America for it's opportunities and freedoms. Some see the right to islolate themselves into ethnic conclaves as a freedom and have no interest in assimilation. They have no sense of loyalty to the nation as American freedoms allow criticism of the government. Why do they come here? It's safer and the living conditions are much better than the countries they left. They have given up on trying to improve their own countries. Why should they when they can have American freedoms with no sacrifice.
 
dilloduck said:
Immigrants come to America for it's opportunities and freedoms. Some see the right to islolate themselves into ethnic conclaves as a freedom and have no interest in assimilation. They have no sense of loyalty to the nation as American freedoms allow criticism of the government. Why do they come here? It's safer and the living conditions are much better than the countries they left. They have given up on trying to improve their own countries. Why should they when they can have American freedoms with no sacrifice.

Other countries, such as Australia, place a large burden upon prospective immigrants to demonstrate that they are going to make a favorable contribution to their new country. Why doesn't America?

If we let people in who dislike the principles of the constitution, or who can't even understand them, and if their only reason to come here is to make money, what are we saying to immigrants? INS needs total reformation from the ground up.
 
nucular said:
Why move to a country where you have to segregate yourself from the rest of the population? Blacks had a fierce struggle to free themselves from segregation. If you don't like the US or its customs just stay where you are. If you don't want to mingle with the rest of the US population, why come here in the first place? I'm not saying they're doing anything illegal. Just something that insults every other person who might use the pool during public hours. They are saying, "You are impure. We are better than you." That's not American, and it's certainly not an attitude we need from new immigrants.

There are plenty of examples of groups isolating themselves (amish, jews,) and other examples of the gov. isolating them (asians, indians).

If people choose to stay isolated to preserve their religion what's the problem??Unless they are pushing that religion onto others, which these woman are not. They are simply following the pool rules, renting it just like any other group would. The only special treatment they're getting is covering the windows and female lifeguards.
 
nucular said:
Other countries, such as Australia, place a large burden upon prospective immigrants to demonstrate that they are going to make a favorable contribution to their new country. Why doesn't America?

If we let people in who dislike the principles of the constitution, or who can't even understand them, and if their only reason to come here is to make money, what are we saying to immigrants? INS needs total reformation from the ground up.


I agree with you here. I think the US tends to let just everyone in without making sure they can support themselves. I think we need stronger immigration laws and we need to enforce the laws we already have, ex. the Mexican border mess. I also think English needs to be made the official language.

In Aland Finland a person has to live in the country for 5 years before they can apply for citizenship. They have that time to prove they can support themselves. They can't buy a house or own property unless they're a citizen.
 
Trigg said:
There are plenty of examples of groups isolating themselves (amish, jews,) and other examples of the gov. isolating them (asians, indians).

If people choose to stay isolated to preserve their religion what's the problem??Unless they are pushing that religion onto others, which these woman are not. They are simply following the pool rules, renting it just like any other group would. The only special treatment they're getting is covering the windows and female lifeguards.

I don't think there's a problem with them doing whatever they like within the boundaries of US law. If they are residents or citizens they can exercise their rights to the maximum. I just question a government which allows people into the country who have no intention of assimilating and I question the motivations of immigrants who have no intention of assimilating.
 
Trigg said:
I agree with you here. I think the US tends to let just everyone in without making sure they can support themselves. I think we need stronger immigration laws and we need to enforce the laws we already have, ex. the Mexican border mess. I also think English needs to be made the official language.

In Aland Finland a person has to live in the country for 5 years before they can apply for citizenship. They have that time to prove they can support themselves. They can't buy a house or own property unless they're a citizen.

Funny you should mention Finland. When I was there they wanted my opinion on the matter of female circumcision (eupemism for butchering the female clitoris) among their Somalian immigrants/refugees. The liberal Finns were in a quandary about whether human rights superseded "religious" rights in this case. The Somalians were chopping up the vaginas of their daughters, which would be against Finnish law. However the Somalian elders categorized it as a religious act, which is protected by Finnish law. Once again I said assimilate and take on the customs of your host country or go back home.
:piss2:
 

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