Popular Mechanics

[DiveCon]

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...

did you watch eots video of the loose change guys vs PM?

Yes, I did see the Loose Change video. Here it is.

[youtube]saHs6J0OXVI[/youtube]

seen that before

 

[eots]

It's basically a few college amateur film makers going up against structural engineers. Is that correct?

Unemployed college amateur film makers living in a cabin in the woods going up against structural engineers. That is correct.

David L. Griscom, PhD – Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service. Fellow of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997). Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003). Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of Arizona (2004 - 2005). Winner of the 1993 N. F. Mott Award sponsored by the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids,

the 1995 Otto Schott Award offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers. Officially credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100 most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988.
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid, highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and 7 were brought down by explosives. [Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.]

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time, expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of paramount importance to the future of our country, because the "official" assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus (a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Bio: David L Griscom PhD Physicist bio







Dwain Deets, MS Eng

Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng – Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden. Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988). Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986). Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000. Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers. Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology. 37 year NASA career.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]." AE911Truth


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.


Bio: NASA - Dryden Flight Research Center




Larry L. Erickson, MS, PhD


Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics – Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist. Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter. Recipient of NASA's Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award. 33-year NASA career. Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics. Instructor, Physics and Aerospace Engineering, California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo 1998 - present. Author and co-author of several scientific papers on aerodynamic analysis. Contributing author to Applied Computational Aerodynamics (1990).
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations." AE911Truth

 

[DiveCon]

and there it is for the 3,000th time

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...

this coming from someone who refuses to look at any of those 47 canada wants the truth videos.so far you have proved that you talk nothing but shit.you said you had 3000 plus videos to post.I challenged you to post them,you have YET to do so.what other fairy tales for the day you have to tell us,that elvis presley is alive.Im sure your buddy here elvis wont argue with you on that one.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

It would appear that I am being confused with those that believe that September 11th was planned by the government, I'm not. I was merely pointing out the fact that something as large as a 767 hitting a building like the World Trade Center at 500 miles an hour would cause extreme damage and would easily cause enough structural damage to bring those buildings down. What I was saying is that the design of the World Trade Center buildings were amazingly strong to withstand such a hit and not get knocked over immediately, with the inherent weakness of the space frame's connections to the vertical structures, it is easy to see why they collapsed from the hits. Once the vertical structure was compromised in such a horrific way, gravity and the sheer weight of the upper floors would account for them falling.

It was a mere observation from someone that works with these aircraft and see first hand the size and the amount of weight that gets put on board them.

well it is a very ill informed opinion and does nothing to explain the free fall speed of the collapse or the collapse of wtc 7 nor does it address all of the unanswered questions of the pentagon or prior knowledge


Not only that but a FACT that the 9/11 Bush dupes always ignore that proves explosives brought the towers down is that some of the coworkers who survived the towers collapse,they came out of the towers several minutes BEFORE the towers came down carrying a coworker who had been severely burned by EXPLOSIONS that went off in the sub basement levels.The film footage shows them carrying a man out of the towers who was on fire and the towers hadnt collapsed yet.just seconds BEFORE the plane struck above they heard an explosion from the sub basement level and saw a man coming out of the elevater on fire yelling out-my god theres EXPLOSIONS going on in the basement below.then about 10 seconds later or so,they then heard the plane strike the tower above them.And as I have said MANY times here before,the footage proves it as well with black smoke billowing from the ground below and you hear explosions going off and the towers havent even collapsed yet.This footage of course was suppressed from the mainstream media but you can see it in those videos at that canada wants the truth site.The 9/11 Bush dupes though wont even tackle this issue cause they of course only see what they want to see. To defend popular mechanics is doing a disservice to those 3000 plus people who lost their lives that day.

 

[elvis]

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...

this coming from someone who refuses to look at any of those 47 canada wants the truth videos.so far you have proved that you talk nothing but shit.you said you had 3000 plus videos to post.I challenged you to post them,you have YET to do so.what other fairy tales for the day you have to tell us,that elvis presley is alive.Im sure your buddy here elvis wont argue with you on that one.

Elvis is dead, you fucknut. Take note of my entire screenname. He is my second favorite singer to Lennon, nothing more. Still, the idea that the towers collapsed from controlled demolitions is about as plausible as Elvis shooting Kennedy. After all, he WAS alive in 1963 and you can't PROVE he didn't kill him.

 

[DiveCon]

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...

this coming from someone who refuses to look at any of those 47 canada wants the truth videos.so far you have proved that you talk nothing but shit.you said you had 3000 plus videos to post.I challenged you to post them,you have YET to do so.what other fairy tales for the day you have to tell us,that elvis presley is alive.Im sure your buddy here elvis wont argue with you on that one.

Elvis is dead, you fucknut. Take note of my entire screenname. He is my second favorite singer to Lennon, nothing more. Still, the idea that the towers collapsed from controlled demolitions is about as plausible as Elvis shooting Kennedy. After all, he WAS alive in 1963 and you can't PROVE he didn't kill him.

i'm pretty certain Elvis was in Holywood at the time

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Popular Mechanics is right.

You all know that...

this coming from someone who refuses to look at any of those 47 canada wants the truth videos.so far you have proved that you talk nothing but shit.you said you had 3000 plus videos to post.I challenged you to post them,you have YET to do so.what other fairy tales for the day you have to tell us,that elvis presley is alive.Im sure your buddy here elvis wont argue with you on that one.

Elvis is dead, you fucknut. Take note of my entire screenname. He is my second favorite singer to Lennon, nothing more. Still, the idea that the towers collapsed from controlled demolitions is about as plausible as Elvis shooting Kennedy. After all, he WAS alive in 1963 and you can't PROVE he didn't kill him.

yeah but many loonies like you out there love him so much and think he is still alive.read my second post on this thread and it proves you look like an idiot saying the fires and plane caused the towers to collapse.are you trying to say that Elvis killed kennedy now? is that your latest fairy tale of the day besides your normal fairy tale that the planes caused the towers to collapse ?

 

[eots]

and there it is for the 3,000th time

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career.

Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic.
Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ...

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. …

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. …

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history." Physics911, by Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven, 9/11/2001




Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.

Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."


Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng – Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden. Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988). Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986). Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000. Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers. Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology. 37 year NASA career.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:


"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]." AE911Truth


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 600 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." Sign the Petition

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[Terral]

Hi Dive:

YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 4

and the loose change morons had their asses handed to them

this one
its funny as hell
he posted it as if the loose change guys won the debate
LOL

What made you believe the Loose Change Brats (Dylan Avery and company) won any real debate? Both Jim Meigs 'and' the Loose Change retards are assets of the DoD playing their silly games, which is the reason that both sides give you a thousand rabbit holes to explore 'and' nobody is ever brought to justice for the 911 Inside-job attacks. Do a search of "Dylan Avery" and "Russell Pickering" (Google) and take a look around. Russell is the 'handler' who helped these 'kids' get started in the beginning like "Michael Anderson" (PilotsForTruth Aldo = CIT) works with the CIT retards (Craig, Aldo, Dominick) the very same way. I gained 'restricted' status writing on the 911Oz Board in about 10 posts. Guess why? :0) This is my Intro thread and look at the first retard to reply. Lin Kuei is a mod over at the LooseChange Board and he has this to say (my highlights):

Link

*Sigh* Still at it Terral? With 'interpretations' like the one above, it's no wonder you got banned at the Loose Change Forum. I help run the Loose Change Board, and have done since April 2007... does that mean I too am a disinformation operative?

Note that having certain 'interpretations' of the evidence is 'grounds' in his book for being banned from the Board. :0) In reality they gave me a week suspension (link = "see you in a week") and just decided to leave the sock in my mouth like Killtown at 911Movement and Painter (Michael Anderson above) at PilotsForTruth and Laura at the Cassiopaea Board and ChillZero at the JREF Board (Gravy = Mark Roberts is their DoD Op), so on and so forth. These people all HATE (with a passion) my 9:31/9:32 AM First Explosion (zero replies here) at the Pentagon Explanation, because that wrecks the Official Cover Story these goofballs work everyday to protect and endorse and support along with a dozen other theories. Here is Craig's "No Missile At The Pentagon" OP (link). The DoD is afraid for anyone to wake up and realize the Navy Operations Center was deliberately attacked by the DoD itself, so these guys go to work to convince everyone that ANYTHING hit the Pentagon but the DoD missle. If you want to see a funny sight, Dominick challenges Aldo to debate me by pasting my work on Aldo's thread and the retard refused (here). Dominick pasted my work in Post #2 and Aldo and Craig do everything but debate 'the' 911Truth, because they preaching 'something else.'

The point is that I know these guys very well and any debate you see between Dylan Avery and Jim Meigs represents DoD assets working boths sides for a bunch of DUPES. :0) I explain some of what goes on over at the ToughTalk Board here if anybody is interested.

GL,

Terral

 

[DiveCon]

ah, so now loose change is part of a diversionary tactic by the DoD


man, you cant make this comedy up
LOL

 

[DiveCon]

and there it is for the 3,000th time

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

 

[eots]

and there it is for the 3,000th time

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

debunked by who ?..a cheap ass privately owned magazine ..the 911 commission ..????

 

[DiveCon]

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

debunked by who ?..a cheap ass privately owned magazine ..the 911 commission ..????

OMG, debunked by THOUSANDS
and PM is not a "cheap ass magazine"

and all magazines are privately owned
would you rather they be government owned?

 

[Terral]

Hi Dive:

ah, so now loose change is part of a diversionary tactic by the DoD


man, you cant make this comedy up
LOL

I am telling you guys 'the' 911truth in every post, whether you want to believe it or not. What you see above is the extremely short version . . .

and there it is for the 3,000th time

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum.

No. Right here is where Eots has you pinned down begging for mercy! At the very MOST DiveBomb and his 911Deniers ever achieve in ANY 911Truth Debate is to present 'your' opposing views using the 'evidence' for one interpretation or another. I give my side 'and' Dive gives his side 'and' everyone else gets to decide. While I have not been around this place for very long, I know for A FACT that Dive refuses to support his version of the Official Cover Story using anything at all. I write 911Truth 'Presentations' and Dive is using this Board as his personal chat room, while pretending that he is actually proving something; and he IS NOT proving anything at all except that he is in DENIAL of the 911Truth. The silly nonsense coming out of Dive might lead somebody astray, but that person is not even paying attention in the first place.

it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

Perhaps. But Dive coming to the "Conspiracy Forum" to try and convince everyone that No Conspiracy Exists is the same kind of insanity that you are talking about. The short of a long story is that those of you running diversion for the Official Cover Story will DEFINITELY join the inside-job bad guys in their fate and you can take that 'effect' to the bank . . .

Gary Allen makes a great observation in his book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy," saying,

Link

"It must be remembered that the first job of any conspiracy, whether it be in politics, crime or within a business office, is to convince everyone else that no conspiracy exists. The conspirators success will be determined largely by their ability to do this. That the elite of the academic world and mass communications media always pooh-pooh the existence of the Insiders merely serves to camouflage their operations. These “artists” hide the boy, the cart and the donkey."

My uncle gave me a copy of this book in the mid 1970's and my eyes have been open ever since. The problem with having your eyes wide open is the realization that you are surrounded by DUPES . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[LA RAM FAN]

the facts don't change...the false accusation that the questions of 911 are that of unemployed college kids vs engineers was made ...clearly this view is shared by many people of of the highest levels of education experience and service..so once again I will ;prove that

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

debunked by who ?..a cheap ass privately owned magazine ..the 911 commission ..????

exactly,they were debunked by evil corrupt men on the 9/11 commission and a magazine they hired to investigate it.thats really debunking something all right. funny how they always ignore the FACT that Max Clelland resigned because he was so disgusted with the investgation saying that Zelikow who oversaw much of it, skewed the facts and ignored witness testimony and made critical omissions.the Bush dupes of course will ignore that little fact.

 

[sitarro]

you are right, facts dont change
but everything you have posted has already been debunked ad naseum
it is insanity to think repeating the same lies over and over will somehow have a different effect the 100th time you posted it than it had the very first time

debunked by who ?..a cheap ass privately owned magazine ..the 911 commission ..????

exactly,they were debunked by evil corrupt men on the 9/11 commission and a magazine they hired to investigate it.thats really debunking something all right. funny how they always ignore the FACT that Max Clelland resigned because he was so disgusted with the investgation saying that Zelikow who oversaw much of it, skewed the facts and ignored witness testimony and made critical omissions.the Bush dupes of course will ignore that little fact.

What was the purpose of doing this? Who benefits from creating this huge and extremely complex attack. If they were good enough to do all of this, why would they not crash the actual jets into the Pennsylvania field and the Pentagon? The two aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center buildings were seen by everyone, why would they drop the ball with the Pentagon and flight 93? Why wouldn't they just say that there was a missile attack on the Pentagon and blame it on whomever they needed to blame it on for what ever purpose they had for doing all of this? If they have the power to pull off such a huge operation, why bother? They already have the power to get away with whatever they wanted to do so why bother?

On one hand, Bush was "the dumbest President ever" and yet he is smart enough and diabolical enough to pull this off....... really?

 

[LOki]

It's just amazing how much effort a bunch of retarded douchebags will go through to demonstrate how planes were not responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon, but rather that the government used demolition explosives and/or missiles and then cranked up it's scary propaganda machine to perpetrate this elaborate con, involving thousands of witnesses and experts, to convince us all into believing it was planes--as if our government was competent to engineer such a thing; as if our governement, if it were to do such a thing, had no means to simply get planes, fly them into the respective buildings and then say, . . . well, PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!

 

[LA RAM FAN]

It's just amazing how much effort a bunch of retarded douchebags will go through to demonstrate how planes were not responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon, but rather that the government used demolition explosives and/or missiles and then cranked up it's scary propaganda machine to perpetrate this elaborate con, involving thousands of witnesses and experts, to convince us all into believing it was planes--as if our government was competent to engineer such a thing; as if our governement, if it were to do such a thing, had no means to simply get planes, fly them into the respective buildings and then say, . . . well, PLANES WERE FLOWN INTO THOSE BUILDINGS!

the retarded douchbags are the Bush dupes who go to such efforts to try and defend the fairy tale version that the planes and fires caused the towers to come down.if you actually bothered reading the posts of mine, Eots and terral you would see what an idiot you look like for making this statement.yes planes were flown into the buildings.NOBODY here on this thread is disputing that so why are you even bringing it up? the planes were flown into the towers and explosives were also set off to bring the towers down.they used planes to fly into the towers because if they confessed that explosives went off,people would know the government did that cause Al Queda could not have planted them.got news for you,our government has been doing things like this for YEARS to the people and have made a living for years on keeping secrets from the population of the world.after all,the CIA provoked a war in indonisia in the 40's and that was kept a secret till recently in 95 so enough of that crap nonsense that people in the government cant keep secrets.the reason 9/11 is so much discussed is because these are known facts around the world that it was an inside job.more and more by the thousands are waking up about that every year since 9/11.

 

[Terral]

Hi Inside Job:

A few points in your statement above can use some clarification:

Exactly, they were debunked by evil corrupt men on the 9/11 commission and a magazine they hired to investigate it. That’s really debunking something all right. Funny how they always ignore the FACT that Max Clelland resigned because he was so disgusted with the investigation saying that Zelikow who oversaw much of it, skewed the facts and ignored witness testimony and made critical omissions. The Bush DUPES of course will ignore that little fact.

The key point above regards critical omissions that some of you will simply refuse to believe:

911Commission Report:

Arlington County After-Action Report:

For those of you who do not know: The ACAAR was put out by the Arlington County Fire Department (link) strictly pertaining to the Pentagon Case. Yes, I know those people very well too and have gone round and round and round with them about this very situation you are talking about above. Here are some of the high points:

1. Both of these Government documents have been ‘keyword sanitized’ to exclude the terms ‘explosions.’

That’s right! Try to imagine about 1000 pages of Official ‘Sworn’ Testimony from our Government about these related 9/11 attacks that ‘exclude’ the term ‘explosions’!!!! :0)

2. Both of these documents include the term ‘explosion’ (singular) exactly six (6) times.

That’s right again! The 911Commission Report contains the term ‘explosion’ just six times for ALL of these related 9/11 cases.

3. The ACAAR includes the times of 9:31 AM and 9:32 AM exactly ‘zero’ (0) times.

I cover this point in my letter to the Fire Department included below, but this just happens to be the very time that the Pentagon Clocks stopped (my 9:31 thread = first pic) and the same time that the FAA Timeline says the aircraft struck the Pentagon (link). The following is a letter I sent to Jacquelyn Brown from the Arlington County Fire Department who wanted some examples of errors. They eventually refused to continue communications . . . :0)

GL,

Terral

--------------------------------
[FONT=&quot]Hi Jacquelyn Brown: Thu 11/08/07 2:50 PM[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for writing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Ms. Brown >> Good morning, Mr. Croft. We received your email and would appreciate your sending us examples of the errors so that we may correct them. Are these grammatical errors or factual errors?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Factual errors. I have been investigating this Pentagon case for some time now and have found many errors in the ACAAR where your data contradicts information in other reports, timelines and time stamped News Video footage. All ACAAR page number references are from the PDF counter. Some examples are:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Fire/edu/about/docs/after_report.pdf [/FONT]
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1. ACAAR Page 200 Timeline says, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9:38 a.m. American Airlines Flight #77, carrying 58 passengers and a crew of 6, crashes into the Pentagon.[/FONT]
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http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf [/FONT]
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Page 2 of the FAA Timeline says, “0932 ATC AEA reports aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon.”[/FONT]
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Conclusion: The ACAAR Timeline is off by six minutes. Your report records this error, because you fail to realize ‘on station’ Fort Meyer Foam 161 firemen Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper ( http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt ) were injured during the 9:31:39 AM First Explosion when the Quartermaster-calibrated Navy Clock stopped at exactly 9:31:39 AM with the Army Heliport Clock stopping within the same minute.[/FONT]
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All of the pre-9:32 AM “First Explosion” evidence can be seen in Post #2 here: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=16133 [/FONT]
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Both firemen hid under their vehicles for the 4 minutes and 48 seconds until the ‘second attack’ taking place at exactly 9:36:27 AM to stop the second series of Pentagon Clocks.[/FONT]
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The West Wedge E-Ring Wall had a single small entry hole between 9:31:39 AM and 9:36:27 AM, when Terry Cohen rushed to the scene from just 100 feet away to report “Just Smoke” ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5751351276150910098 ). Lloyd England the taxi driver standing in the middle of Washington Avenue between 9:30 AM and 9:36 AM reported to Barbara Honegger to seeing only “inside-the-building fires” ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf ), until the “Big Boom” ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) at 9:36:27 AM corresponding to Terry Cohen’s “Terrible Explosion” taking place ‘after’ the original 9:31:39 AM attack. All of the evidence says your 9:38 AM Flight 77 crash time is much too late to coincide with either of these explosions. [/FONT]
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2. The ACAAR says, 9:55 a.m. Captain Gibbs evacuates impact area.[/FONT]
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This is simply a misstatement of the facts, because we have Live News footage showing firemen in the impact area fighting the fire beyond the 9:55 am time.[/FONT]
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6339188409899327677 [/FONT]
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The News 4 footage shows the E-Ring roof standing at 10:22 AM and firemen fighting the fire, between times ‘you say’ an evacuation order was underway. Your Report language is very clear that the area was evacuated four times:[/FONT]
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ACAAR Page 38 >> "During the first 24 hours, it was necessary to evacuate the Pentagon on four separate occasions because of the risk of structural collapse or the threat of additional terrorist attacks. It is difficult to measure the full impact of repeated building evacuations, but it was clearly negative and significant. Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations, abandoned equipment, shut off hoses, and ran several hundred yards to protected areas. From there, they had to watch as flames reclaimed the parts of the Pentagon they had just evacuated."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Since the ‘all clear’ was given at 10:38 AM (Page 201), then quite obviously you have many contradictions in this Report.[/FONT]
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3. The ACAAR says, 9:57 a.m. Structural collapse in impact area[/FONT]
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This is one of the most blatant fabrications in the entire Report that places the E-Ring Roof collapse ‘before’ 10:00 a.m. in direct contradiction to all the TV News ‘time stamped’ evidence. You just saw a straight unbroken E-Ring roof line in the News 4 footage above at 10:22 am, even though they included a second camera cut of the E-Ring wall collapsed from a later time. This is my Pentagon Timeline Thread ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=16510 ) where the actual event times are broken down into seconds in many cases. The evidence for a 10:15 AM E-Ring wall collapse is here:[/FONT]
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Time Stamped 10:15 Collapse >> http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110954-1036 [/FONT]
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Personally I believe the E-Ring roof collapsed after 10:38 AM, because your firemen are busy fighting the fire ‘during’ the collapse shown here:[/FONT]
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_j1OsSVmo[/ame]

Stop the counter at 00:26/00:37 and you will see Arlington County firemen manning the hose behind the “Live9” News logo and a firemen standing directly in the center of the screen walking to the left. You cannot have a ‘roof collapse time’ during the same time that the ‘evacuation order’ is given, because of your “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations . . .”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] clause. Remember the ‘evacuation’ orders are given at 9:55 am for the impact area and we are looking at the impact area. Even if you want to water down the evacuation order and back that up to 10:15 AM with Chief Schwartz’s order, the E-Ring roof is collapsing ‘after’ 10:22 AM from the News 4 time stamped video, or the 10:15 AM time from the “9 Breaking News” video. Since you definitely have firemen fighting the E-Ring fire at the time of the E-Ring roof collapse, then you need to decide if that was ‘after’ the 10:38 AM “all clear” was given, OR if no evacuation order was given at the specified times. Personally I see no way for the ACAAR Board to revise your sworn statements apart from conducting a new investigation into the log entries of all Arlington County and attached fire trucks. [/FONT]
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4. We have reports of ‘many’ explosions taking place between 9:31:39 AM and 10:15:16 AM from Official Timelines like this ( 9/11 Timeline of Chaos ) to actual Live time stamped News footage like this:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4[/ame][/FONT]
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Listen to this witness telling his story about many explosions (plural with an “s&#8221, as they are going off in the background (4 of them) during this three minute interview between 10:12 AM and 10:15 AM. However, the ACAAR uses the term “explosion” (singular) only six times with ‘all’ of them references to your errant 9:38 AM Explosion that ‘never’ even took place. I have studied all the available evidence in a vain attempt to find just one time stamped piece of 9:38 AM explosion evidence and ‘none’ exists anywhere. Your entire 215 Page Report never uses the term “explosions” even one time telling this investigator that your ACAAR has been keyword sanitized to exclude evidence vital to any serious Pentagon investigation. You have no testimony from the two key trucks responsible for fighting this fire from the impact area. NONE. There is not one mention of Fort Meyer Rescue Engine 161 or Foam Unit 331 plainly visible in all these News videos and in the Public Action Reports ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa.html ) and supporting articles ( http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa-article/ ). The testimony from these Engine 161 and Foam 331 firemen is vital to telling the story of what really happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 and that testimony has been purposely omitted to hide the evidence of ‘all’ these explosions deliberately set off to bring the E-Ring roof down as near 9:31:39 AM as humanly possible. Your ‘cooked’ 9:57 AM roof collapse Timeline entry is a complete fabrication to give credibility to the “Flight 77 Crashed Here” Cover Story, when there is no evidence that any 100-Ton Jetliner crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.[/FONT]

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I can show you E-Ring wall pre-collapse pictures all day long that all say “No 100-Ton Jetliner Crashed Here.” A real 100-Jetliner has hundreds of time-change parts with serial numbers married into the aircraft registration numbers notifying maintenance personnel when those registered parts must be changed. Retired Colonel George Nelson is an expert in this field and gives his testimony here: [/FONT]
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http://physics911.net/georgenelson [/FONT]
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The FBI has failed to produce a single time-change part from ‘any’ of the four 9/11 Jetliners including Flight 77. Until the ACAAR Board sees evidence that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, then your sworn testimony should reflect the evidence. The FBI-produced Flight Data Recorder evidence given to the National Transportation Safety Board . . . [/FONT]
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http://web.archive.org/web/20061007032310/http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight_+Path_+Study_AA77.pdf [/FONT]
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. . . places their phantom Flight 77 ‘beyond’ Pentagon airspace at the Official 9:32 AM FAA ‘aircraft crash’ time, which means their 100-Ton Jetliner had nothing to do with that First Explosion. Jim Ritter’s testimony is completely fabricated and cannot be supported by any evidence at all. NONE. If you read through his commentary, you will see the last time given to their bogey is 9:15:15 AM. His conclusion that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37:45 AM going 530 miles per hour is disproved by looking at one piece of evidence. First of all, this is the Official NTSB “Brief of Accident” Report Adopted 03/07/2006 for Flight 77 Aircraft Registry Number N644AA:[/FONT]
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http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA01MA064&rpt=fi [/FONT]
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Look in the left-hand column to see “Destroyed” notation that fails to even mention the Engine Make/Model, Number of Engines, or other very important information for any serious investigation. You must realize that no 6-Ton Rolls-Royce Engines were ever found at the Pentagon and no sign of the 60 tons of high grade aluminum/titanium Jetliner frame, seats, landing gear, cargo, wing sections or the massive tail section. The government excuse is that the 100-Ton Jetliner vaporized into thin air from a hydrocarbon explosion, which is very much impossible. Please prepare yourself to look at one picture of a Flight 77 victim from the Official Government Photos. I apologize, but this is very important to establishing ‘the truth’ of what really happened for your Report:[/FONT]
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http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html[/FONT]
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You can likely picture yourself seated just like this victim on a typical Jetliner flight, as I too have sat back in my seat with both arms resting in exactly this manner many times. However, if the 6-ton engines are missing from vaporization, then please explain how this victim can have no broken bones and not even a chipped tooth? Look down at his pants leg to realize his lower body is barely even burned. The victim’s expression says he was definitely unconscious when his body was burned using a torch held in a stationary position on his upper torso. Move down to the second picture and the victim on the left where his light blue stripped shirt has been pulled from inside his pants. You can see his wallet tucked inside his right-hand pants pocket, just like many men move their wallets up front when traveling for comfort and avoiding the risk of a pickpocket encounter. This victim’s body was exposed to some kind of heat source, but all of his bones appear in perfect alignment inconsistent with going through any Jetliner crash moving 530 miles per hour where the entire Jetliner is ‘Destroyed’ to leave no evidence. Look in the background of these pictures to realize there is plenty of debris, but none of that is stored in any aircraft hanger part of any real investigation. The government recovered DNA from 184 of 188 victims, excluding their fantasy Bearded Jihadist Radicals, but they cannot produce even one time-change part proving Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon for establishing FBI jurisdictional authority over this case. [/FONT]
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If I may offer my opinion to the ACAAR Board from my insight into this Pentagon investigation: The ACAAR Board needs to gather together all the log entries from all your Arlington County and attached fire truck crews and amend your statements to coincide with what really happened on 9/11 without regard the DoD/FBI/Bush Administration cronies doing everything to micromanage ACAAR content for their well-orchestrated Cover-Up operation. Your “First Explosion” aircraft crash Timeline entry should agree 100 percent with the FAA Official Timeline entry and NOT what the Feds are forcing you to enter in your Report. The ACAAR Board should petition the State of Virginia to open an investigation into the 9:32 AM aircraft crash that definitely has NOTHING to do with any 100-Ton Jetliner or Flight 77. This Pentagon fire is being characterized as a “60-Hour Witness Assassination” ( http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/01/278515.shtml ) by Carol Valentine the President of Pubic Action Incorporated casting many shadows on Arlington County Firefighter Actions during this period. Navy Intelligence is on the case, as the Navy Operations Center was the target of the 9:31:39 AM missile strike ( http://911research.com/sept11/victims/docs/pentagon_victims.jpg ) and the ACAAR Board does not want to be caught flatfooted holding up this piece of “Loyal Bushie” Disinformation pointing the finger straight back at you as an accomplice. At this point you do not need me to run down your Page 200 ACAAR Timeline and point out the obvious contradictions to the evidence, but you need to begin again and establish the facts from your own internal reports that ‘do’ verify every single word in this email to be 100 percent 911Truth. [/FONT]
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My vision of firemen is that of heroes running into burning buildings to save our fellow Americans and I would very much like to continue holding our public servants up in the very best light possible. While I feel the Arlington County Fire Department has not purposely worked to mislead anyone, I do believe the DoD and Bush Administration has twisted many arms to deliver us a watered down version of what really happened on 9/11. I am happy to appear before your Board and give a presentation of the facts in this case, if that will help you in anyway. Please write or call if I can be of any service. [/FONT]
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More Expert Testimony >> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhBzAh_eeA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhBzAh_eeA[/ame]

God bless you, [/FONT]

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Personal Info omitted
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