Pope trying to change DP doctrine

[Care4all]

pope John Paul, was right, in making the first change....Where only the worst of the worst killers, are killed by us....the mass murders.... or say, a person who killed another by slowly cutting them in to pieces and eating them, kind of thing

and frances is probab;y right in making this change...

The question is, where is your heart and soul and mind? Is it in the right place, before you JUDGE and kill another person? Have you cleaned your own mind and soul before CASTING the first stone? JESUS STOPPED THE DEATH PENALTY....in this adulterous woman's instance Avatar, did he not?

Pope John Paul, challenged us on that..... We've been too quick to judge and kill happy, our own mind, heart and souls were not clean enough to make this decision....he tried to point that out to us.... he saw that we had lost faith in god to be able to transform and save a person that seemed unredeemable to us.... just kill him....

it became too easy for us, to just kill him...kill everyone breaking the law.... even with our very flawed Judicial system, where innocent men were and still are, being put to death, when they were innocent.... aren't we nearing 100 people that were on death Row, but the Innocent Project found that their DNA showed they were not the murderers?

Wasn't Jesus killed, because he healed the sick on the Sabbath, did miracles... and was labeled falsely by the Sadducee etc, as breaking the so called law of God and blaspheming God....?

the Levite and Priest who passed the beat up, bloody and left for dead man on the side of the road because of rules written in the Bible...but the Samaritan who helped him yet broke the rules of the Sabbath or uncleanliness of blood.... was GOOD, GODly.... the GOOD Samaritan.

We have become too evil, to judge evil....

 

[Pogo]

So all you anti-Catholic bigots would be praising him to the fucking rafters if he came out and said it's OK to be a "practicing" homosexual, but who cares what the Pope says about the DP, eh?

Aaaanand we're back to the TNHarley meaning again. Allll righty then.

 

[zaangalewa]

DP doctrine?
What does that mean because im pretty sure it doesnt mean what i think it means

Death penalty.

Short: Death penalty is a wrong way.

more background information:

… A new draft of paragraph 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Aug. 2, after Pope Francis approved it in May.

Quoting Pope Francis’ words in a speech of Oct. 11, 2017, the new paragraph states, in part, that “the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that ‘the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,’ and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.”

Reasons for changing the teaching, the paragraph says, include: the increasing effectiveness of detention systems, growing understanding of the unchanging dignity of the person, and leaving open the possibility of conversion.

Until now, the Church has consistently taught that the state has the authority to use the death penalty, in cases of “absolute necessity,” though with the qualification that the Church considered such situations to be extremely rare.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church had stated: “Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.”

The new teaching will be included in all the editions of the Catechism going forward, a Vatican communique stated Aug. 2.

The full text of the new draft of paragraph 2267 states, in full:

“Recourse to the death penalty on the part of legitimate authority, following a fair trial, was long considered an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good.”

“Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state. Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens but, at the same time, do not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption.”

“Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that ‘the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,’ [1] and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.” …

Source: Vatican changes Catechism teaching on death penalty, calls it ‘inadmissible’

Oh by the way: Thanks Francesco. God bless you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

how does that work? Shouldn’t God have some say in the matter?

He speaks for God.

No he does not the Catholic church does not believe in prophets and only a prophet can speak for God. Further their doctrine is clear the Pope is just a man elevated to run to Church

 

[zaangalewa]

The Pope cannot change a teaching that has been the same for 2000 years. We need a new Pope.

You need a new brain. You seem not to understand what you read when you read the bible and you seem also not to understand what was reported, written and said in the last 2000 years from so many Catholics. Without any doubt the Pope is right to change this. Death penalty is incompatible with the Christian religion. Christians should respect every life.

 

[zaangalewa]

how does that work? Shouldn’t God have some say in the matter?

He speaks for God.

No he does not the Catholic church does not believe in prophets and only a prophet can speak for God. Further their doctrine is clear the Pope is just a man elevated to run to Church

One day everyone will be a prophet. But this means not the time now needs not orientation.

 

[Dale Smith]

Catholicism is a cult, not a religion. It's paganism mixed with some biblical references for affect. The Reformation of Martin Luther was an attempt to free the people of papal authority and rule. People came to America to flee the persecution of the jesuits, the military arm of the catholic "church".Protestants, to break that word down, is PROTEST against the pope. The inquisition in Europe killed and tortured to death over 60 million people from 1550 to 1930. The vatican is the whore of Babylon and now for the first time in history, there is a jesuit pope. Here is the jesuit 4th vow or is known as the extreme oath.

I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

 

[Picaro]

The question is, where is your heart and soul and mind? Is it in the right place, before you JUDGE and kill another person?

Legal systems have to consider the public's rights to be protected from criminals, including murderers. So yes, 'judging' is just fine.

Have you cleaned your own mind and soul before CASTING the first stone? JESUS STOPPED THE DEATH PENALTY....in this adulterous woman's instance Avatar, did he not?

He stopped the death penalty???? Tell us again, what happened to him? ...

 

[zaangalewa]

Catholicism is … not a religion. …

Catholics are Christians. The name of the religion of Catholics is "Christianity". The most popular secular version of this is called "humanity".

 

[zaangalewa]

Dale Smith : What do you like to say?

 

[Dale Smith]

Catholicism is … not a religion. …

Catholics are Christians. The name of the religion of Catholics is "Christianity". The most popular secular version of this is called "humanity".

No where in the Bible does it claim that there is a man on earth that is the "vicar" of Christ...no where in the Bible does it say that there is such a place called "Purgatory" where if you pay the catholic church enough that your non-catholic deceased family member can be "prayed" into heaven....nothing in the Bible about paying a priest in advance for forgiveness of sins called "indulgences"......your ignorance is duly noted.

 

[zaangalewa]

Catholicism is … not a religion. …

Catholics are Christians. The name of the religion of Catholics is "Christianity". The most popular secular version of this is called "humanity".

No where in the Bible does it claim that there is a man on earth that is the "vicar" of Christ...no where in the Bible does it say that there is such a place called "Purgatory" where if you pay the catholic church enough that your non-catholic deceased family member can be "prayed" into heaven....nothing in the Bible about paying a priest in advance for forgiveness of sins called "indulgences"......your ignorance is duly noted.

Still no idea what you like to say. It's for me not important what you say here. To be honest: It confuses me in most cases very much what US-Christians are saying. And I hate specially all this TV-prayers. Crazy people. I love a place like Taize for example - a place where everyone is welcome. And I think the Catholic church has also to go a step back and to accept also more pagan roots again. We are the universal church - the holy catholic church. A place where everyone should be able to live and to be taken serious as a child of god.

In context with death penalty let me give you an imagination. You are a mother and your son is a murderer and he will be executed now where you take a look at him and you see him in the age of three years in this imagination. What do you feel now?

 

[Picaro]

There was no '2000 years of Catholicism', all the Inquisitions combined killed maybe 5,000 tops, most all of them in Spain and Portugal, the Roman Inquisition itself killed almost no one over its long existence, ending in 1850 or so. The 'Reformation' was a result of the Papacy's plan to pay back a huge Fugger loan, those 'indulgences', which in turn was intended to further the interests of the Hapsburgs, i.e. their Holy Roman Imperial family, and not much to do with doctrine.

The 'wars of religion' were just the Hapsburgs against 'everybody else', including Catholic France and its Cardinal Richileu siding with most of the 'Protestants' against the Holy Roman Empire, i.e. the Hapsburgs, so it's silly to call it a 'war of religion', just based on how the various political divisions happened to have divided themselves. and no '60 million' died, that's absurd, Europe's population actually increased from 1550 to 1650, from some 60 million and reaching 74 million, just crazy Protestant propaganda, and Protestants were themselves pretty happy to burn and kill people themselves, , most likely killed more 'heretics' than Catholics ever did in their entire history. America was a refuge from Protestant loons, not Catholic ones; Catholics were a small minority of immigrants to the U.S. until the Irish and German famines.

 

[irosie91]

It is VERY IMPORTANT when discussing the "KILL TOTALS" of the Catholic
Inquisitions to take note that MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIED were not
"BROUGHT BEFORE THE INQUISITION" The "INQUISITION" trials were
reserved for CATHOLICS ONLY. It is the present custom of apologists
for the catholic canon law to present ONLY the numbers of people CONVICTED
of heresy, and therefore executed as the TOTAL KILL. This representation is
utter BULLSHIT. Most of the people who died as a consequence of the
INQUISITION were never "brought before the Inquisition" and underwent no trial. -----they were just marched to the BONFIRES of the
AUTO DE FE as Jews, muslims or just homosexuals--------no trial, no "inquisition"-----just murdered. Of course the numbers who died having been thrown penniless into exile------are not
counted either. I have lots or relatives who STILL SPEAK SPANISH------being the remnant of the SURVIVORS of the exile galvanized by BITCH ISABELLE. More died than survived the forced flight. The Hebraized Spanish language known as
LADINO is spoken even in the USA-----by that remnant. Back then most of the survivors landed in Turkey, Morocco, Algeria and eventually Palestine and the USA. They wandered in small number into the USA way back in the 1600s----their synagogue still stands in Manhattan NY SHEARITH ZEDEK which translates roughly as "gates of righteousness"
Some landed in south America----the "survivors of the inquisitions of spain
and Portugal"--------for those interested (not pic) the philosopher
SPINOZA fled Portugal from the "benign" inquisition thing. More good news-----the LADINO LANGUAGE got terrific poetry, music and
Literature-------all galvanized by the survivors of the INQUISITION (the program of genocide that "never happened")

 

[irosie91]

a question for Pic-----Has Isabelle been declared a saint yet?

 

[Votto]

So you guys all ignore the news and we’re unaware that the pope changed doctrine on the death penalty

The press has kind of ignored the Pope ever since he compared abortionists to Nazis.

That was a big no, no.

 

[Votto]

So all you anti-Catholic bigots would be praising him to the fucking rafters if he came out and said it's OK to be a "practicing" homosexual, but who cares what the Pope says about the DP, eh?

I'm not sure Catholics do care what he says or the church says for that matter..

For example, many vote democrat even though the entire democratic party has sold their soul to abortionists. They do this knowing that the church doctrine says that abortion is murder.

It would be akin to voting for a Nazi cuz you like their social programs.

 

[Taz]

how does that work? Shouldn’t God have some say in the matter?

When has god ever said anything?

 

[Taz]

So you guys all ignore the news and we’re unaware that the pope changed doctrine on the death penalty

The press has kind of ignored the Pope ever since he compared abortionists to Nazis.

That was a big no, no.

Did he mean that Jews have the mental capacity of an aborted baby? Or just look like them?

 

[irosie91]

So you guys all ignore the news and we’re unaware that the pope changed doctrine on the death penalty

The press has kind of ignored the Pope ever since he compared abortionists to Nazis.

That was a big no, no.

"abortionists" ? I never met an ABORTIONIST------aren't they the old
ladies with coat hangers?