Zone1 Pontius Pilate: An Enigmatic Figure

[BreezeWood]

provide the tablets claimed by the liar moses etched w/ commandments their claim from the heavens never witnessed by anyone than who destroyed them moses - included in all three desert religion bibles.

Why?

- used by all three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent - in the name of the heavens and repudiated by the 1st century events, jesus.

 

[alang1216]

They misunderstood the job description. It's one of the things that Jesus corrected along with it's not about rule keeping. It's about relationships. If one's relationship with God is good all other relationships will be good. Rules won't even be necessary.

Sorry but I can't get past the fact that, according to you, the Jews acknowledged Jesus was the Messiah sent by God and they just said, 'no thanks, take him back'.

 

[alang1216]

I disagree. You are blind to it all.

I disagree with your disagreement. I think you are a fine example of 'blind faith'.

 

[ding]

Sorry but I can't get past the fact that, according to you, the Jews acknowledged Jesus was the Messiah sent by God and they just said, 'no thanks, take him back'.

Did I say they acknowledged Jesus as the messiah? I said they connected the dots from the messiah to the king. Clearly they did not accept Jesus as the messiah.

Religious leaders accused Jesus of claiming to be the "King of the Jews" to compel Roman authorities to execute him for sedition, as Jewish leaders lacked the authority to carry out capital punishment. By framing Jesus as an insurrectionist threatening Caesar's authority, they sought to eliminate him, as they did not accept him as the messiah and viewed his popularity with envy.

Key reasons for this accusation included:

• Political Framing: The accusation was designed to make Jesus appear as an enemy of Rome, with the crowd telling Pilate, "Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar".
• Rejection of His Messiahship: The leaders did not believe Jesus was the expected prophetic king; instead, they viewed him as a false teacher and a competitor, particularly due to his popularity with common people.
• Fear of Disruption: The religious leaders believed Jesus was perverting the nation and challenging their established authority.
• Legal Trap: Lacking the authority to perform executions, the Jewish leaders needed a political crime (treason against Rome) rather than a religious crime (blasphemy) to get the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, to order his death.

The irony of the situation was that while the charge was used to bring about his death, it ultimately highlighted the conflict between his spiritual kingship and the earthly kingdom anticipated by his accusers.

 

[ding]

I disagree with your disagreement. I think you are a fine example of 'blind faith'.

I'm not the one fabricating things that aren't there like Jesus told the disciples he was the king of the Jews when there is zero evidence for that and is diametrically opposite of what the gospels state.

The gospels make a concerted effort to show that Jesus taught that the messiah would be a suffering servant as foretold in Isaiah 53:1-12. The gospels make a concerted effort to show Jesus acknowledged being a king, but redefined this role as a spiritual, non-political, and heavenly sovereignty rather than a conventional earthly monarchy. The gospels make a concerted effort to show Jesus affirmed a role greater than David.

 

[ding]

- used by all three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent - in the name of the heavens and repudiated by the 1st century events, jesus.

You left out this part.... Jesus taught that it isn't about rule keeping. That true righteousness is about a transformed heart, love for God, and love for neighbors, rather than merely keeping external rules. He fulfilled the law by focusing on intent over action—teaching that inner attitudes like hatred or lust are as sinful as actions, while emphasizing mercy over rigid legalism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared that inner thoughts (hatred, lust) are equivalent to acts (murder, adultery) in God's eyes. He pushed beyond mere conformity to a list of rules to demand true righteousness. Jesus defied religious leaders by healing on the Sabbath and allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, declaring that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus summarized all laws as loving God wholeheartedly and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He argued that following these two principles is the essence of true obedience. He frequently broke with the traditions of the Pharisees, such as ceremonial hand-washing, arguing that what truly defiles a person comes from the heart, not from unwashed hands. Jesus taught that followers should keep his commands out of love for him, rather than keeping rules to gain merit or out of a sense of legal obligation.

 

[BreezeWood]

You left out this part.... Jesus taught that it isn't about rule keeping. That true righteousness is about a transformed heart, love for God, and love for neighbors, rather than merely keeping external rules. He fulfilled the law by focusing on intent over action—teaching that inner attitudes like hatred or lust are as sinful as actions, while emphasizing mercy over rigid legalism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared that inner thoughts (hatred, lust) are equivalent to acts (murder, adultery) in God's eyes. He pushed beyond mere conformity to a list of rules to demand true righteousness. Jesus defied religious leaders by healing on the Sabbath and allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, declaring that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus summarized all laws as loving God wholeheartedly and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He argued that following these two principles is the essence of true obedience. He frequently broke with the traditions of the Pharisees, such as ceremonial hand-washing, arguing that what truly defiles a person comes from the heart, not from unwashed hands. Jesus taught that followers should keep his commands out of love for him, rather than keeping rules to gain merit or out of a sense of legal obligation.

- do you or do you not repudiate the false (commandments) of judaism claimed from the heavens used by the desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

the 1st century events, jesus - you did not answer the question before your reply ...

 

[alang1216]

I'm not the one fabricating things that aren't there like Jesus told the disciples he was the king of the Jews when there is zero evidence for that and is diametrically opposite of what the gospels state.

Albert Schweitzer’s "thoroughgoing eschatology," posits that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who believed the end of the world was imminent. In this interpretation, Jesus privately instructed his disciples that he would soon be revealed as the Messiah—the King of the Jews. Judas Iscariot allegedly revealed this secret to the authorities, leading to Jesus' arrest for sedition against Rome.

Schweitzer’s View: Schweitzer maintained in The Quest of the Historical Jesus that Jesus' life was driven by an "eschatological" urgency, expecting the kingdom of God to arrive soon.

• The "Secret": The idea is that Jesus did not proclaim himself publicly as King to avoid premature arrest, teaching this privately to his inner circle.
• Judas' Role: Judas is interpreted as the one who informed authorities (like the Temple leadership or Pilate) that Jesus was declaring himself King, a direct challenge to Roman authority.
• The Execution: Jesus was executed by the Romans (not just the Jewish authorities) for treason (calling himself the "King of the Jews").

While this perspective highlights Jesus as a figure in 1st-century Jewish apocalypticism, it is one of many historical interpretations and often debated regarding the exact motivation of Judas.

The gospels make a concerted effort to show that Jesus taught that the messiah would be a suffering servant as foretold in Isaiah 53:1-12. The gospels make a concerted effort to show Jesus acknowledged being a king, but redefined this role as a spiritual, non-political, and heavenly sovereignty rather than a conventional earthly monarchy. The gospels make a concerted effort to show Jesus affirmed a role greater than David.

The gospels certainly interpret Jewish scripture to show Jesus was foretold and he fulfilled prophesies. Jews have a different interpretation of their texts. In this case Rabbinic and modern Jewish interpretations often identify the "servant" as the collective people of Israel.

 

[ding]

the 1st century events, jesus - you did not answer the question before your reply ...

Probably because you can't be understood most of the time.

 

[ding]

Albert Schweitzer’s "thoroughgoing eschatology," posits that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who believed the end of the world was imminent. In this interpretation, Jesus privately instructed his disciples that he would soon be revealed as the Messiah—the King of the Jews. Judas Iscariot allegedly revealed this secret to the authorities, leading to Jesus' arrest for sedition against Rome.

Schweitzer’s View: Schweitzer maintained in The Quest of the Historical Jesus that Jesus' life was driven by an "eschatological" urgency, expecting the kingdom of God to arrive soon.

• The "Secret": The idea is that Jesus did not proclaim himself publicly as King to avoid premature arrest, teaching this privately to his inner circle.
• Judas' Role: Judas is interpreted as the one who informed authorities (like the Temple leadership or Pilate) that Jesus was declaring himself King, a direct challenge to Roman authority.
• The Execution: Jesus was executed by the Romans (not just the Jewish authorities) for treason (calling himself the "King of the Jews").

While this perspective highlights Jesus as a figure in 1st-century Jewish apocalypticism, it is one of many historical interpretations and often debated regarding the exact motivation of Judas.

The gospels certainly interpret Jewish scripture to show Jesus was foretold and he fulfilled prophesies. Jews have a different interpretation of their texts. In this case Rabbinic and modern Jewish interpretations often identify the "servant" as the collective people of Israel.

So because Jesus supposedly thought the end of the world was immanent being the king of the Jews was unimportant? How did Albert know what Jesus instructed the disciples if it was done in private? This is yet another example of making stuff up because you can't bear to accept what the evidence shows. Jesus never preached the end of the word is coming. If it were as you claim, that would have been his core message and it wasn't. Not even close.

Jesus focused on a transformation of life rather than a catastrophic end. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God was already present through his ministry, rather than exclusively a future, apocalyptic event (i.e. 17:21 "the kingdom of God is in the midst of you"). Matthew 10:23 and Mark 9:1 which refer to the Transfiguration, his crucifixion (i.e. the destruction of the Temple) and his resurrection, rather than the end of the physical world. Many of Jesus's warnings in the Olivet Discourse (Mark 13/Matt 24) relate specifically to the impending crisis of the Roman destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, not the immediate cessation of the planet, making it an "end of an era" rather than the "end of the world".

Schweitzer claimed Jesus taught "interim ethics"—rules only for the short time before the end. Jesus’ ethical teachings, such as loving neighbors and caring for the poor, are presented as eternal principles, not temporary rules tailored for an apocalypse that failed to arrive.

The core of Jesus’s message—the "good news" of the kingdom—was meant to be joyous (like a wedding feast), whereas a purely apocalyptic, imminent end is a terrifying prospect that does not align with the majority of his parables.

Scholars like Richard Horsley suggest that projecting a modern, "end times" obsession onto 1st-century Jewish figures is anachronistic and overlooks the political and social reform aspects of Jesus's ministry.

Schweitzer's own admission, that the Jesus he found was a reflection of his own era's intellectual problems, is frequently cited to argue that he forced the text to fit his own predefined, consistent apocalyptic thesis.

 

[alang1216]

So because Jesus supposedly thought the end of the world was immanent being the king of the Jews was unimportant?

Who said that?

How did Albert know what Jesus instructed the disciples if it was done in private?

There are numerous passages of private interactions.

Jesus never preached the end of the word is coming. If it were as you claim, that would have been his core message and it wasn't. Not even close.

This is yet another example of making stuff up because you can't bear to accept what the evidence shows. I didn't make this up this is generally accepted by biblical scholars.

Jesus focused on a transformation of life rather than a catastrophic end. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God was already present through his ministry, rather than exclusively a future, apocalyptic event (i.e. 17:21 "the kingdom of God is in the midst of you"). Matthew 10:23 and Mark 9:1 which refer to the Transfiguration, his crucifixion (i.e. the destruction of the Temple) and his resurrection, rather than the end of the physical world. Many of Jesus's warnings in the Olivet Discourse (Mark 13/Matt 24) relate specifically to the impending crisis of the Roman destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, not the immediate cessation of the planet, making it an "end of an era" rather than the "end of the world".

Jesus’ apocalyptic sayings proclaim that God would soon intervene to overthrow evil, establish His kingdom, and send a cosmic judge (the Son of Man) within a generation. Key themes include the imminent destruction of the Temple, the "end of the age," and the need for repentance. You are welcome to your interpretations but I generally nod toward scholars interpretations.

 

[BreezeWood]

Probably because you can't be understood most of the time.

- do you or do you not repudiate the false (commandments) of judaism claimed from the heavens used by the desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

- this time is different ...

you are not fluent in religion is your problem - ignorance and residence in texas the bible belt is not anyone's fault but your own.

 

[ding]

- this time is different ...

No. It's not different. You don't know how to properly communicate your points to others. I'm sure it makes sense in your head, but not to others.

you are not fluent in religion is your problem - ignorance and residence in texas the bible belt is not anyone's fault but your own.

I couldn't be happier for you to believe that.

 

[ding]

Who said that?

That seems to be what you are arguing.

There are numerous passages of private interactions.

I suggest you do an accounting of the verses about end times versus everything else. Jesus spoke about the "end of times" (eschatology) very little. They constitute a relatively small fraction of his overall recorded words compared to his teachings on the Kingdom of God, love, faith, and daily discipleship. You are trying to make it THE central theme when it's not and there is literally zero evidence to support your contention that Jesus told his disciples that he is the king of the Jews. Just as there is no evidence that Judas told the religious leaders that Jesus said he was the king of the Jews.

The most significant block of teaching on the end times is the Olivet Discourse, found in Matthew 24–25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. This discourse, given in response to questions about the destruction of the Temple and the end of the age, covers signs of the end, such as false messiahs, wars, persecution, and the Second Coming. These topics make up a small portion of the total record.

The vast majority of Jesus's recorded teachings and activities focus on the Kingdom of God, daily living and love, law and ethics and his healing and miracles. The primary theme of Jesus's ministry was the present and future reality of the Kingdom of God. Teachings on loving God and neighbors (Matthew 22:37-40), the Beatitudes (Matthew 5), forgiveness, and serving others. There were extensive teachings on the true meaning of the law, humility, and the hypocrisies of the religious leadership. Many of Jesus's recorded actions and sayings focus on healing the sick and performing miracles, such as those recorded in John's Gospel (e.g., healing a blind man, raising Lazarus).

The vast majority of the "red letter" words deal with instructions for life, faith, and the nature of God's Kingdom, rather than the chronological details of the end of the world.

This is yet another example of making stuff up because you can't bear to accept what the evidence shows.

It's you who is making stuff up. You made up that Jesus told his disciples that he is the king of the Jews. You made up Judas telling the religious leaders that Jesus told him that his is the king of the Jews. The gospels make a concerted effort to portray Jesus as divine. You are the one dismissing everything written in the gospels about Jesus.

I didn't make this up this is generally accepted by biblical scholars.

What exactly is generally accepted by biblical scholars? That Jesus told his disciples that he is the king of the Jews? That Judas told the religious leaders that Jesus is the king of the Jews?

Because scholarly consensus holds that religious leaders reframed a theological conflict into a political charge of sedition to ensure Roman execution. Because the Sanhedrin lacked authority for capital punishment, they presented Jesus to Pilate as a rival to Caesar, turning a domestic religious dispute into a capital offense against Rome.

 

[alang1216]

That seems to be what you are arguing.

Exactly NOT what I was arguing.

I suggest you do an accounting of the verses about end times versus everything else. Jesus spoke about the "end of times" (eschatology) very little. They constitute a relatively small fraction of his overall recorded words compared to his teachings on the Kingdom of God, love, faith, and daily discipleship. You are trying to make it THE central theme when it's not and there is literally zero evidence to support your contention that Jesus told his disciples that he is the king of the Jews. Just as there is no evidence that Judas told the religious leaders that Jesus said he was the king of the Jews.

Actually the overall number of his undisputed words is tiny and much was embellished by later theologians and scribes.

AI: Did Jesus speak about the "end of times" (eschatology) very little?

Contrary to the notion that Jesus spoke little on the end times, his teachings on eschatology—particularly in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21)—are central to his ministry. He spoke extensively about the destruction of the Temple, his second coming, and the final judgment, often emphasizing watchfulness.
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Key aspects of Jesus's teachings on the "end of times" include:

• The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24 and corresponding chapters in Mark and Luke are dedicated to his warnings about future, dramatic apocalyptic events, including the rise of the Antichrist, cosmic signs, and the gathering of the elect.
• The Destruction of Jerusalem: Many of his prophecies referred to the destruction of the Temple and city, which happened later, serving as a judgment.
• The Unknown Time: Jesus repeatedly taught that while signs would appear, no one would know the exact day or hour of his return, thus urging constant readiness.
• Urgency over Timing: While he did provide signs, he emphasized that the focus should be on spiritual readiness ("watching") rather than calculating the exact time.
• "This Generation": Jesus’s statement in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" is often interpreted as referring to the destruction of the Temple or the fulfillment of prophecy.
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While some debate the focus of his teachings, they were not sparse; they formed a crucial component of his message to the disciples regarding the future of the Kingdom.

The vast majority of Jesus's recorded teachings and activities focus on the Kingdom of God, daily living and love, law and ethics and his healing and miracles. The primary theme of Jesus's ministry was the present and future reality of the Kingdom of God. Teachings on loving God and neighbors (Matthew 22:37-40), the Beatitudes (Matthew 5), forgiveness, and serving others. There were extensive teachings on the true meaning of the law, humility, and the hypocrisies of the religious leadership. Many of Jesus's recorded actions and sayings focus on healing the sick and performing miracles, such as those recorded in John's Gospel (e.g., healing a blind man, raising Lazarus).

The vast majority of the "red letter" words deal with instructions for life, faith, and the nature of God's Kingdom, rather than the chronological details of the end of the world.

His message was that the end times were imminent so people should be ready.

It's you who is making stuff up. You made up that Jesus told his disciples that he is the king of the Jews. You made up Judas telling the religious leaders that Jesus told him that his is the king of the Jews. The gospels make a concerted effort to portray Jesus as divine. You are the one dismissing everything written in the gospels about Jesus.

I was merely echoing theories by esteemed biblical scholars. I made up nothing.

 

[ding]

His message was that the end times were imminent so people should be ready.

I'm running short on time so I'll respond to the rest later but this is important because it explains the rest.

No. That wasn't his message. What you are trying to do is to deflect his message and make it about something else. This was his message.

Jesus taught the messiah wouldn't be a king who conquered nations. Jesus taught the messiah would be a suffering servant that conquered death. Jesus taught that true righteousness is about a transformed heart, love for God, and love for neighbors, rather than merely keeping external rules. He fulfilled the law by focusing on intent over action—teaching that inner attitudes like hatred or lust are as sinful as actions, while emphasizing mercy over rigid legalism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared that inner thoughts (hatred, lust) are equivalent to acts (murder, adultery) in God's eyes. He pushed beyond mere conformity to a list of rules to demand true righteousness. Jesus defied religious leaders by healing on the Sabbath and allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, declaring that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus summarized all laws as loving God wholeheartedly and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He argued that following these two principles is the essence of true obedience. He frequently broke with the traditions of the Pharisees, such as ceremonial hand-washing, arguing that what truly defiles a person comes from the heart, not from unwashed hands. Jesus taught that followers should keep his commands out of love for him, rather than keeping rules to gain merit or out of a sense of legal obligation.

 

[alang1216]

I'm running short on time so I'll respond to the rest later but this is important because it explains the rest.

No. That wasn't his message. What you are trying to do is to deflect his message and make it about something else. This was his message.

Jesus taught the messiah wouldn't be a king who conquered nations. Jesus taught the messiah would be a suffering servant that conquered death. Jesus taught that true righteousness is about a transformed heart, love for God, and love for neighbors, rather than merely keeping external rules. He fulfilled the law by focusing on intent over action—teaching that inner attitudes like hatred or lust are as sinful as actions, while emphasizing mercy over rigid legalism. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus declared that inner thoughts (hatred, lust) are equivalent to acts (murder, adultery) in God's eyes. He pushed beyond mere conformity to a list of rules to demand true righteousness. Jesus defied religious leaders by healing on the Sabbath and allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath, declaring that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus summarized all laws as loving God wholeheartedly and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He argued that following these two principles is the essence of true obedience. He frequently broke with the traditions of the Pharisees, such as ceremonial hand-washing, arguing that what truly defiles a person comes from the heart, not from unwashed hands. Jesus taught that followers should keep his commands out of love for him, rather than keeping rules to gain merit or out of a sense of legal obligation.

What you are doing is focusing on the part of his message that you want and ignoring the parts you are not as comfortable with. He may have preached love but he also preached conflict, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Hit 'em straight.

 

[ding]

What you are doing is focusing on the part of his message that you want and ignoring the parts you are not as comfortable with. He may have preached love but he also preached conflict, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Incorrect. That is what you are doing. Do you know how relatively few the number of verses there about end of times? Where are all the repent for the end is near verses by Jesus? If it was as you say, why wasn't that the only thing Jesus was preaching. Because if it were as you are claiming, nothing else mattered because Jesus believed the world was going to end and he would be the post apocalypse king of the Jews. Why even worry about ethics and law or how you treated your neighbor or all the miracles he performed?

Rather than argue the gospels were a conspiracy or that they were accidentally embellished by his disciples misunderstanding what Jesus was saying and doing, you have taken a third route, a new route; that Jesus was delusional.

Hit 'em straight.

Course is closed on Mondays, but I have been playing well as of late. I had chores that needed doing. I treated each and everyone like a sacred act. Trying to stay present. Or as I like to describe it soaking in existence. In the course of my work I realized I needed to trust God more. So I'm going to work on that.

 

[ding]

Exactly NOT what I was arguing.

So you are arguing that Jesus is delusional?

 

[BreezeWood]

No. It's not different. You don't know how to properly communicate your points to others. I'm sure it makes sense in your head, but not to others.

I couldn't be happier for you to believe that.

- do you or do you not repudiate the false (commandments) of judaism claimed from the heavens used by the desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

- just answer the question ... let one know what you do not understand.