POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[Care4all]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

FYI-
There is no proof it came from the Wuhan wet market. The corona virus that we've had, has never jumped from bats directly to humans.....the other corona viruses jumped from bats to a domestic animal like cats, then it jumped from the domestic animal to humans, from what I was recently reading on The Lancet.

 

[U2Edge]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Where are you getting these graphs and why is there a data point behind March 30?

I've been plotting the numbers from this site:

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

I'm trying to project out to 3/30 since that is when Pence's 15-day period is over.
I admit now the number looks too optimistic, but it was based on projecting the number of new cases.
I think all of the new testing capacity is skewing the numbers up somewhat.
Hoping that a few more days to 3/30 will show a tapering off of new cases, but there are so many actions affecting the numbers, like letting prisoners out of prison?! Who knows how many of them are infected.?

I think you have to get at least two weeks into a full lockdown before you can really start to look at numbers for a particular county or country.

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

Still, most medical professionals and governments believe in and are implementing the lockdown strategy. The strategy is to lockdown and attempt to eradicate the current outbreak. China has largely succeeded in doing this. That's what the factual data shows. If and when there is another outbreak, we'll be far better prepared for it than this one. We'll go back into lockdown then to eradicate the new outbreak. By the third outbreak, if there is one, there will be a vaccine. The seasonal flu vaccine works wonders every year. I'm sure a vaccine for this virus will work as well.

Right now, much of the world is way behind and digging a deeper hole because they did not start and follow China's lockdown model when they should have.

 

[Crixus]

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

Shit twice and die.

 

[Care4all]

China locked down for 8 weeks....

South Korea was very good too, what they did was test, test, test.... those with the virus, and even those not showing signs of being sick were quarantined in special facilities, away from their families.... a true quarantine from others....

The key for both China and South Korea, was testing in mass, everyone they could, the quarantined being real quarantine, not shuttered at home, for those testing positive...but separated from family and society....

South Korea did not have to close down to contain it... simply massive testing, and true quarantine.

 

[BluesLegend]

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

Shit twice and die.

LOL contain your hate lib.

 

[sakinago]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

FYI-
There is no proof it came from the Wuhan wet market. The corona virus that we've had, has never jumped from bats directly to humans.....the other corona viruses jumped from bats to a domestic animal like cats, then it jumped from the domestic animal to humans, from what I was recently reading on The Lancet.

Jesus Christ how many times do I have to explain why the wet markets are so dangerous. It’s the combination of all the wild animals and humans, in unsanitary crowded conditions that gives an extremely rare event to have multiple rolls of the dice. A virus has to first mutate into a form that can infect humans rare, but viruses mutate a lot. The animal that has the virus then needs to interact with humans in a meaningful way, enough to get a viral load large enough to make a human sick, an extremely rare event. Especially if you practice immunization of animals, proper storage and cleaning of animals quarters, proper butchery, proper food prep, and proper cooking. All those things makes the diseases from our domestic livestock virtually impossible to jump from them to us.

Now whatever you read is bullshit. It’s requiring 4 extremely rare events to happen, vs just the 2 in an area where conditions are perfect for it. The first extremely rare event is a virus has to mutate into a form that can infect cats, inside a wild bat. Then that bat has to interact with a common house cat in a significant way in order to infect that cat. Extremely rare, wild bats and cats don’t interact that often. Here’s the problem, cats and dogs run at a higher temperature than we do, this is why viruses in dogs and cats don’t pass to us, and vice versa. Their viruses like warmer temps, ours like colder temps. So this would have to be some sort of super virus that can survive both cats and humans, pretty sure that doesn’t exist. Sometimes pets can be transmitter, something survives in their mouth or nose or whatever, but that doesn’t last long. Then the virus has to mutate again in the cat, before it dies off from the cats immunity, and then has to jump to humans. It’s the equivalent of 00 hitting 30 times in a row in roulette. Mind you the record is black hitting 16 times in a row. The virus jumping from wild bats to humans in the wet markets is more like black hitting 9-10 times in a row. Very rare, but with enough spins it will eventually happen. Even if it did jump from bats to cats to humans. It did so because captive wild bats were in a cage in a wet market, a cat was fucking with them, became a temporary incubator, passed it on to some human. Again still more rare than a bat just passing it onto a human. I say captive bats, because when they fly, their body heats up to fever like temps, And that daily fluctuation of body temps gives them a naturally immunity to many diseases. But if they’re sitting in a cage all day and night, starving, now they become immuno-compromised, the diseases preferring colder body temps see their chance and begin to wreak havoc. So of course this disease started in the wet markets. Whatever you’re reading is just Chinese propaganda, whether they know it or not. They don’t want the wet markets to shut down, they have a weird obsession with eating rare/wild animals, and making various home remedies out of rare/wild animals. They are the number one drivers of poaching.

 

[sakinago]

China locked down for 8 weeks....

South Korea was very good too, what they did was test, test, test.... those with the virus, and even those not showing signs of being sick were quarantined in special facilities, away from their families.... a true quarantine from others....

The key for both China and South Korea, was testing in mass, everyone they could, the quarantined being real quarantine, not shuttered at home, for those testing positive...but separated from family and society....

South Korea did not have to close down to contain it... simply massive testing, and true quarantine.

Testing doesn’t do much to contain. I’m sure it helped them, but what really helped them is the fact that they wear masks when there isn’t a pandemic. They just upped their game during the pandemic and you basically couldn’t shop anywhere without a mask. The Koreans and Japanese are both very clean and sanitary cultures. Idk why people are making such a big deal of the testing. Especially in America. People are only going to get tested once they have symptoms, or when someone close to them does. By that time it’s too late, you’ve probably already spread it to 2-3 other people. You’ll get 5% who are Boy/girl Scouts, who get tested just because (which won’t do anything because they could still pick it up at any time) and then 5%-10% bad apples who won’t get tested even when experiencing symptoms.

 

[U2Edge]

China locked down for 8 weeks....

South Korea was very good too, what they did was test, test, test.... those with the virus, and even those not showing signs of being sick were quarantined in special facilities, away from their families.... a true quarantine from others....

The key for both China and South Korea, was testing in mass, everyone they could, the quarantined being real quarantine, not shuttered at home, for those testing positive...but separated from family and society....

South Korea did not have to close down to contain it... simply massive testing, and true quarantine.

Testing doesn’t do much to contain. I’m sure it helped them, but what really helped them is the fact that they wear masks when there isn’t a pandemic. They just upped their game during the pandemic and you basically couldn’t shop anywhere without a mask. The Koreans and Japanese are both very clean and sanitary cultures. Idk why people are making such a big deal of the testing. Especially in America. People are only going to get tested once they have symptoms, or when someone close to them does. By that time it’s too late, you’ve probably already spread it to 2-3 other people. You’ll get 5% who are Boy/girl Scouts, who get tested just because (which won’t do anything because they could still pick it up at any time) and then 5%-10% bad apples who won’t get tested even when experiencing symptoms.

Testing does do a lot to contain when its paired with contact tracing. You can also do random testing on members of the population to estimate if there is any spread within a certain area, regardless of symptoms. With the current spread though, a lockdown is what is needed. Once numbers decline though, then testing will be vital to detect where the Virus is as well as detecting a 2nd mass outbreak. Testing is the ONLY way, you know what is happening. Without testing, you don't know where the enemy is, where to focus resources, who to isolate, etc. There is no indication that other countries would be unable to replicate what has happened in China and Japan. It will take longer, but provided many of the same key methods are adopted, as Bill Gates has said, we should be able to get this under control by June or July, at least in the United States.

 

[Care4all]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

FYI-
There is no proof it came from the Wuhan wet market. The corona virus that we've had, has never jumped from bats directly to humans.....the other corona viruses jumped from bats to a domestic animal like cats, then it jumped from the domestic animal to humans, from what I was recently reading on The Lancet.

Jesus Christ how many times do I have to explain why the wet markets are so dangerous. It’s the combination of all the wild animals and humans, in unsanitary crowded conditions that gives an extremely rare event to have multiple rolls of the dice. A virus has to first mutate into a form that can infect humans rare, but viruses mutate a lot. The animal that has the virus then needs to interact with humans in a meaningful way, enough to get a viral load large enough to make a human sick, an extremely rare event. Especially if you practice immunization of animals, proper storage and cleaning of animals quarters, proper butchery, proper food prep, and proper cooking. All those things makes the diseases from our domestic livestock virtually impossible to jump from them to us.

Now whatever you read is bullshit. It’s requiring 4 extremely rare events to happen, vs just the 2 in an area where conditions are perfect for it. The first extremely rare event is a virus has to mutate into a form that can infect cats, inside a wild bat. Then that bat has to interact with a common house cat in a significant way in order to infect that cat. Extremely rare, wild bats and cats don’t interact that often. Here’s the problem, cats and dogs run at a higher temperature than we do, this is why viruses in dogs and cats don’t pass to us, and vice versa. Their viruses like warmer temps, ours like colder temps. So this would have to be some sort of super virus that can survive both cats and humans, pretty sure that doesn’t exist. Sometimes pets can be transmitter, something survives in their mouth or nose or whatever, but that doesn’t last long. Then the virus has to mutate again in the cat, before it dies off from the cats immunity, and then has to jump to humans. It’s the equivalent of 00 hitting 30 times in a row in roulette. Mind you the record is black hitting 16 times in a row. The virus jumping from wild bats to humans in the wet markets is more like black hitting 9-10 times in a row. Very rare, but with enough spins it will eventually happen. Even if it did jump from bats to cats to humans. It did so because captive wild bats were in a cage in a wet market, a cat was fucking with them, became a temporary incubator, passed it on to some human. Again still more rare than a bat just passing it onto a human. I say captive bats, because when they fly, their body heats up to fever like temps, And that daily fluctuation of body temps gives them a naturally immunity to many diseases. But if they’re sitting in a cage all day and night, starving, now they become immuno-compromised, the diseases preferring colder body temps see their chance and begin to wreak havoc. So of course this disease started in the wet markets. Whatever you’re reading is just Chinese propaganda, whether they know it or not. They don’t want the wet markets to shut down, they have a weird obsession with eating rare/wild animals, and making various home remedies out of rare/wild animals. They are the number one drivers of poaching.

JChrist had nothing to do with it.

13 of the first 41 covid19 patients had ZERO connection to the wet market in Wuhan... never had been or came in contact with anyone that had....

In this link, you can find the link to the Lancet...

New Coronavirus May Not Have Originated in Wuhan: Lancet Report | NewsClick

According to the report, the earliest case could be dated to December 1, 2019 and this had no link with the seafood market, which was so far accepted as the place of origin of the virus.

www.newsclick.in

 

[Slyhunter]

China locked down for 8 weeks....

South Korea was very good too, what they did was test, test, test.... those with the virus, and even those not showing signs of being sick were quarantined in special facilities, away from their families.... a true quarantine from others....

The key for both China and South Korea, was testing in mass, everyone they could, the quarantined being real quarantine, not shuttered at home, for those testing positive...but separated from family and society....

South Korea did not have to close down to contain it... simply massive testing, and true quarantine.

people should be free to work if they chose to. We can't shut down for 8 weeks we'll run out of toilet paper.

 

[sparky]

Since this is a TRUMP ZOMBIE forum, the poll numbers will be in favor of opening up NON-ESSENTIAL Business. They don't understand or care how many Americans they will kill or at least put at risk of death.

There is only one way to kill the Pathogen.

Think about what the United States did during World War II. 16 million men and women left the country and went overseas. People went to work in factories

3. HELL NO unless they provide an essential service.

Name one epidemiologist that advocates opening up non-essential business during this pandemic! Name one!

I live in the United States.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them.

I think you have to get at least two weeks into a full lockdown before you can really start to look at numbers for a particular county or country.

We got the national guards and that ain’t all
We got the CDC testing us at the mall
Gman curfew's got a hold of me, too
I got the jack boot pneumonia and the boggie wuhan flu

Got all my flights canceled to China ‘til fall
Went for a dump but there’s no TP at al
Gman curfew's got a hold of me too
I got the jack boot pneumonia and the boggie wuhan flu


I Wanna sneeze but I’m afraid I’ll show
Telling symptoms fema says got to go
Gman curfew's got a hold of me, too
I got the jack boot pneumonia and the boggie wuhan flu


Gotta quarantine for what I don’t know
My nose is runnin' but my fevers low
Gman curfew's got a hold of me, too
I got the jack boot pneumonia and the boggie wuhan flu


I gotta a potus sezs he’s got the plan
He was on TV , claims he is the man
Gman curfew's got me feelin’ blue
I got the jack boot pneumonia and the boggie wuhan flu

~S~w /apologies to Mr Rivers

 

[Zander]

Approx. 2,800,000 die per year.
7600 Americans die every day.

Time to get back to work.

 

[WEATHER53]

Big freak out over a medium virus

 

[sparky]

Everything is locked down here, anything functioning is either via drive up, take out or call in. Only the bigger supermarkets let public in, and those that do have 6' barriers at checkouts

I'm working out of an unmarked van, no company colors, with other trades that all have 1/2 an eye out for the sheriff who's throwing construction workers off jobs

It wouldn't be so bad, if we could collect, but the state turned their back on us, and the fed money CARES is hamstrung in state congress

So we have no choice , and that ultimatum is handed down by folks we pay to make choices, tell us 'we're all in this together' ,and collect their tax paid paychecks

And you want to equate this to the greatest generations war efforts?

boulderdash....poppycock ...and guffaw!!!!

~S~

 

[basquebromance]

when the cynics said we can't get out of The Great Depression, its too hard, we said YES WE CAN!

No matter how bad the storm gets, no matter how tough things get, remember...YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN...KILL THE CHINESE VIRUS!

YES WE CAN...ELIMINATE THE HIDDEN ENEMY!

YES! WE! CAN!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

I haven't stopped working

 

[sparky]

YES WE CAN...KILL THE CHINESE VIRUS!

and our economy with it Basq?

~S~

 

[Contumacious]

China locked down for 8 weeks....

South Korea was very good too, what they did was test, test, test.... those with the virus, and even those not showing signs of being sick were quarantined in special facilities, away from their families.... a true quarantine from others....

The key for both China and South Korea, was testing in mass, everyone they could, the quarantined being real quarantine, not shuttered at home, for those testing positive...but separated from family and society....

South Korea did not have to close down to contain it... simply massive testing, and true quarantine.

According to the WHO, “there is no evidence that coronavirus can be transmitted before symptom development or in early symptomatic stages.” Therefore, the WHO did not recommend quarantine nor isolation of asymptomatic contacts during this period.”

The country involved was the Republic of Korea. The strain of coronavirus was identified as the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS). Korea learned from its experience in 2015 and managed to minimize the public fear and overreaction in the recent COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak of 2020 without shutting down its economy, said a report in The New York Times.

What Happened When a Country Was Quarantined and Locked Down Due to a Coronavirus Outbreak - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

.


,

 

[otto105]

We need to open up for business, America. America has never tolerated living on her knees in conformity. If we die, we die on our feet. with our boots on . . .

Why have you not died for your country yet, too pussy?

 

[sakinago]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise â as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

FYI-
There is no proof it came from the Wuhan wet market. The corona virus that we've had, has never jumped from bats directly to humans.....the other corona viruses jumped from bats to a domestic animal like cats, then it jumped from the domestic animal to humans, from what I was recently reading on The Lancet.

Jesus Christ how many times do I have to explain why the wet markets are so dangerous. It’s the combination of all the wild animals and humans, in unsanitary crowded conditions that gives an extremely rare event to have multiple rolls of the dice. A virus has to first mutate into a form that can infect humans rare, but viruses mutate a lot. The animal that has the virus then needs to interact with humans in a meaningful way, enough to get a viral load large enough to make a human sick, an extremely rare event. Especially if you practice immunization of animals, proper storage and cleaning of animals quarters, proper butchery, proper food prep, and proper cooking. All those things makes the diseases from our domestic livestock virtually impossible to jump from them to us.

Now whatever you read is bullshit. It’s requiring 4 extremely rare events to happen, vs just the 2 in an area where conditions are perfect for it. The first extremely rare event is a virus has to mutate into a form that can infect cats, inside a wild bat. Then that bat has to interact with a common house cat in a significant way in order to infect that cat. Extremely rare, wild bats and cats don’t interact that often. Here’s the problem, cats and dogs run at a higher temperature than we do, this is why viruses in dogs and cats don’t pass to us, and vice versa. Their viruses like warmer temps, ours like colder temps. So this would have to be some sort of super virus that can survive both cats and humans, pretty sure that doesn’t exist. Sometimes pets can be transmitter, something survives in their mouth or nose or whatever, but that doesn’t last long. Then the virus has to mutate again in the cat, before it dies off from the cats immunity, and then has to jump to humans. It’s the equivalent of 00 hitting 30 times in a row in roulette. Mind you the record is black hitting 16 times in a row. The virus jumping from wild bats to humans in the wet markets is more like black hitting 9-10 times in a row. Very rare, but with enough spins it will eventually happen. Even if it did jump from bats to cats to humans. It did so because captive wild bats were in a cage in a wet market, a cat was fucking with them, became a temporary incubator, passed it on to some human. Again still more rare than a bat just passing it onto a human. I say captive bats, because when they fly, their body heats up to fever like temps, And that daily fluctuation of body temps gives them a naturally immunity to many diseases. But if they’re sitting in a cage all day and night, starving, now they become immuno-compromised, the diseases preferring colder body temps see their chance and begin to wreak havoc. So of course this disease started in the wet markets. Whatever you’re reading is just Chinese propaganda, whether they know it or not. They don’t want the wet markets to shut down, they have a weird obsession with eating rare/wild animals, and making various home remedies out of rare/wild animals. They are the number one drivers of poaching.

JChrist had nothing to do with it.

13 of the first 41 covid19 patients had ZERO connection to the wet market in Wuhan... never had been or came in contact with anyone that had....

In this link, you can find the link to the Lancet...

New Coronavirus May Not Have Originated in Wuhan: Lancet Report | NewsClick

According to the report, the earliest case could be dated to December 1, 2019 and this had no link with the seafood market, which was so far accepted as the place of origin of the virus.

www.newsclick.in

Okay I’m going to say this again, because for whatever reason the left is pushing this idea that it didn’t come from the wet markets, and China is not to blame. It’s straight up Chinese propaganda, I know that sounds harsh, but that’s the truth. Epidemiologists have been petitioning the world and China to regulate Chinas wet markets for decades now. Not just epidemiologist but animal rights organizations as well. This has been a political battle for decades, but most of y’all have only heard about recently. This political battle with epidemiologist is why China initially tried to cover this up. For whatever reason, the Chinese population loves to eat/consume wild animals. It’s a cultural thing. The closer to extinction it is, the better. China does not want to regulate them, it’d be like the rest of the world asking us to regulate football and rename it to American rugby or some shit. It’s not just a seafood market either like this article claims, that’s probably a different market they’re referring too. It’s basically a farmers market, where they sell literally EVERYTHING. Again this is a political battle that has been raging behind the scenes for decades, just nobody in America has really cared about unless you’re in the healthcare industry.

So, to those of you on the left, who think Fox News will twist the news to make it seem like trump can do no wrong. We’re talking about China, a government that is so tight with info, they’ll go as far as banning Winnie the Pooh because it looks like Xi. China is Fox News on steroids, and Russian election meddlers mixed together in one powerful propaganda cocktail.

here is a line from the article you listed.
“The Lancet paper was co-authored by a large group of Chinese researchers from several institutions.”
you have to understand that the article you posted is not a study. It is something to make the Chinese government look good. It’s the same government that tried to destroy the evidence of what covid is and how it came about. They’ve been caught red handed doing that, so the question is why would they try to cover this up? Like I said in the first paragraph...this political battle has been raging for decades. You didn’t hear about any articles talking about where H1N1, or Ebola came from...now it’s a trending topic. Why is that? Again, a international political battle that has been waged for decades. That’s why there’s so much speculation on the origins for covid. It’s important that the epidemiologist win this battle, not China. If China wins, this will be a regular occurrence every 15 years or so.