POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[Slyhunter]

W

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

We have flu vaccines.

Get one.

Yet despite those vaccines we still lose thousands every year and don't lose our shit over it.
The vaccines are no guarantee either as they are developed each year with the expected strains which are not always in line with actual strains that may spread in any particular year.
A clue.
Get one.

1. This is not the FLU.
Death rate is calculated by deaths divided by infections. Flu at best has a .1% death rate. Coronavirus death rates depending on state or country are anywhere between 3% and 10%. So 30 to 100 times WORSE than flu.

2. With seasonal Flu there is a vaccine. Its people who don't get the vaccine that account for the large percentage of deaths. There is currently no vaccine for Coronavirus. Coronavirus is anywhere from 30 to 100 times more deadly than seasonal flu.

3. I challenge you to name a country that is not locking itself down and taking this seriously!

Meanwhile someone has to make the toilet paper.

 

[Brain357]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

 

[2aguy]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Since this is a TRUMP ZOMBIE forum, the poll numbers will be in favor of opening up NON-ESSENTIAL Business. They don't understand or care how many Americans they will kill or at least put at risk of death.

This is not the time to be like a 20 year old idiot at the beach, thinking everything is normal.

Ah, but since most people HERE will fall in line with anything Trump says, the results of this poll are predictable.

Thank God Trump will no longer be President after the end of this year!

Yeah....have you seen Joe "Where am I," Biden over the last couple of days?

You should inform President Hilary that Joe has it in the bag......

 

[lennypartiv]

Let the science guide

Sure, let's let liberal science professors from the liberal colleges decide how our economy should work. NOT!

 

[Contumacious]

Governor Tim Walz (D) Mn. Has so far declined a complete shutdown beyond sports, and restaurants despite testing positive himself and the Lt. Governor losing a brother. He has watched the numbers and relied on the many leading experts from the UofM and Mayo clinic. He stated the restaurants may be closed for months, but knows that a full shutdown will ruin far more financially when the numbers just don't add up to take such an extreme measure.

You don't listen to a Governor on how to fight a pandemic, you listen to an epidemiologist.

The opening of non-essential business's is not worth killing people. No ones stock options or Savings is worth killing people, continuing the spread of the virus and destroying the healthcare system. This is a WAR where everyone has to do their part in DEFEATING THE PATHOGEN. For millions of people, that means you stay in your HOUSE! Don't allow your self to become a VECTOR to spread the virus!

Here's how we're being taken hostage, America.

Imagine a mom who lost her baby in a car accident. She sits you down on your couch and screeches DON"T GET IN A CAR IT'S A DEATH TRAP YOU COULD GET SOMEONE KILLED CHOOSE LIFE

But you say, "Well I have to get to work, you know, I have to feed my family. Plus, I'm a safe driver. You know I don't text and drive, I don't drink and drive...."

"YOU JUST WANT TO KILL BABIES"

This is how they're arguing, and this is where the arguments are going. We have never argued like this, and we can't. For obvious reasons. But their hair is on fire here.

Yep, real scientific there. Name one epidemiologist that advocates opening up non-essential business during this pandemic! Name one!

Name one country in the world that is NOT locking itself down to defend against this pandemic! Name One!

Quarantines May Backfire

A couple of decades ago it was epidemiologist Edgar Hope Simpson who asked some questions about the incongruities between published dogma about the spread of flu viruses and current epidemics that caused him to ask these questions:

• Where is the flu virus in between epidemics?
• Why do flu epidemics end so abruptly?
• What explains the frequent coincidental timing of flu epidemics in countries located at a similar north-south latitude?
• Why, in previous ages, did epidemics spread so rapidly despite the lack of modern transportation?
• Why do volunteers who have flu virus instilled into their nasal passages fail to produce symptoms of the flu in all cases?
• Why do hospitalization and mortality rates fail to decline when vaccination rates dramatically increase?
• Why does the flu strike in concert with the earth tilting on its axis away from the sun during the Winter solstice in northern latitudes.

 

[kyzr]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.

 

[petro]

Mn just pulled the trigger for the next two weeks.
My wife goes on unemployment next week. I get to keep working as construction is considered vital and exempt.

 

[Slyhunter]

If everyone get full unemployment benefits why work? If nobody works who will make the Toilet Paper?

 

[U2Edge]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

 

[U2Edge]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Way too early to open anything at Easter given that U.S. cases are still growing at over 20% per day. Being open by the 4th of July is a realistic goal, PROVIDED there continues to be a strong lockdown until then.

 

[sakinago]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

 

[kyzr]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Way too early to open anything at Easter given that U.S. cases are still growing at over 20% per day. Being open by the 4th of July is a realistic goal, PROVIDED there continues to be a strong lockdown until then.

You may be right, the "new case" trends are not looking good for an early reopen. Lets follow the numbers another few weeks and see what's happening. I'm using this Johns Hopkins site, which is close the the other credible sites.

ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards

gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com

 

[colfax_m]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Where are you getting these graphs and why is there a data point behind March 30?

 

[Skull]

[...]
There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

Highly contagious Yes -
Deadly - No. The mortality rate is around 1%

The middle ground is to slowly open up in counties & regions that are cool regions - and they do exist now.

 

[kyzr]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Where are you getting these graphs and why is there a data point behind March 30?

I've been plotting the numbers from this site:

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

I'm trying to project out to 3/30 since that is when Pence's 15-day period is over.
I admit now the number looks too optimistic, but it was based on projecting the number of new cases.
I think all of the new testing capacity is skewing the numbers up somewhat.
Hoping that a few more days to 3/30 will show a tapering off of new cases, but there are so many actions affecting the numbers, like letting prisoners out of prison?! Who knows how many of them are infected.?

 

[colfax_m]

I think we have to see what happens between now and then. Last I checked we are still low on tests and probably don’t have full numbers of the problem.

The number of tests per day is in the hundreds of thousands, so that is no longer an issue, at least in most places. The current issue is when to start reopening businesses to restart the US economy. Pence's 15-day shelter-in-place period will end Monday 3/30. By that time, if everyone cooperates, the curves for both the US and the EU should be headed down. Is Easter, 4/12, too soon to start opening up businesses? We'll see.
View attachment 315493

Where are you getting these graphs and why is there a data point behind March 30?

I've been plotting the numbers from this site:

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

I'm trying to project out to 3/30 since that is when Pence's 15-day period is over.
I admit now the number looks too optimistic, but it was based on projecting the number of new cases.
I think all of the new testing capacity is skewing the numbers up somewhat.
Hoping that a few more days to 3/30 will show a tapering off of new cases, but there are so many actions affecting the numbers, like letting prisoners out of prison?! Who knows how many of them are infected.?

Is your “projection” based on anything other than your hope?

 

[U2Edge]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

 

[U2Edge]

[...]
There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

Highly contagious Yes -
Deadly - No. The mortality rate is around 1%

The middle ground is to slowly open up in counties & regions that are cool regions - and they do exist now.

You only open up a region when you can TEST to make sure there is not any new spread in that region. Otherwise, its a shot in the dark. Until testing ability reaches the level necessary and there is a reduction in the current spread, you stay locked down.

The Mortality rate is still being determined. In Washington State its 5%. In Italy its 10%.

Bill Gates correctly said the other day that there is no middle ground between locking down and opening up.

 

[sakinago]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

3rd option. Prep for a month. Then open everything back up. Still have elderly self quarantine. Go for herd immunity. With how fast this spreads it won’t be hard, and a lot quicker than a vaccine

The Herd immunity strategy will kill 2.4 million Americans and has been rejected by EVERY government on the planet.

You only re-open non-essential services when active cases have been reduced to the level that you are capable of tracking them and doing contact tracing for them. You have to get back to a situations where there is not community spread. Otherwise, the numbers would just sky rocket again along with deaths forcing another shut down and having it take longer to resolve the whole problem.

The Chinese lockdown has been successful and is the model to follow. While true China screwed around before they implemented their lockdown, once their lockdown was in place, it has achieved dramatic results. It takes time to achieve those results though. I'd say 10 weeks at least.

China now only has 3,460 active cases. Its possible that by mid-April, movie theaters in China will be open again. I don't think that will happen in the United States until June or July, PROVIDED the United States keeps non-essential services locked down until then.

There is NO middle ground when fighting a highly contagious and deadly PATHOGEN!

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Harvard just put out a study saying mass lockdowns are making the problem worse. South Korea, the UK, and Belgium (I believe), haven’t done mass shut downs, kept everything open except for large events like concerts and sports, and are taking the herd immunity approach, while protecting those who have risk factors. Because essentially EVERYONE, will catch this before a vaccine is produced. What you want is the healthy carriers to all catch it, get over it, so there’s no chance that they can effect the people who are risk factors. That’s what herd immunity is. The quarantining and social distancing are only there to slow the spread so hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. Shut downs, like in China, aren’t going to make this disappear, just delay the inevitable. Unless China truly put everyone on house arrest, which is possible, but I doubt that’ll even do the trick. China will most likely see a second spike.

Yes this has the potential to kill millions. But things can be done to prevent that. Once you end the shut down, this is just going to pop back up, because no one has immunity.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and 99% of governments and medical professionals say the Herd approach is not the way to go. What do you do in a house hold where there are people in their 40s and 80s living together? That's a more common set up around the world than you think.

We want to keep deaths in the United States as low as possible. The Herd approach won't achieve that and will kill 2.4 million people. Is Japan following the Herd approach? No! They have 1,387 infections and 47 deaths.

China has only 3,000 active cases left. They have held their total infections below 90,000 and deaths below 4,000. Remarkable in a country of 1.4 Billion people!

New Zealand, only 368 infections and NO deaths! Lockdown is the way to go! It saves lives and gives time for the medical community to develop new treatments as well as creating a vaccine for the virus.

I actually read this shit. Because it’s my job. I went to school for this shit. I’ve been spot on telling people what this is going to look like. The unfortunate truth is that the Chinese wet markets are playing with Fire. This time they opened Pandora’s box, and were lucky it isn’t worse. Epidemiologists have been screaming about these wet markets in China, with that kind of population, with that much air travel going on. This was inevitable. Now we have a new disease that’s going to be around permanently. There will be reemergence, and a vaccine isn’t going to do much good.

Social distancing strategies for curbing the COVID-19 epidemic

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is straining healthcare resources worldwide, prompting social distancing measures to reduce transmission intensity. The amount of social distancing needed to curb the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in the context of seasonally varying transmission remains unclear. Using a...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[Care4all]

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

Fyi, corona virus is NOT Influenza virus