POLL--31% voting for Obama BELIEVE they are going to get a TAX CUT!

[Care4all]

I agree with you. Now what do we do about it?

Answer: Expand the economy.

How? See above.

HOW does giving the middle class more of their own taxes back, so that they can spend it in the economy....hurt the economy and not grow it?

with mccain's tax cuts the middle class GETS CLOSE TO NOTHING...a hundred bucks verses a thousand bucks....that's a huge difference that has to be considered imo.

 

[The Paperboy]

HOW does giving the middle class more of their own taxes back, so that they can spend it in the economy....hurt the economy and not grow it?

I have no problem with a tax cut for the middle class.

I have a problem with sending a check to those who pay ZERO Federal Income Tax which is 40% of the 95% Obama refers to.

I'd have no problem paying more tax myself if it went to retire debt. But it won't. I will go to fund the one trillion in new spending Obama has promised.

With mccain's tax cuts the middle class GETS CLOSE TO NOTHING...a hundred bucks verses a thousand bucks....that's a huge difference that has to be considered imo.

I think the middle class would rather have policies that expanded jobs. I believe Obama's policies will be job killers.

I also think most people would like a tax cut as long as that doesn't mean increasing someone's else taxes to get it.

Even Obama has said he might have to hold off on his proposed tax increases because they'd be bad for the economy.

 

[DavidS]

We expand the economy by creating a strong and healthy middle class.

ObamaTaxCut.com - What's your Obama Tax Cut?

Exactly. The only way to get out of a recession is to increase consumer spending. You must increase demand. The best way to increase demand is to give those who create demand more of a reason to do just that. When consumers feel better about the economy, they will spend. The best thing to do is give them more money to spend so they don't feel things are so tight. If we give 100 million people on average of $750 extra, which is $7,500,000,000 extra money going into our economy. More demand = more jobs and more tax revenue going into Washington. People see that the economy is doing well again, they'll start spending more and the GDP will increase instead of contracting.

I hate to say it, but if Merryl Lynch, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Bear Sterns, AIG, Goldman Sachs, etc. had not been rescued, this economy would have collapsed.

 

[Annie]

Exactly. The only way to get out of a recession is to increase consumer spending. You must increase demand. The best way to increase demand is to give those who create demand more of a reason to do just that. When consumers feel better about the economy, they will spend. The best thing to do is give them more money to spend so they don't feel things are so tight. If we give 100 million people on average of $750 extra, which is $7,500,000,000 extra money going into our economy. More demand = more jobs and more tax revenue going into Washington. People see that the economy is doing well again, they'll start spending more and the GDP will increase instead of contracting.

I hate to say it, but if Merryl Lynch, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Bear Sterns, AIG, Goldman Sachs, etc. had not been rescued, this economy would have collapsed.

The 'stimulus' didn't work. Throwing more money at the same is not going to work.

Anyhow you asked for the vote by Obama, it didn't pass and was $42k for single payer:

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

 

[Navy1960]

I've tried to explain this many times, but let me try one more time, while it is true under Barack Obama you will see a tax cut if you earn "?" I put a big "?" there as within his organization they really don't seem as yet to have that number fixed. However, as a whole when all of the Obama policies are in place the tax cut for the Middle class will end up being a tax rise. So if this is the change you seek, then of course your going to get it.

Let's take the Obama "windfall profits" tax on on Oil compaines. this tax will be a pass thru tax., in that any rise in taxes upon these companies will passed onto the consumer as a rise in gas prices. That rise will see a rise in transportation of goods and services, food, goods, etc.

So yes, while you may realize a tax break at the expense of your employers and the wealthy, keep in mind that tax break may not last long when those very same employers and wealthy adjust to compensate for the rise in expense by laying off those very same Middle Class getting that Obama tax cut. In the end the Barack Obama tax cut shows a short sighted goal with long term problems, as does many of this programs.

 

[Chris]

I've tried to explain this many times, but let me try one more time, while it is true under Barack Obama you will see a tax cut if you earn "?" I put a big "?" there as within his organization they really don't seem as yet to have that number fixed. However, as a whole when all of the Obama policies are in place the tax cut for the Middle class will end up being a tax rise. So if this is the change you seek, then of course your going to get it.

Let's take the Obama "windfall profits" tax on on Oil compaines. this tax will be a pass thru tax., in that any rise in taxes upon these companies will passed onto the consumer as a rise in gas prices. That rise will see a rise in transportation of goods and services, food, goods, etc.

So yes, while you may realize a tax break at the expense of your employers and the wealthy, keep in mind that tax break may not last long when those very same employers and wealthy adjust to compensate for the rise in expense by laying off those very same Middle Class getting that Obama tax cut. In the end the Barack Obama tax cut shows a short sighted goal with long term problems, as does many of this programs.

Wrong.

The rich will just have to put off buying that new Lexus.

 

[Care4all]

I have no problem with a tax cut for the middle class.

I have a problem with sending a check to those who pay ZERO Federal Income Tax which is 40% of the 95% Obama refers to.

I'd have no problem paying more tax myself if it went to retire debt. But it won't. I will go to fund the one trillion in new spending Obama has promised.



I think the middle class would rather have policies that expanded jobs. I believe Obama's policies will be job killers.

I also think most people would like a tax cut as long as that doesn't mean increasing someone's else taxes to get it.

Even Obama has said he might have to hold off on his proposed tax increases because they'd be bad for the economy.

Well, i personally believe that raising taxes right now, while we are in a slump, is not gonna cut it either....i actually believe taxes on everyone, will eventually have to go up, even with cutting our spending, but this is not the time for that either....

And as far as the 40% that you speak about, they are already getting EIC and they already receive a check from our gvt for the Social security taxes THEY DO PAY....THIS is NOT something NEW from obama....the EIC has been supported by EVERY PRESIDENT and CONGRESS from both sides of the aisle since it was instituted and even with mccain's tax changes, these 40% will STILL be getting their EIC check...so it is deceiving of you and others to PRETEND this is not already happening and that it is not happening with mccain's plan as well.

Granted obama's plan increases the EIC amounts slightly for these WORKERS.

The EIC is THE MOST EFFECTIVE WELFARE PROGRAM THAT EXISTS TODAY....

It pays the people that ARE WORKING for a living not the IDLE that sit on their butts and do nothing.

These workers that get paid shit as pay, would make more on Welfare sitting at home than they do working, without an EIC credit for the SS taxes THEY DO PAY....thus, keeping the EIC in tack is KEY to the welfare reform instituted in 1996 by gingrich/clinton and is the key reason Welfare recipiants sitting on their butts was reduced from 5 million people to 2 million people by 2004.

The EIC given to these WORKERS is actually a GIFT HORSE to the businesses that hire and use THEM at cheap, cheap, cheap wages, to make their own personal PROFIT on their business....so actually it is a small Business Welfare program....not a welfare program for the poor.

The key to the EIC credit is that these people ARE WORKING FOR A LIVING....it is a GOOD THING paperboy, a GOOD thing....

Of course I would rather these Businesses pay more to this working class of people than what they do and not have to give the EIC at all, but this is not something these workers can do, but something the businesses that hire the cheap labor to make their own money.

that's my take on it....

Care

 

[jschuck12001]

Oh my God--this claim by Obama is probably the biggest farce I have seen in my 55 years. Coming from Obama's campaign rhetoric that he is only going to tax 5% of the population making over 250K & give 95%--or the rest of us a tax cut!

Frankly, I cannot believe that anyone would believe this huge farce. Let alone 31% of Americans--according to this poll--that are voting for Obama simply because they think they're going to get a tax cut with Obama as POTUS. Maybe this 31% represent the 40% in this country that pay no income taxes anyway, & they are looking for their welfare checks?

Now in the final days--we see that this 250K figure has come down to 150K according to Joe Biden, & then to 120K according to Democrat govenor Bill Richardson. This bar is going to come down much lower than this.

Obama states that we are "selfish" if we don't want to give the government more of our hard earned dollars. Yet, Americans are the most generous people on this earth. We still donate more money to people in need in this country & all over the world.

LET'S FACE IT FOLKS! There is no possible--accountable way that 5% of the population or those making over 250K per year, can give us all a tax break, pay for Obama's additional 1 TRILLION in new spending proposals, & give us all national health care insurance at the same time. It simply cannot be done. The only other place Obama can go for all this new spending & tax cuts is the middle class of this country. He will then re-distribute it to people who pay no income taxes.

If you're one of middle class tax payers in this country, voting for Obama simply because you believe you're going to get a tax cut, you are going to be extremely disappointed.

Your an idiot, I and many have posted the side by side tax breaks per income brackets from the tax policy center and Obama will give higher tax breaks, are you stupid.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, i personally believe that raising taxes right now, while we are in a slump, is not gonna cut it either....i actually believe taxes on everyone, will eventually have to go up, even with cutting our spending, but this is not the time for that either....

And as far as the 40% that you speak about, they are already getting EIC and they already receive a check from our gvt for the Social security taxes THEY DO PAY....THIS is NOT something NEW from obama....the EIC has been supported by EVERY PRESIDENT and CONGRESS from both sides of the aisle since it was instituted and even with mccain's tax changes, these 40% will STILL be getting their EIC check...so it is deceiving of you and others to PRETEND this is not already happening and that it is not happening with mccain's plan as well.

Granted obama's plan increases the EIC amounts slightly for these WORKERS.

The EIC is THE MOST EFFECTIVE WELFARE PROGRAM THAT EXISTS TODAY....

It pays the people that ARE WORKING for a living not the IDLE that sit on their butts and do nothing.

These workers that get paid shit as pay, would make more on Welfare sitting at home than they do working, without an EIC credit for the SS taxes THEY DO PAY....thus, keeping the EIC in tack is KEY to the welfare reform instituted in 1996 by gingrich/clinton and is the key reason Welfare recipiants sitting on their butts was reduced from 5 million people to 2 million people by 2004.

The EIC given to these WORKERS is actually a GIFT HORSE to the businesses that hire and use THEM at cheap, cheap, cheap wages, to make their own personal PROFIT on their business....so actually it is a small Business Welfare program....not a welfare program for the poor.

The key to the EIC credit is that these people ARE WORKING FOR A LIVING....it is a GOOD THING paperboy, a GOOD thing....

Of course I would rather these Businesses pay more to this working class of people than what they do and not have to give the EIC at all, but this is not something these workers can do, but something the businesses that hire the cheap labor to make their own money.

that's my take on it....

Care

Do you think the government should regulate salaries payed by private businesses ?

 

[The Paperboy]

Well, i personally believe that raising taxes right now, while we are in a slump, is not gonna cut it either....i actually believe taxes on everyone, will eventually have to go up, even with cutting our spending, but this is not the time for that either....

If raising taxes is bad now why would it be OK when the economy is "good"?

And as far as the 40% that you speak about...

You can try to spin it any way you want but Obama is proposing a new welfare system. Pure and simple.

And If Obama isn't going to increases taxes for awhile how will he "cut taxes'?

The key to the EIC credit is that these people ARE WORKING FOR A LIVING....it is a GOOD THING paperboy, a GOOD thing....

That is true.

So basically you advocate that I help pay them more. Fair enough. I disagree. I started with nothing, worked three minimum wage jobs to support a wife and two children. I did it on my own and that is also a GOOD thing. No government hand out needed or wanted.

I do not agree with redistribution of income. You apparently do. But my guess is that your taxes are not about to be raised.

Also keep in mind everyone will have a tax increase when Obama allows the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010.

 

[Navy1960]

Wrong.

The rich will just have to put off buying that new Lexus.

Chris, you know let me put it to you this way, I am a small business owner, and not only that I work daily with small and medium size business all fall outside that Barack Obama definition of tax cut. Let me explain in real terms what is going to happen. When the top rate rises to 39% and the cap gains rate rises. and the prices of fuel rises, and mandated health care coverage goes into place. You know know what is going to happen? First, in order to compensate, prices for goods and services will rise to compensate, Second, as an employer you look and see where you can save money and if that means laying off people , then thats what you do. If that means relocating to a more business friendly location then you do. It is not a matter of putting off buying a new Lexus. It is a matter of you and most Obama supporters believing that this tax cut you will recieve at the expense of others will somehow stimulate the economy. You think I'm kidding? Let me cite you an example, how far did the recent economic stimulis package go in keeping the economy from falling? In fact how many Middle Class and working poor kept their jobs as a result of that? The point is, when the economy is bad and you are running a deficit like the United States is and all of us are paying massive amounts of interest on that debt you don't initiate trillions of dollars in social spending to pile onto that debt and hope the economy will somehow get better.

 

[Gunny]

Oh my God--this claim by Obama is probably the biggest farce I have seen in my 55 years. Coming from Obama's campaign rhetoric that he is only going to tax 5% of the population making over 250K & give 95%--or the rest of us a tax cut!

Frankly, I cannot believe that anyone would believe this huge farce. Let alone 31% of Americans--according to this poll--that are voting for Obama simply because they think they're going to get a tax cut with Obama as POTUS. Maybe this 31% represent the 40% in this country that pay no income taxes anyway, & they are looking for their welfare checks?

Now in the final days--we see that this 250K figure has come down to 150K according to Joe Biden, & then to 120K according to Democrat govenor Bill Richardson. This bar is going to come down much lower than this.

Obama states that we are "selfish" if we don't want to give the government more of our hard earned dollars. Yet, Americans are the most generous people on this earth. We still donate more money to people in need in this country & all over the world.

LET'S FACE IT FOLKS! There is no possible--accountable way that 5% of the population or those making over 250K per year, can give us all a tax break, pay for Obama's additional 1 TRILLION in new spending proposals, & give us all national health care insurance at the same time. It simply cannot be done. The only other place Obama can go for all this new spending & tax cuts is the middle class of this country. He will then re-distribute it to people who pay no income taxes.

If you're one of middle class tax payers in this country, voting for Obama simply because you believe you're going to get a tax cut, you are going to be extremely disappointed.

Because they're stupid.

 

[The Paperboy]

Wrong.

The rich will just have to put off buying that new Lexus.

And who do you think builds that Lexus?

And who gets the commission on the sale of that Lexus?

And who insures that Lexus?

And supplies the parts for the Lexus.

Now look, I don't drive a Lexus. I could if I wanted to but I choose to drive a 10 year old 4 Runner. But that's my choice. The point is that class warfare is not good for America. Redistribution of wealth is not good for America. Higher taxes are not good for America.

America wins when everyone wins. Increased taxes make everyone lose.

 

[Chris]

And who do you think builds that Lexus?

And who gets the commission on the sale of that Lexus?

And who insures that Lexus?

And supplies the parts for the Lexus.

Now look, I don't drive a Lexus. I could if I wanted to but I choose to drive a 10 year old 4 Runner. But that's my choice. The point is that class warfare is not good for America. Redistribution of wealth is not good for America. Higher taxes are not good for America.

America wins when everyone wins. Increased taxes make everyone lose.

This is insane.

We can't keep borrowing money from China to give to Saudi Arabia. We have to start paying our bills or we will go bankrupt. How do we pay our bills? By balancing the budget. How do we balance the budget? By cutting spending and raising taxes.

 

[The Paperboy]

This is insane.

We can't keep borrowing money from China to give to Saudi Arabia. We have to start paying our bills or we will go bankrupt. How do we pay our bills? By balancing the budget. How do we balance the budget? By cutting spending and raising taxes.

Absolutely agreed. And the Paperboy Economic Strategy is:

1. Do not raise taxes.
2. Cut the corporate tax to same rate as Ireland
3. Conclude trade agreements with allies such as Columbia
4. Have an all of the above energy policy.
5. Make "Energy Independence" the "Man on the Moon " challenge for the next decade.

 

[Care4all]

If raising taxes is bad now why would it be OK when the economy is "good"?

Because reducing our deficit, is a GOOD THING and reducing our National Debt is a GOOD THING and will actually make our economy GROW with the positive consumer confidence coming out of it.

You can try to spin it any way you want but Obama is proposing a new welfare system. Pure and simple.

sigh...there is no NEW welfare program, the EIC is already in place, he is only giving a cost of living raise to it...sheesh, it is NOT NEW.

And If Obama isn't going to increases taxes for awhile how will he "cut taxes'?

the tax increase on the top two brackets will probably be held off....they won't get a tax hike....the rest will get their cuts. How is that hard to understand?

That is true.

So basically you advocate that I help pay them more. Fair enough. I disagree. I started with nothing, worked three minimum wage jobs to support a wife and two children. I did it on my own and that is also a GOOD thing. No government hand out needed or wanted.

Tell that to the Businesses that pay these people crap for their own business's own personal profit and make us give his workers our taxes...

and tell that to all the businesses that hire illegals for their cheap labor while making us pay for their healthcare and their children's schooling.

I do not agree with redistribution of income. You apparently do. But my guess is that your taxes are not about to be raised.

Well, you live in the wrong country if this is how you feel....because all taxes are a redistribution of wealth...they take my tax money and give it to someone or something else...whether it is Halliburton that gets rich off of it or the Military industrial complex that gets rich off of it, or the Banks and Financial institutions that gets rich off of it or the oil companies that get rich off of it...they are talking my money and giving it to someone else.

so far over $2 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS BEEN DUMPED ON TO WALL STREET, not just the $700 billion dollar bail out money but $2 trillion so far...in the past year....THAT my dear is redistribution of wealth...

Also keep in mind everyone will have a tax increase when Obama allows the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010

.

the 2010 expiration of taxes will only happen to the top two brackets, as obama has stated...they will be let to expire...the other tax rate brackets are being modified and extended as per the obama tax plan.

Care

 

[jschuck12001]

Chris, you know let me put it to you this way, I am a small business owner, and not only that I work daily with small and medium size business all fall outside that Barack Obama definition of tax cut. Let me explain in real terms what is going to happen. When the top rate rises to 39% and the cap gains rate rises. and the prices of fuel rises, and mandated health care coverage goes into place. You know know what is going to happen? First, in order to compensate, prices for goods and services will rise to compensate, Second, as an employer you look and see where you can save money and if that means laying off people , then thats what you do. If that means relocating to a more business friendly location then you do. It is not a matter of putting off buying a new Lexus. It is a matter of you and most Obama supporters believing that this tax cut you will recieve at the expense of others will somehow stimulate the economy. You think I'm kidding? Let me cite you an example, how far did the recent economic stimulis package go in keeping the economy from falling? In fact how many Middle Class and working poor kept their jobs as a result of that? The point is, when the economy is bad and you are running a deficit like the United States is and all of us are paying massive amounts of interest on that debt you don't initiate trillions of dollars in social spending to pile onto that debt and hope the economy will somehow get better.

So your a small business owner that has a consistent net of over $250k?

It’s untrue that Obama is proposing a 28% capital gains tax rate. He said in an interview on CNBC that he favors raising the top rate on capital gains from its present 15% to 20% or more, but no higher than 28 percent. And as for a 28% rate, Obama added, “my guess would be it would be significantly lower than that.” Furthermore, he has said only couples making $250,000 or more (or singles making more than $200,000 according to his policy advisers) would pay the higher capital gains rate. That means the large majority of persons who pay capital gains taxes would see no increase at all.

 

[jschuck12001]

Absolutely agreed. And the Paperboy Economic Strategy is:

1. Do not raise taxes.
2. Cut the corporate tax to same rate as Ireland
3. Conclude trade agreements with allies such as Columbia
4. Have an all of the above energy policy.
5. Make "Energy Independence" the "Man on the Moon " challenge for the next decade.

How in the hell can this country afford to cut the tax rate to the same as Ireland when we are in as much debt as we are now.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm astounded at all those who are obsessing over tax plans. There are so many other factors at play in our economy that a shift in any of them could easily strip any benefits you might get from one tax plan or the other.
Are we just unable to look at the big economic picture ?

 

[The Paperboy]

How in the hell can this country afford to cut the tax rate to the same as Ireland when we are in as much debt as we are now.

Because tax revenues will go up. Of course, Obama doesn't think this is "fair".