Polish Troops Find More WMD Shells

[Annie]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1551580,00.html

Mustard, sarin warheads found
02/07/2004 08:37 - (SA)

Washington - Polish troops recently discovered more than a dozen warheads containing mustard or sarin gas in Iraq, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a radio interview.

Rumsfeld said Polish Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told him about the find when they met earlier this week at a Nato summit in Istanbul.

"He pointed out that his troops in Iraq had recently come across - I've forgotten the number, but something like 16 or 17 - warheads that contained sarin and mustard gas," Rumsfeld told Newradio 600 KOGO of San Diego, California in an interview on Wednesday.

"Now these are weapons that we always knew Saddam Hussein had that he had not declared, and they have tested them," he said.

The Pentagon released a transcript of the interview on Thursday.

The head of the US-led hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Charles Duelfer, had previously reported that 10 to 12 warheads containing sarin or mustard gas have been found.

A US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the number could have gone up since Duelfer's spoke about the chemical rounds June 24 in an interview with Fox television.

Rumsfeld added that he had not seen the weapons or the results of the tests, but noted that the Poles believed they "in fact were undeclared chemical weapons - sarin and mustard gas - quite lethal."

"And that is a discovery that just occurred within the last period of days," he said.

Rumsfeld also said there had been "a lot of intelligence speculation and rumours and chatter about the fact that Saddam Hussein may have placed some of his weapons of mass destruction in Syria prior to the start of the war.

"Until that can be validated and proved, you'll find people in the administration not talking about it" he said.

The question of what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction - or indeed whether it had any hidden stockpiles at the time of the war - remains intensely controversial.

Edited by Anthea Jonathan

More and more seems to be coming out lately:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8240

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=114037#post114037

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8089&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

[Captain_Steel]

Okay, now I don't want to hear anymore liberals asking, "where are the WMD's?". But they'll find something else to bitch about anyways.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Sir Evil


I think it's a strong possibility that they have been placed in Syria.
The latest find is a positive in proof but still, it wont be enough for the leftists to say anything good. [/B]

IF they bother to find them in Syria, the left would just say they were planted by the US. No winning with this. It's the Big Lie!

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
YEP! Or of course that they belonged to Syria all along. As far as I am concerned any shred of evidence should be enough after the many years of defiance. I wonder if some people understand the seriousness of Sarin and Mustard gas though, it's a significant find.

MUSTARD GAS

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/m1/mustardg.asp

chemical compound used as a poison gas in World War I. The burning sensation it causes on contact with the skin is similar to that caused by oil from black mustard seeds. The compound is not a gas but a colorless, oily liquid with a somewhat sweet, agreeable odor; it boils at 217‹C. A powerful vesicant, mustard gas causes severe blistering even in small quantities. Highly irritating to the eyes, it quickly causes conjunctivitis and blindness. If inhaled, it attacks the respiratory tract and lungs, causing pulmonary edema. Some effects of exposure to mustard gas are delayed up to 12 hr; death may result several days after exposure. Mustard gas was introduced by the Germans in warfare against the British at Ypres, Belgium, in July, 1917, and took a heavy toll of casualties. It is dispersed as an aerosol by a bursting shell. Chemically, mustard gas is a thioether, 2,2Œ-dichlorodiethyl sulfide, (ClCH 2 CH 2 ) 2 S. It can be prepared by reacting ethylene with sulfur monochloride, S 2 Cl 2 , or by other methods. Its vesicant property is readily destroyed either by oxidation or by chlorination (e.g., with bleaching powder).

SARIN

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7050/

Sarin, a colorless and odorless gas, has a lethal dose of 0.5 milligram for an adult. It is 26 times more deadly than cyanide gas and is 20 times more lethal than potassium cyanide. Just 0.01 milligram per kilogram of body weight a pinprick sized droplet will kill a human. The vapor is slightly heavier than air, so it hovers close to the ground. Under wet and humid weather conditions sarin degrades swiftly, but as the temperature rises up to a certain point, sarinfs lethal duration increases, despite the humidity.

Mankind has always searched for more and more powerful weapons, whether it be a bigger rock to throw a better quality bow and arrow or musket or a more powerful bomb. Obviously this century it has been explosives of one kind or another. More specifically the tendancy has been for more powerful missiles or aerial bombs this race reached its height when the nuclear bomb was invented the power of these bombs were so supremly powerful that the target would be of no use to anyone after the explosion due to the damage and contamination. So as a result the search for weapons that would kill the enemy but leave the surrounding area undamaged and any contamination short lived. Chemical and Biological weapons were the answer to these problems. Chemical weapons have been around in less sophisticated forms for decades, they were used quite extensively in the first world war but took the form of simple gasses such as chlorine and mustard gas. In this day and age the current crop of chemical weapons are far more dangerous and well researched.

Among the most dangerous chemical weapons are the so called nerve gasses or nerve agents, nerve agents have entirely dominated chemical warfare since the Second World War. Nerve agents acquired their name because they affect the transmission of nerve impulses in the nervous system. All nerve agents belong chemically to the group of organo-phosphorus compounds. They are stable and easily dispersed, highly toxic and have rapid effects both when absorbed through the skin and via respiration. Nerve agents can be manufactured by means of fairly simple chemical techniques. The raw materials are inexpensive and generally readily available. This makes them even more dangerous as they can be made by any irresponsible mind with a decent laboratory.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

No matter how much WMD is found scattered around the countryside, it will never be enough for the LLL.

Until they see Dan Rather walk into a huge building that looks like Sam's Club that has shelves lined with ricin, anthrax, vx, etc. they will keep crying Where's the WMD ? Where's the WMD?

"...Ali to aisle 5 with a mop for a botulism spill please....."

 

[NATO AIR]

i'm sure syria has them, and with north korea and pakistan helping syria's missile program, who knows which country they'll be fired into and explode in one day?

 

[Annie]

anyone with weapons knowledge? I found this and thought it interesting, but don't know much about them:

http://overpressure.com/

Once again, UNMOVIC proved to be wrong

The AP story on the mortars found by the Poles has more interesting data:


Dukaczewski refused to give any further details about the terrorists or the sellers of the munitions, saying only that his troops thwarted terrorists by purchasing the 17 rockets for a Soviet-era launcher and two mortar rounds containing the nerve agent for an undisclosed sum June 23.


It doesn't say, but no doubt those are 122mm rocket warheads. A Soviet-era launcher, and one that we know was a delivery system for sarin/cyclo-sarin. Important tidbit, though, is the existence of the two mortar rounds with cyclo-sarin. Back in the hub-bub about the first reported sarin shell, I posted that UNMOVIC had discounted the Danish find of chemical mortar rounds in their latest report:


This is consistent with the Commission’s study on Iraq’s non-conventional munitions, as Iraq’s chemical warfare arsenal was not known to include such 120-mm mortars. Iraq is known to have filled mortar shells only with riot control agents and conventional explosives. A summary of what was previously known to the Commission and UNMOVIC findings during inspections with respect to Iraq’s chemical and biological munitions is set out in appendix I to the present report.


As I also noted in that post, US intelligence had reports of chemical agents in mortars as far back as 1986.

posted by blaster at 05:59 PM

 

[menewa]

this hardly counts as a destructive batch of weapons. these are old and rusty vats with traces of toxins inside. all stuff made in the 80s, with US support.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by menewa
this hardly counts as a destructive batch of weapons. these are old and rusty vats with traces of toxins inside. all stuff made in the 80s, with US support.

Menewa your back to being more than annoying, please. The fact that you have no links is annoying, but more than annoying is that the US support of Iraq has been dealt with and proven to be insignificant at best. Now I'm not going back and find the links, there are others that are actually thinking today. Stop being more than annoying. We've been down this road before.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Menewa your back to being more than annoying, please. The fact that you have no links is annoying, but more than annoying is that the US support of Iraq has been dealt with and proven to be insignificant at best. Now I'm not going back and find the links, there are others that are actually thinking today.

Links are not needed for above claims. It is common knowledge.

Old empty shells do not count as WMD. You guys and gals say over and over again "WMDs found." When it just ain't so.

Also, US support of Iraq in 1980s is not insignificant and it has never been proven otherwise.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
How the hell do you know old shells left over from the 80's? provide a credible link or shut up!

The link has already been posted. It's the article listed in the first post of the other thread pertaining to Polich troops finding missile shells tainted with traces of nerve agents.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by menewa
Links are not needed for above claims. It is common knowledge.

Old empty shells do not count as WMD. You guys and gals say over and over again "WMDs found." When it just ain't so.

No matter how much WMD is found scattered around the countryside, it will never be enough for the LLL.

Until they see Dan Rather walk into a huge building that looks like Sam's Club that has shelves lined with ricin, anthrax, vx, etc. they will keep crying Where's the WMD ? Where's the WMD?

"...Ali to aisle 5 with a mop for a botulism spill please....."

I rest my case

 

[insein]

Originally posted by menewa
this hardly counts as a destructive batch of weapons. these are old and rusty vats with traces of toxins inside. all stuff made in the 80s, with US support.

Ok then we'll just drop .01 mg of that undestructive Sarin into your Cereal. Or perhaps your wife and kids would like some of that? There's enough Sarin within those warheads to kill thousands if applied right. You don't find that significant?

 

[rjw8652]

The US did have links with Iraq in the 80s - precisely for the reason of supporting Iraq against the even worse threat of fundamentalist Iran. How convenient these moronic liberals forget the nthreat that Iran was - and still is.

I worked in Baghdad for five years in the 80s during the time of the Iran-Iraq war. Sorry to rain on the liberal's parade, but the country with by far the biggest links to Iraq during this time - and since - was FRANCE! I worked for a French firm at the time and this Franco-Iraqi collaboration was looked on with pride among my French co-workers. If nothing else, it ensured we had the protection and favouritism that the Saddam regime accorded to people who gave him what he wanted. In this case it was masses of weapons - the French (and also the Russians) were by many miles the biggest weapons suppliers to Iraq.

John

 

[insein]

Originally posted by rjw8652
The US did have links with Iraq in the 80s - precisely for the reason of supporting Iraq against the even worse threat of fundamentalist Iran. How convenient these moronic liberals forget the nthreat that Iran was - and still is.

I worked in Baghdad for five years in the 80s during the time of the Iran-Iraq war. Sorry to rain on the liberal's parade, but the country with by far the biggest links to Iraq during this time - and since - was FRANCE! I worked for a French firm at the time and this Franco-Iraqi collaboration was looked on with pride among my French co-workers. If nothing else, it ensured we had the protection and favouritism that the Saddam regime accorded to people who gave him what he wanted. In this case it was masses of weapons - the French (and also the Russians) were by many miles the biggest weapons suppliers to Iraq.

John

Welcome John.

Ive heard of the French Connection being stronger than ours in the 80's as well. Liberals simply go through life with the eyes and ears covered. Their mouths sure aint covered though.

 

[Annie]

Welcome John, great first post!

This morning on Fox's Cashin' In they were discussing the French and all their ties to WMD. I couldn't believe Bob Beckel of all people saying Kerry better stop suggesting we bridge problems with the French, pronto! He said that France should be on the enemies lists and all were in agreement that huge punitive tarriffs should be placed against their imports, recognizing that would cause reciprocity. These are Wall Street types, with the exception of Beckel who is a dem spinner. When both types are saying this, watch out, it's about to hit the fan!

 

[Annie]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-07/03/content_1568588.htm

More found. Testing positive again.

 

[rjw8652]

Thanks Kathianne,

There are plenty of stories I can tell about Iraq that would rip to shreds any liberal's arguments. As Dubya says "bring 'em on".

I had the dubious distinction of visiting Abu Ghraib on quite a few occaisions - one of my friends was jailed for 5 years in a show trial for refusing to provide arms to Iraqi officials through our French connection. I had to visit the guy as prisoners in Iraqi jails did not get fed - he would have starved otherwise (where were the bleeding-heart liberals then complaining about human rights?). The prison was so bad that it defied description - yet to listen to these whining liberals, you would think that it was a picnic site in the Saddam era.

Anyway, I'm glad to join the fray. Thanks for letting a Brit in on your site!

John

 

[Annie]

Welcome again John, it'll be good to hear from a Euro who thinks we're doing the right thing.

 

[rjw8652]

Kathianne, please please PLEASE don't call me a Euro! A Euro is a unit of currency that we Brits have fought hard against adopting for a number of years!

Call me a jerk, an asshole, a Brit - in fact, almost anything except a Euro (and a liberal).


John