Polish President's Plane Crashes In Poland

Annie

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Hmmm:

Official: no survivors in Kaczynski plane crash - Yahoo! News

Polish president's plane crashes in Russia; 87 die

22 mins ago

MOSCOW – Officials say a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his wife has crashed in western Russia and that at least 87 people have been killed.
The Polish Foreign Ministry confirmed that the president and his wife were aboard the plane that crashed Saturday near the city of Smolensk.
A spokeswoman for Russia's Emergencies Ministry, Irina Andrianova, said 87 people were killed but she had no details on their identity.

Yesterday in Russian paper:

What the Russian papers say | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

...Putin tries to untangle "Katyn knot" in Russian-Polish relations
On Wednesday, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin tried to unravel the "Katyn knot" which has been complicating relations between Moscow and Warsaw for the past 70 years and which serves as a pretext for boisterous accusation.

Putin invited his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk, to Katyn, a village in the Smolensk Region, where he became the first Russian leader to visit a memorial cemetery where an estimated 4,000 Polish officers are buried. Somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 Polish prisoners of war were executed in the Soviet Union in 1940.

It was not until April 1990 that the Kremlin, in the person of Mikhail Gorbachev, admitted to perpetrating the Katyn massacre. In 1993, Russian President Boris Yeltsin visited the Powazki Cemetery monument to Katyn victims in Warsaw and uttered the famous phrase: "Forgive us!"

However, most of the archived documents remain classified, and the official culprit list is limited to Soviet secret service chiefs Lavrenty Beria, Vsevolod Merkulov and his henchmen. The European Court of Human Rights continues to receive lawsuits against Russia from Katyn-victim relatives.

Warsaw believes that, apart from normalizing relations, Moscow wants to attain other political goals. Unlike Prime Minister Tusk, no one invited Polish President Lech Kaczynski to Katyn, although he had publicly stated his desire to go.

Some Polish analysts believe that Moscow is trying to drive a wedge between the Polish president and the prime minister by openly supporting the liberal Tusk, rather than the conservative Kaczynski who has long irritated Moscow, almost to the same extent as Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili or former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko.
Bilateral relations hit an all-time low in 2006-2007 under Kaczynski's identical twin brother Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the then prime minister of Poland.

After Tusk became prime minister, he lifted the Polish veto on initial talks to conclude a new Russia-EU Partnership and Cooperation Agreement (PCA), while Moscow agreed to resume Polish meat imports.

However, a bilateral thaw did not prevent Lech Kaczynski from visiting Tbilisi in August 2008 and supporting Saakashvili at a meeting during the Russian-Georgian conflict over the break-away province of South Ossetia.

Lech Kaczynski will vie against Bronislaw Komorowski, a Polish politician and member of the Civic Platform party together with Tusk, during the next Polish presidential election, scheduled to be held in the fall of 2010.

Russia avoids any contact with Kaczynski, including those initiated by him. Two months ago, President Dmitry Medvedev turned down an invitation to attend celebrations marking the 65th anniversary of liberating the Auschwitz concentration camp in Nazi-occupied Poland even though a new Russian pavilion had opened there.

At their concluding news conference, Putin and Tusk agreed that the Russian goodwill gesture signified a turning point in bilateral relations. It appears, however, that the issue has not been removed from the political agenda.

Tusk cautioned that it should not be expected that everyone will make a similar assessment of the Katyn meeting. Putin set forth the Russian stance implying that humanitarian issues are the only factor hindering mutual understanding on the Katyn issue.

"We don't want to place the relatives of the deceased in an ambiguous situation," Putin said, hinting that Moscow's stance on the issue remained firm.
Gazeta.ru

...

Remember the Russian journalists that kept turning up dead for awhile?
 

strollingbones

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o annie...surely you dont think putin is evil enough to crash an entire plane to kill 1 person...surely not?

but yes i do remember when the reporters died of gunshots...or poison...i guess after the last man went public when he was poisoned with raditation (?)...putin understands the concept of total power and how to maintain it.

but lets not jump the gun just yet.....
 

JW Frogen

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When are we going to jump the gun George, please can we jump the gun George?
 

JW Frogen

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Still, if Putin is involved I will not blink an eye.

I think the US should send him a message, perhaps the leather bound edition of the poetry of Dick Cheney.
 
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Conspiracist

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I wouldn't be shocked at all if this guy Putin is involved. His hard edge reminds me of the old timey Russian "head game" politics.
 

Ame®icano

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Polish President's Plane Crashes In Poland

In Smolensk, Russia.

He was going to visit place and commemorate place where Russians killed 1000 Polish people 70 years ago.
 

editec

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Hmmmm....

Seems curiously fortuitous for the Russians, doesn't it?
 
OP
Annie

Annie

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o annie...surely you dont think putin is evil enough to crash an entire plane to kill 1 person...surely not?

but yes i do remember when the reporters died of gunshots...or poison...i guess after the last man went public when he was poisoned with raditation (?)...putin understands the concept of total power and how to maintain it.

but lets not jump the gun just yet.....

I wouldn't jump the gun. I feel much better, Putin is heading the inquiry. All will be fine.
 

Polk

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I wouldn't put it past the Russians, but I think it's unlikely. There just isn't much to be gained from it.
 

Modbert

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So wait. According to some comments here, Putin is basically a evil mastermind who is going to be stupid enough to kill off the Polish President by having the guy's plane crash in Russia itself?

I know the guy is a perfect fit for a Bond villain, but he's not stupid.
 

boedicca

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Regardless of whether or not Russia was involved with the crash, they will certainly use this tragedy to manipulate Poland. The U.S. (quite shamefully) left them vulnerable to Russia by abandoning the missile defense program. Big Uncle Putin will fill the breach.
 

Modbert

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What's important to note is a lot of the top politicians in Poland are dead as well, not just the President.

A post on Reddit:

Polish president's plane crashes in Russia : worldnews

The President and the First Lady, President of Poland's Central Bank, Vice-Marshal of the Sejm (who was also a candidate in the future presidential elections), many members of the Parliament, President of the Institute of National Remembrance, and many high-ranking officials.
UPDATE: The Russian agencies said that 132 died, along them all the officials on the plane, some news reporters, and their guests.

UPDATE2: Reuters just said that "around 130 people" died, but there were 132 people on the plane. The Prime Minister called the Council of Ministers. The Marshall of the Sejm is now the acting president.

UPDATE3: Everyone (130 people) died. The President, the First Lady, the Vice-Marshall of the Sejm (whose birthday was yesterday), the Vice-Marshall of the Senate, one former president, the Polish Ombudsman, the head of the National Security Bureau, the presidential ministers, head of national bank, President of the Institute of National Remembrance, many members of the Parliament, mainly from the opposition party (Lech Kaczyński was elected from it), many high-ranking church officials... This is really a tragedy.

UPDATE4: EVERY head of the Polish Armed Forces died in the crash.

UPDATE5: Like HappyCamper2233 said, reporters claim 3 survivors, also it's been said now that 88 people were on board. Sorry for the information chaos, but it's crazy right now both in Poland and in Russia. Everyone is reporting different things, on one station they said no-one is alive, on another they say three people are alive, that's also why I'm not giving any sources, it's just too crazy right now.

UPDATE6: Photos from the site

UPDATE7: The flags on the Presidential Palace are lowered, there wasn't any official info yet, but it's clear to say that after such a loss, Poland is in a public mourning right now. Every public event has been delayed to an unspecified time.

UPDATE8: There were supposed to be presidential elections in October, but the Marshall has to call new elections in 74 days (in 14 days he has to call them, and they have to take place in 60 days). The Marshall (Bronisław Komorowski) was the main candidate along with Lech Kaczyński.

UPDATE9: Video from the site. 88 people were on board with fourteen members of the Parliament. While watching television, many people are crying - government members, opposition, even reporters. Here's the irony - the consensus is that this is the worst tragedy that happened to Poland since the Katyn massacre.

UPDATE10: The latest update from Smolensk says of 96 killed. I'm trying to comprehend what should happen now. Bronisław Komorowski is the acting president. The killed members of the parliament should be replaced as soon as possible, so that Komorowski can announce the new presidential elections. Apart from that, he has to announce who'll be the new president of the National Bank and the new heads of the Polish Armed Forces. The parliament has to choose the new head of the Institute of National Remembrance and the new Ombudsman.

UPDATE11: Komorowski is speaking in the Parliament now, he announced a one week public mourning. He didn't announce anything else, just confirmed that in regards to the constitution, he's the acting president now.
 

Si modo

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Regardless of whether or not Russia was involved with the crash, they will certainly use this tragedy to manipulate Poland. The U.S. (quite shamefully) left them vulnerable to Russia by abandoning the missile defense program. Big Uncle Putin will fill the breach.
The purpose of the MDS was not a defense of Poland or Europe from Russia. However, Obama certainly DID screw Poland because part of the deal was a quid pro quo: Poland was to allow land for our radar and our mid-flight interceptors and we would give Poland missiles for their defense.

So, yes. Obama screwed Poland.
 
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Modbert

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The purpose of the MDS was not a defense of Poland or Europe from Russia. However, Obama certainly DID screw Poland because part of the deal was a quid pro quo: Poland was to allow land for our radar and our mid-flight interceptors and we sould give Poland missiles for their defense.

So, yes. Obama screwed Poland.

You two ladies just can't resist using the dead to score some cheap quick political points huh?

This has nothing to do with the MDS. Talk about obsessed with hating Obama. :thup:
 

uscitizen

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A tragedy. I guess a funeral attendence by Obama and or Clinton is coming up.
 

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