docmauser1
Gold Member
- Oct 8, 2010
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So, the surrounding arab states have no borders, of course.Israel has border police but no borders.
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So, the surrounding arab states have no borders, of course.Israel has border police but no borders.
Title Two – Public Rights and LibertiesPalestine's constitution?...These are all violations of Palestine's constitution...
Take it to the Old Ladies Debating Society (a.k.a. the UN General Assembly) whenever you're ready....and some violate international law.
Ahhh! That's why the PLO was established full three years before 1967! Mucho funny.If anything, the above is an attempt to muddy the waters. By suspending security co-operation, the PA are clarifying beyond any possible doubt that Palestine is in fact under belligerent occupation, and has been since 1967. ...
[yawn] Palistanians are chewing gum stuck to a jewish shoe, it's their occupation©.As the Oslo accords are effectively dead and buried, the PA has probably got tired of being the Zionist's Kapos and Ordnungsdiensten.
What part of the UN Charter would that be?That's good. The security coordination violates domestic and international law.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
The Palestinians regularly protest against the PA for working for Israel.
So if it is part of the UN charter then how can it be against international law. Do spell out this so called international law and when it was introduced ?
The PA Security Services spy on people without court issued warrants. They arrest people without court issued warrants. They hold people indefinitely without charge, trial, or legal council. They torture people and several people have been tortured to death.That's good. The security coordination violates domestic and international law.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
The Palestinians regularly protest against the PA for working for Israel.
Which law would that be?
These are all violations of Palestine's constitution and some violate international law.
The security coordination does not enforce the law, it violates it.P F Tinmore, et al,
I don't think that the Security Cooperation (under Oslo Accords) represents a violation of international law. Instead, the move means something else entirely, a new strategy.
The leadership of the Palestine Liberation Organisation has voted to suspend all security co-operation with Israel said:The leadership of the Palestine Liberation Organization has voted to suspend all security co-operation with Israel, insisting that Israel – as occupying power – should assume all responsibilities for the Palestinian territories under international law.
SOURCE: The Guardian --- by Peter Beaumont in Jerusalem, Thursday 5 March 2015
The Palestinian Authority (PA) know that there is a distinction between the legality of conduct during occupation --- versus --- the legality of the occupation [(jus ad bellum v. jus in bello)(the criteria to determine whether entering into occupation is permissible --- versus --- the legal criteria in waging war). It would also set the conditions under which the internationally the criteria is met for the "occupation." Or even more simply it makes the distinction between the legality of the “extended occupation” --- 'v' --- the legality in the "use of force." AND determine the extent to which an "occupation" is maintained.
(COMMENT)That's good. The security coordination violates domestic and international law.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
The Palestinians regularly protest against the PA for working for Israel.
Which law would that be?
I think this is a move to demonstrate, for future legal use, that the PA can not be held accountable for any law and order issues in the territories occupied since 1967. This has to do with the legal definition of an "occupation" versus the common understanding by the layman. "Occupation law – in its early stages – was not aimed primarily at ensuring comprehensive protection for the individuals living under occupation; it concentrated on maintaining the sovereign rights of the ousted government until the conditions for its return were agreed upon by the belligerents." (See: ICRC: Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory) And this is directed related to the understanding of the conditions which legally describe an "Occupation:" the effective control of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces. (See: ICRC: Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907) which states that “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.” And as such, an occupation is a factual situation and not subjective; to identify legal issues in the factual situation --- the question must first ask for the criteria under which the conditions for an "occupation" exists.
ICRC: Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory said:It was argued that requiring the foreign forces to concretely exercise authority (for instance, by establishing a provisional civil administration) would open the door to bad-faith interpretation of this criterion. Indeed, it would be enough for the occupier to refuse to assume its duties under the law in order to be seen as not actually exerting authority over the territory it had just invaded. Ultimately, such an approach could encourage the foreign forces to refrain from maintaining law and order or meeting the basic needs of the local population in order to not be seen as the occupying power. This would leave the local population without any protection since its own government would be incapable of governing the area and the foreign troops unwilling to do so.
(See: ICRC: Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory)
And this is the move to spread confusion on any task performed by the "occupation power" (in this case thought to be the Israelis), even if not a core task of duties under International Humanitarian Law, contribute to the running of the occupation, since it would – if nothing else – free the “uncontested” occupying power (the Israelis) from doing secondary tasks and allow them to focus on the main ones, such as enforcing law and order. Consequently, the actions of “cooperating” PA would appear to be in support of the occupying power and would make the task of determining the legal status and responsibilities of the PA particularly difficult, at least from the legal review perspective.
This is another case of the Arab Palestinian abdicating the opportunity to demonstrate abilities of governance and leadership --- and attempting to shift governance over to the Occupation Power (the Israelis) for the purpose of relieving themselves of any further meaning responsibilities. The Article 43 of the Hague Convention, as supplemented by Article 64 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, provides the basic initial construct requiring the Israelis to restore, and then maintain, law and order over the territory. The implementation of operations that focus on law and order measures would require a significant degree of control over the area or situation under scrutiny. The variations in control in the occupied territory, as exemplified by the Oslo agreements between the PA and Israel, would inevitably require the occupying power to reconsider its responses to threats posed by insurgent groups (Jihadist and Fedayeen).
Needless to say, this latest move by the PA forfeiting the responsibility for security cooperation is an attempt to muddy the waters. It creates a chicken and egg dilemma at to which comes first:
And what impact does it have on the scope and nature of the occupation when the law enforcement and security apparatus of the occupied territory refuse to participate in law enforcement functions?
- Does "effective control" need to be establish first, before "law and order" functions are assumed?
- Does the "implementation" of "law and order" responsibilities demonstrate "effective control?"
Most Respectfully,
R
Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
This is another case of the Arab Palestinian abdicating the opportunity to demonstrate abilities of governance and leadership --- and attempting to shift governance over to the Occupation Power (the Israelis) for the purpose of relieving themselves of any further meaning responsibilities.
If anything, the above is an attempt to muddy the waters. By suspending security co-operation, the PA are clarifying beyond any possible doubt that Palestine is in fact under belligerent occupation, and has been since 1967. It is the responsibility of the occupying power to provide security under the various conventions you've cited several times and this action by the PA is long overdue. As the Oslo accords are effectively dead and buried, the PA has probably got tired of being the Zionist's Kapos and Ordnungsdiensten.
Title Two – Public Rights and LibertiesPalestine's constitution?...These are all violations of Palestine's constitution...
Take it to the Old Ladies Debating Society (a.k.a. the UN General Assembly) whenever you're ready....and some violate international law.
Article 9
Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without distinction based upon race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability.
Article 10
Article 11
- Basic human rights and liberties shall be protected and respected.
- The Palestinian National Authority shall work without delay to become a party to regional and international declarations and covenants that protect human rights.
Article 12
- Personal freedom is a natural right, shall be guaranteed and may not be violated.
- It is unlawful to arrest, search, imprison, restrict the freedom, or prevent the movement of any person, except by judicial order in accordance with the provisions of the law. The law shall specify the period of prearrest detention. Imprisonment or detention shall only be permitted in places that are subject to laws related to the organization of prisons.
Every arrested or detained person shall be informed of the reason for their arrest or detention. They shall be promptly informed, in a language they understand, of the nature of the charges brought against them. They shall have the right to contact a lawyer and to be tried before a court without delay.
Article 13
Article 14
- No person shall be subject to any duress or torture. Indictees and all persons deprived of their freedom shall receive proper treatment.
- All statements or confessions obtained through violation of the provisions contained in paragraph 1 of this article shall be considered null and void.
An accused person is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law that guarantees the accused the right to a defense. Any person accused in a criminal case shall be represented by a lawyer.
Article 15
Punishment shall be personal. Collective punishment is prohibited. Crime and punishment shall only be determined by the law. Punishment shall be imposed only by judicial order and shall apply only to actions committed after the entry into force of the law.
Article 16
It is unlawful to conduct any medical or scientific experiment on any person without prior legal consent. No person shall be subject to medical examination, treatment or surgery, except in accordance with the law.
Transplantation of human organs and new scientific developments shall be regulated by the law in order to serve legitimate humanitarian purposes.
Article 17
Homes shall be inviolable; they may not be subject to surveillance, broken into or searched, except in accordance with a valid judicial order and in accordance with the provisions of the law.
Any consequences resulting from violations of this article shall be considered invalid. Individuals who suffer from such violation shall be entitled to a fair remedy, guaranteed by the Palestinian National Authority.
Article 18
Freedom of belief, worship and the performance of religious functions are guaranteed, provided public order or public morals are not violated.
Article 19
Freedom of opinion may not be prejudiced. Every person shall have the right to express his opinion and to circulate it orally, in writing or in any form of expression or art, with due consideration to the provisions of the law.
Article 20
Freedom of residence and movement shall be guaranteed within the limits of the law.
2003 Amended Basic Law The Palestinian Basic Law
Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
To police their borders as laid down under International law. Or do you forget that Israel has International borders mutually agreed with its neighbours ?
This is another case of the Arab Palestinian abdicating the opportunity to demonstrate abilities of governance and leadership --- and attempting to shift governance over to the Occupation Power (the Israelis) for the purpose of relieving themselves of any further meaning responsibilities.
If anything, the above is an attempt to muddy the waters. By suspending security co-operation, the PA are clarifying beyond any possible doubt that Palestine is in fact under belligerent occupation, and has been since 1967. It is the responsibility of the occupying power to provide security under the various conventions you've cited several times and this action by the PA is long overdue. As the Oslo accords are effectively dead and buried, the PA has probably got tired of being the Zionist's Kapos and Ordnungsdiensten.
How so when Palestine as a nation did not exist before 1988, a full 21 years of not being under occupation. If the occupied power cant keep control of its criminal elements then you cant complain when Israel does their job for them and arrests all the rock throwers, terrorists, armed psychopaths and murderers and then imposes the full weight of the law on them. The Palestinians better be ready to see their family members sent to prison for a long time and made to work hard.
There are no borders between Israel and Palestine.Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
To police their borders as laid down under International law. Or do you forget that Israel has International borders mutually agreed with its neighbours ?
Of course, Tinny... my pleasure.Quote the passage.Israel's borders are whatever Israel says they are, within the framework of the 1922 LoN partition proposal map.Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
Do you mean the parcel of Ottoman provincial land formerly known loosely and informally as 'Palestine', which eventually and in large part came to form the basis for the modern State of Israel, and the handful of non-contiguous and lawless slivers of land presently best labeled as Residual or Rump-Palestine?This is another case of the Arab Palestinian abdicating the opportunity to demonstrate abilities of governance and leadership --- and attempting to shift governance over to the Occupation Power (the Israelis) for the purpose of relieving themselves of any further meaning responsibilities.
If anything, the above is an attempt to muddy the waters. By suspending security co-operation, the PA are clarifying beyond any possible doubt that Palestine is in fact under belligerent occupation, and has been since 1967. It is the responsibility of the occupying power to provide security under the various conventions you've cited several times and this action by the PA is long overdue. As the Oslo accords are effectively dead and buried, the PA has probably got tired of being the Zionist's Kapos and Ordnungsdiensten.
How so when Palestine as a nation did not exist before 1988, a full 21 years of not being under occupation. If the occupied power cant keep control of its criminal elements then you cant complain when Israel does their job for them and arrests all the rock throwers, terrorists, armed psychopaths and murderers and then imposes the full weight of the law on them. The Palestinians better be ready to see their family members sent to prison for a long time and made to work hard.
Palestine has been under belligerent occupation since 1918; the occupiers just changed in 1948.
True. Because Palestine does not exist. Never did. Never will....There are no borders between Israel and Palestine.
Title Two – Public Rights and LibertiesPalestine's constitution?...These are all violations of Palestine's constitution...
Take it to the Old Ladies Debating Society (a.k.a. the UN General Assembly) whenever you're ready....and some violate international law.
Article 9
Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without distinction based upon race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability.
Article 10
Article 11
- Basic human rights and liberties shall be protected and respected.
- The Palestinian National Authority shall work without delay to become a party to regional and international declarations and covenants that protect human rights.
Article 12
- Personal freedom is a natural right, shall be guaranteed and may not be violated.
- It is unlawful to arrest, search, imprison, restrict the freedom, or prevent the movement of any person, except by judicial order in accordance with the provisions of the law. The law shall specify the period of prearrest detention. Imprisonment or detention shall only be permitted in places that are subject to laws related to the organization of prisons.
Every arrested or detained person shall be informed of the reason for their arrest or detention. They shall be promptly informed, in a language they understand, of the nature of the charges brought against them. They shall have the right to contact a lawyer and to be tried before a court without delay.
Article 13
Article 14
- No person shall be subject to any duress or torture. Indictees and all persons deprived of their freedom shall receive proper treatment.
- All statements or confessions obtained through violation of the provisions contained in paragraph 1 of this article shall be considered null and void.
An accused person is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law that guarantees the accused the right to a defense. Any person accused in a criminal case shall be represented by a lawyer.
Article 15
Punishment shall be personal. Collective punishment is prohibited. Crime and punishment shall only be determined by the law. Punishment shall be imposed only by judicial order and shall apply only to actions committed after the entry into force of the law.
Article 16
It is unlawful to conduct any medical or scientific experiment on any person without prior legal consent. No person shall be subject to medical examination, treatment or surgery, except in accordance with the law.
Transplantation of human organs and new scientific developments shall be regulated by the law in order to serve legitimate humanitarian purposes.
Article 17
Homes shall be inviolable; they may not be subject to surveillance, broken into or searched, except in accordance with a valid judicial order and in accordance with the provisions of the law.
Any consequences resulting from violations of this article shall be considered invalid. Individuals who suffer from such violation shall be entitled to a fair remedy, guaranteed by the Palestinian National Authority.
Article 18
Freedom of belief, worship and the performance of religious functions are guaranteed, provided public order or public morals are not violated.
Article 19
Freedom of opinion may not be prejudiced. Every person shall have the right to express his opinion and to circulate it orally, in writing or in any form of expression or art, with due consideration to the provisions of the law.
Article 20
Freedom of residence and movement shall be guaranteed within the limits of the law.
2003 Amended Basic Law The Palestinian Basic Law
Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
To police their borders as laid down under International law. Or do you forget that Israel has International borders mutually agreed with its neighbours ?
Egypt and Jordan, maybe; Syria, Lebanon and Palestine, not so much.
This is another case of the Arab Palestinian abdicating the opportunity to demonstrate abilities of governance and leadership --- and attempting to shift governance over to the Occupation Power (the Israelis) for the purpose of relieving themselves of any further meaning responsibilities.
If anything, the above is an attempt to muddy the waters. By suspending security co-operation, the PA are clarifying beyond any possible doubt that Palestine is in fact under belligerent occupation, and has been since 1967. It is the responsibility of the occupying power to provide security under the various conventions you've cited several times and this action by the PA is long overdue. As the Oslo accords are effectively dead and buried, the PA has probably got tired of being the Zionist's Kapos and Ordnungsdiensten.
How so when Palestine as a nation did not exist before 1988, a full 21 years of not being under occupation. If the occupied power cant keep control of its criminal elements then you cant complain when Israel does their job for them and arrests all the rock throwers, terrorists, armed psychopaths and murderers and then imposes the full weight of the law on them. The Palestinians better be ready to see their family members sent to prison for a long time and made to work hard.
Palestine has been under belligerent occupation since 1918; the occupiers just changed in 1948.
There are no borders between Israel and Palestine.Israel has border police but no borders.Abbas is yet to make the final decision but it looks likely...
A shrewd political move by the PLO in the wake of Nut&yahoo in congress?
Pressure on Nut&yahoo in the upcoming elections?
Suicide for the PLO?
Strangulation of Hamas from within?
PLO leadership votes to suspend security cooperation with Israel World news The Guardian
Maybe because they plan on running over some more people?
Terror attack in Jerusalem Five officers Israeli hurt - Israel News Ynetnews
What is their job actually.
To police their borders as laid down under International law. Or do you forget that Israel has International borders mutually agreed with its neighbours ?