People getting fired

[pismoe]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

------------------------------------------------------- seems to me that PORTER was cool if his bosses said it was cool as they followed American / Western law of 'innocent till proven guilty' Task.

 

[Care4all]

Trump has "doubled down" on defending Porter; sending out a Tweet defending "due process" since he believes a woman's accusation can ruin lives! The man is so touched in the head; but no more so than the people who are still supporting him!

How dare the president defend due process. This is America. We reject due process.

you sure do reject it, so does Trump, and Flynn, and Trumpettes....with you shouting and yelling and blogging and posting endlessly..

LOCK HER UP

or with your statements of ''Clinton Crime Family.

where was her due process

please spare us liberals of your nonsense!

 

[pismoe]

personally i think that The TRUMP is going to turn this issue around on the lefties that don't understand or respect American / Western Law concepts. Just this morning he was tweeting about this subject so he has noticed the situation and might have something in the works Task .

 

[task0778]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

------------------------------------------------------- seems to me that PORTER was cool if his bosses said it was cool as they followed American / Western law of 'innocent till proven guilty' Task.

Politics dude. We don't wait until you're proven guilty if you belong to the other side. Can you imagine the shitstorm if Trump kept those 2 guys on his staff? What would happen if it was a couple of aides to Schumer or Pelosi or Cuomo? The political fallout would be enormous.

 

[Care4all]

He was forced to resign because he could not pass a background check....

The back ground check that every single employee in his type of position has had to pass since its inception.

Letting him get a bypass while many many others who could not get a security clearance were immediately dropped, is simply wrong...it is cronyism and unfair to those who have lead whistle clean lives and did pass the check, along with those others who failed and did not have cronyism on their side.

 

[Timmy]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

 

[miketx]

No I think you are doing what they all do and attempting to deflect.

as I feared, this is getting off topic.

so let me restate the question.

do you find it problematic that people lose their jobs for things they do away from the workplace on their own time?

Mozzila CEO Brendan Eich is a prime example, he made statements he was against gay marriage and was promptly lynched on the Internet and let go

Complete BS

Mozzila doesn't have the right to make their own hiring/firing calls?

Classic libspeak.

It's classic libspeak to ask if a corporation has the right to hire and fire on their own?

What's the word from Lapierre on this?

 

[task0778]

He was forced to resign because he could not pass a background check....

The back ground check that every single employee in his type of position has had to pass since its inception.

Letting him get a bypass while many many others who could not get a security clearance were immediately dropped, is simply wrong...it is cronyism and unfair to those who have lead whistle clean lives and did pass the check, along with those others who failed and did not have cronyism on their side.

True.

 

[task0778]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

Not really, there's a lot of people who thought then and still think now that due process for Hillary wasn't strictly followed and she should've been indicted.

 

[Timmy]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

Not really, there's a lot of people who thought then and still think now that due process for Hillary wasn't strictly followed and she should've been indicted.

How about Bowe Bergadal ? Guy was guilty of treason by so many before he even got back from the Mid East

By the way. Who’s bringing chargers against Punchy? No one . Innocent till guilty is a criminal thing. .

 

[OldLady]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

What does "lock her up" have to do with due process? You can't lock somebody up after a trial and verdict?

You guys are the ones screaming every time a white police officer shoots an unarmed black. You were the ones saying how Trump should be impeached before he even took oath of office. People in glass houses.......

 

[pismoe]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

I don't care if somebody smokes pot when they're not at work, or drink, or womanize, or gamble, or any of a hundred other vices. BUT (and there's a big but) it's different when they have grave responsibilities for human life and safety.
We can't have people subject to financial, legal, or other problems to hold top secret security clearances, where they are subject to blackmail or other pressures, and the only thing they have of value are our nations secrets.

------------------------------------------ Porter has only been ACCUSED as far as i know . No proof , no trial , just accusations as far as i am aware .

This from the people who chanted “lock her up” at every trump rally .

Suddenly they are all due process!? Lol! Fakes !!!

-------------------------------------- The millions yelling , saying , praying 'lock her' up are simply expressing FREE SPEECH and OPINION Timmy , Care4 and all other lefty 'ilk' . And thats exactly what Free Speech in the USA is for Ladies and Gents .

 

[pismoe]

Course you lefties made PORTER lose his bread and butter job but like i already said . I think that The TRUMP is already showcasing your lack of respect for 'due process' and Rule of LAW and Presumed Innocence to everyone in the USA and i am happy to see that you 'third world' type Guys and Girls .

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For what they do on their own time, things that are in no way job related. Does anyone have a problem with that?

please don't make this about politics, it applies to all parties.

If it's not about politics one of the moderators will close or move the discussion.

But to the topic: people lose their job every day in this country if they can't pass a drug test. They are not testing for intoxication on the job, they are looking into what you do on your own personal time. So I guess it's socially acceptable.

 

[miketx]

So who got fired for doing whatever on their own time that wasn't job related?

white house staffers from both parties,

Everybody in the WH has to receive a security clearance. It's not just some job like delivering pizzas. Show a little respect for the office of the president, even though the current occupant is nothing but a sleazy criminal woman-abuser himself.

Clinton is not in the WH.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

here is some back up info on my post number 220 EWings . --- The big list: Female teachers with students --- Millenial Teachers , many young woman sexually abusing young students as they collect taxpayer paid salaries EWings .

I think this is terrible. WTF couldn't' they be doing that when I was in school?

 

[OldLady]

Course you lefties made PORTER lose his bread and butter job but like i already said . I think that The TRUMP is already showcasing your lack of respect for 'due process' and Rule of LAW and Presumed Innocence to everyone in the USA and i am happy to see that you 'third world' type Guys and Girls .

"You lefties?" Kelly forced his resignation. He's no leftie. Trump may not like it that he's lost his friend, but everyone else (not lefties) realizes this is BAD OPTICS for the President. Porter (not a leftie) is the one who abused his two wives.
You're full of shit, Pismoe.

 

[miketx]

Course you lefties made PORTER lose his bread and butter job but like i already said . I think that The TRUMP is already showcasing your lack of respect for 'due process' and Rule of LAW and Presumed Innocence to everyone in the USA and i am happy to see that you 'third world' type Guys and Girls .

"You lefties?" Kelly forced his resignation. He's no leftie. Trump may not like it that he's lost his friend, but everyone else (not lefties) realizes this is BAD OPTICS for the President. Porter (not a leftie) is the one who abused his two wives.
You're full of shit, Pismoe.

You were there huh?

 

[task0778]

There are 2 sides to this story, the first being the need for due process cuz in this country you're not supposed to be pronounced guilty until proven so, even in the court of public opinion. And the other side is the issue of sexual harassment and misconduct, which has to be appropriately dealt with. Is it fair to fire a guy cuz a female says he did this or that, many years ago? In some jobs like on TV (Matt Lauer, etc.) and politics, image is everything; just the appearance or accusation on impropriety can cause harm and so one can see the problem if a guy is kept on despite being accused of misconduct. And yet such charges can be used to retaliate against somebody or for monetary gain (lawsuit) when the accused may not have done anything wrong.

What if the evidence is insufficient to result in charges filed or a lawsuit brought? The guy gets canned anyway? What if it's true but years have passed and nobody said nothing until now when there's a certain amount of leverage cuz the guy has something to lose? Tough call for a woman trying to make her way in the world, if you speak up and accuse somebody of sexual misconduct then you're risking your job and maybe worse. So - no easy answers here. Case by case basis then, is there a 3rd person that can corroborate anything? Guys like that I would think tend to do that sort of thing to more than one woman.

In the case of Rob Porter, it seems pretty clear he was abusive to his wives. The second wife reported similar behavior that the first had. Sadly, most allegations of domestic violence are dropped prior to adjudication, not because they didn't happen, but because the woman is either intimidated or sweet talked into not going forward. In Maine, there is a law that there MUST be an arrest when cops are called to a domestic. That doesn't mean it will go to trial though. Despite all they can do, the Victims Witness Advocates can't get the victims to testify. Even Protection Orders, once taken, are routinely violated and dropped by the victims.
It is their husband or significant other. They LOVE him. Most of the time he's a great guy, provides for the family, remembers birthdays, yada yada. It can take a long time for women to get it that despite his apologies and promises, it WILL happen again, and the longer it goes on, the worse it usually gets. That's when deaths occur.
This stuff is serious. It is frustratingly difficult to stop, and one of the big reasons is that women won't follow through, don't believe they deserve to be treated better.
I agree with you that it would be better to have a hearing and an adjudication before allegations are taken seriously, but just like with the sexual harassment accusations, how often does that happen? We're in a different land when it comes to these types of allegations. People can't apply cut and dried "law and order" principles to them, because that is not the reality of the landscape.

Understood. And agreed, mostly. BUT - on the other hand we can't just accept an accuser's allegations without question either, what a powerful way for a vengeful spouse to hammer her ex. Used to be the saying was that it's better for 9 guilty people to go free than have one innocent man go to jail. Yeah, it totally stinks for the 9 or more women that were victims of those 9 guilty guys that went free, but what's the alternative? All I've got is going case by case, especially when we're talking now about a guy losing his job prior to any court proceedings. In Porter's case, my gut feeling is that yeah he's guilty of abuse but a lot of people thought the same thing about that mens' college lacrosse team a few years back when several of the players were accused of sexual misconduct that subsequent were discovered to be not true. And, if you don't apply cut and dried law and order principles then what are you left with?