Pelosi Lies and Her Trip Is A Dud

[Gunny]

NO, she WAS NOT....

First, she notified the President that she was making this trip and the president did NOT ASK HER to stay home and not go...

I see. So all the media outlets that reported it were just making it up?
so your point is moot JUST on this....

Second, she only promoted the foreign policy of the President while she was there..... she made no foreign policy that was different....than our usa foreign policy.

So your point is moot again.

Incorrect. She conducted foreign policy period. The President has a Secretary of State to conduct foreign policy for him.

Third, she was on a fact finding mission and it is the duty of Congress to make such trips all the time...

Again, nulifying your accusations.

Incorrect. You are conveniently ignoring the links and excerpts provided. The law states that foreign policy is solely the function of the President, and further states Congress has no business in it.

Fourth, Republican congressmen were on the same fact finding trip with her and other Republican fact finding missions with congressmen going to syria took place the week before pelosi's and the week following pelosi's...

Where is YOUR outrage and accusations against them?

First, there is no outrage against Pelosi. Don't try to read something that isn't there. Second, you will find my condemnation of Republican congresspersons who visited Syrai against the President's wishes in my previous post.
I am afraid that you may have gotten caught up in to the partisan spin and not done enough fact finding on your own....do some outside reading...on this.

I am afraid you are ignoring the facts I presented in favor of your opinion.

and finally, WHY wasn't she charged with this crime that you bear false witness against her on?

care

I'm not the President so I cannot say why he chose not to press charges.

Again, my statement, which you have NOT refuted, is based on the Constitution and the legal precedent set by judicial ruling, only the President has authority to conduct foreign policy. Going to another nation as Speaker of the House and talking to Head of State about foreign policy is conducting foreign policy.

Simple as THAT.

 

[Care4all]

I'm not the President so I cannot say why he chose not to press charges.

Again, my statement, which you have NOT refuted, is based on the Constitution and the legal precedent set by judicial ruling, only the President has authority to conduct foreign policy. Going to another nation as Speaker of the House and talking to Head of State about foreign policy is conducting foreign policy.

Simple as THAT.

She did NOT go to Syria AGAINST the President's wishes...PERIOD.

The President or his office DID NOT ASK OR ORDER HER TO NOT GO ON THIS TRIP.

your point is moot. She broke no law, I am afraid that you are being "played" by your party.

the or your trusted media sources failed you.

Gunny, I know what the law is and I am not refuting the law, I am refuting that she broke it as you seem to think that she did based on your biased sources.

SINCE our beginning as a country, Congressmen have gone on fact finding trips to foreign countries and met with foreign leaders...

The President did not ask her to stop her trip or not go on it when she told his office she was going.... you seem to think that the president's office asked her NOT to go and she refused to oblidge and I would like to know WHERE IN THE HECK did this FALSE information come from and what made you readily believe it without question?

Why is this particular trip by pelosi the only one that has broken this law that you claim she broke?

Maybe that will help me understand where you are coming from?

Congress FUNDS our foreign affairs and is the "check" on the executive branch...that my friend, is constitutional and if you look around and also review some history you will see thousands of trips by our congressmen or Senators to foreign nations meeting with foreign leaders....

They were not "making foriegn policy" what makes YOU think this one trip of Pelosi's was any different?

Ahhhhhh, SOMEONE from your party has told you this and posted a few links to a few laws that they could FOOL you with by twisting them and you bought in to it lock, stock, and barrel it appears.

Use your God given brain on this and you will see that you are just passing on partisan hackery....and NOT the truth....

And what does it mean when some one is not telling the truth? It means that they are passing on lies, and I was always taught that this is not a good thing....

So please Gunny, STOP.....do some research and find out if Pelosi was ASKED by the President to NOT go on this trip and if she defied his orders before you go on....

thanks,

Care

 

[red states rule]

UNSC Poised to Criticize Syria (Again)
By David Schenker

Less than a week after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s counterproductive visit to Damascus, the UN is weighing in with its own assessment of Syrian policy. Press reports on April 9 indicated that France had circulated a draft UN Security Council statement expressing concern over the transfer of illegal arms from Syria to Lebanon. This Syrian transfer of weapons is rearming Hizballah in violation of UNSCR 1701.

This is not the first time that the UN has criticized the Syrian arms transfers to Hizballah after last summer’s disastrous war. In November 2006, Terje Roed-Larson the top UN diplomat on Lebanese-Syria affairs—who is not known for his favorable bias toward Israel—noted that the Syrians were rearming Hizballah.

During the war, it was revealed that Syria was not only serving as a transit point for Iranian weapons going to Hizballah, but was also providing Hizballah with its own top of the line cutting edge weapons—such as the Kornet anti-tank missile and 220 mm anti-personnel rockets—to the Lebanese terrorist organization. Many reports refer to this activity as “smuggling,” but Syria, a tightly controlled dictatorship, is not a place where this type of freelance political activity routinely occurs. As such, these weapons transfers should be understood as the policy emanating from Damascus.

Despite Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem’s denial to Pelosi of any smuggling of weapons across the border to Lebanon, Syrian weapons transfers to Hizballah remain a problem. It’s ironic that the UN is leading the charge against this counterproductive development as Pelosi and the US Congress—both Democrats and some Republicans—are looking to rehabilitate Damascus.


http://counterterrorismblog.org/

 

[red states rule]

Libs are soooooo gullible.

...they think that just because Nancy is old..that she has gained some wisdom in her years

 

[Gunny]

She did NOT go to Syria AGAINST the President's wishes...PERIOD.

The President or his office DID NOT ASK OR ORDER HER TO NOT GO ON THIS TRIP.

your point is moot. She broke no law, I am afraid that you are being "played" by your party.

the or your trusted media sources failed you.

I have no party, and I trust no single media source, and you are quite simply incorrect because you refuse to admit the obvious ... Pelosi was wrong to go to Syria when the President's standing order is tht Syria will not be negotiated with until it meets specific requirements concerning terrorists.
Gunny, I know what the law is and I am not refuting the law, I am refuting that she broke it as you seem to think that she did based on your biased sources.

You have yet to refute it, and I have used no biased sources, unless they were biased toward the left, just to ensure THIS very accusation holds no water

SINCE our beginning as a country, Congressmen have gone on fact finding trips to foreign countries and met with foreign leaders...

I have not disputed that. I merely am holding action up against the light of the law, not what people are "doing anyway."

The President did not ask her to stop her trip or not go on it when she told his office she was going.... you seem to think that the president's office asked her NOT to go and she refused to oblidge and I would like to know WHERE IN THE HECK did this FALSE information come from and what made you readily believe it without question?

The information came from several different media sources on the internet, none of them being Fox News.

Why is this particular trip by pelosi the only one that has broken this law that you claim she broke?

It isn't. I have addressed repeatedly that ANYONE who has done the same has violated the SAME law.

Maybe that will help me understand where you are coming from?

Congress FUNDS our foreign affairs and is the "check" on the executive branch...that my friend, is constitutional and if you look around and also review some history you will see thousands of trips by our congressmen or Senators to foreign nations meeting with foreign leaders....

You're repeating yourself. I understand Congress funds foreign affairs. I also understand according to law, Congress has no play in conducting foreign affairs.

They were not "making foriegn policy" what makes YOU think this one trip of Pelosi's was any different?

I never contended that it was.

Ahhhhhh, SOMEONE from your party has told you this and posted a few links to a few laws that they could FOOL you with by twisting them and you bought in to it lock, stock, and barrel it appears.

Again, I have no party. But it appears you have the talking points of YOUR party down pat. I'd say YOU are doing the twisting.

Use your God given brain on this and you will see that you are just passing on partisan hackery....and NOT the truth....



And what does it mean when some one is not telling the truth? It means that they are passing on lies, and I was always taught that this is not a good thing....

So please Gunny, STOP.....do some research and find out if Pelosi was ASKED by the President to NOT go on this trip and if she defied his orders before you go on....

thanks,

Care

I have a better idea. Take YOUR partisan blinders off and quit hanging on to that Dem umbilical cord, and read the law. You're spinning out of control and have provided nothing to refute the law. You think just because this incident involved Pelosi, I am attacking some Dem without an argument, when in fact, I am attacking a Congressperson clearly out of bounds of Congress's role in foreign policy as defined by law.

YOU, not I continue trying to make this a partisan issue.

 

[Care4all]

I have a better idea. Take YOUR partisan blinders off and quit hanging on to that Dem umbilical cord, and read the law. You're spinning out of control and have provided nothing to refute the law. You think just because this incident involved Pelosi, I am attacking some Dem without an argument, when in fact, I am attacking a Congressperson clearly out of bounds of Congress's role in foreign policy as defined by law.

YOU, not I continue trying to make this a partisan issue.

Oh dear....Gunny, Pelosi did not break the Law, PERIOD. Just as the Republican convoy of congressmen that visited the leaders of Syria 3 days before pelosi's vist and 4 days after her visit.

The White House was notified and told of her trip. The White House could have told her not to go, that she would be breaking the law if she did go....and the white house could have also told the other republican convoys not to go to syria, that they too would be breaking "this law" that you speak about, but they did NOT.

you ARE BEING A child AND NOT ALLOWING logic AND facts TO MERGE.

Disappointing....to say the least....especially when there are real issues to be pissed at the Dems for or repubs for....instead, passing LIES about someone is more important.....shameful imo!

PROVE please, how she broke this law....SHOW us how she broke this law, in writing please....ALSO make sure you INCLUDE the other envoys this same week visiting Syria...SHOW HOW they broke this law.....

I'll be waiting.

Care

 

[red states rule]

Illegal Diplomacy
Did Nancy Pelosi commit a felony when she went to Syria?

BY ROBERT F. TURNER
Friday, April 6, 2007 11:30 a.m. EDT

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may well have committed a felony in traveling to Damascus this week, against the wishes of the president, to communicate on foreign-policy issues with Syrian President Bashar Assad. The administration isn't going to want to touch this political hot potato, nor should it become a partisan issue. Maybe special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, whose aggressive prosecution of Lewis Libby establishes his independence from White House influence, should be called back.

The Logan Act makes it a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to three years for any American, "without authority of the United States," to communicate with a foreign government in an effort to influence that government's behavior on any "disputes or controversies with the United States." Some background on this statute helps to understand why Ms. Pelosi may be in serious trouble.

President John Adams requested the statute after a Pennsylvania pacifist named George Logan traveled to France in 1798 to assure the French government that the American people favored peace in the undeclared "Quasi War" being fought on the high seas between the two countries. In proposing the law, Rep. Roger Griswold of Connecticut explained that the object was, as recorded in the Annals of Congress, "to punish a crime which goes to the destruction of the executive power of the government. He meant that description of crime which arises from an interference of individual citizens in the negotiations of our executive with foreign governments."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009908

 

[Care4all]

Perino last week described Pelosi's visit to Syria as a really bad idea.

Later Monday, the U.S. State Department disclosed that the Bush administration briefed Pelosi for her trip while publicly criticizing her decision.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html

Now tell me again on WHO is PLAYING politics on this?

The White House BRIEFS pelosi before she leaves on this trip....

And is CONDI RICE now breaking the law because she NOW decided a month later that it was ok to visit Syria and negotiate with them after pelosi's visit?

 

[red states rule]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html

Now tell me again on WHO is PLAYING politics on this?

The White House BRIEFS pelosi before she leaves on this trip....

And is CONDI RICE now breaking the law because she NOW decided a month later that it was ok to visit Syria and negotiate with them after pelosi's visit?

Condi is Sec of State

Pelosi is Speaker of of the House

 

[Care4all]

Condi is Sec of State

Pelosi is Speaker of of the House

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html



Later Monday, the U.S. State Department disclosed that the Bush administration briefed Pelosi for her trip while publicly criticizing her decision.

IF PELOSI was breaking the Law, WOULD the whitehouse HAVE BRIEFED HER, before her trip?

I am sorry, but if you and gunny can't see that YOU have been played like a violin by the partisan RHETORIC of the Republicans on this, then I just don't know what to say? They spinned this from hell to high water....briefing her behind closed doors while criticizing her in the public....shameful....pointing out her envoy and not mention their displeasure in the other envoys the same week and the previous 3 years made by republicans.... that alone should have been an eye opener to the spin...BUT HEY, not for you repubs....

Other than that, we will have to agree to disagree on this...

 

[red states rule]

IF PELOSI was breaking the Law, WOULD the whitehouse HAVE BRIEFED HER, before her trip?

I am sorry, but if you and gunny can't see that YOU have been played like a violin by the partisan RHETORIC of the Republicans on this, then I just don't know what to say? They spinned this from hell to high water....briefing her behind closed doors while criticizing her in the public....shameful....pointing out her envoy and not mention their displeasure in the other envoys the same week and the previous 3 years made by republicans.... that alone should have been an eye opener to the spin...BUT HEY, not for you repubs....

Other than that, we will have to agree to disagree on this...

What was Bush going to do? Lock her in a room somewhere?

She is free to travel but she was going on a her own foreign policy trip

Everyones knows waht see was doing - even other Dems said she was on her own foreign policy mission

 

[Care4all]

What was Bush going to do? Lock her in a room somewhere?

She is free to travel but she was going on a her own foreign policy trip

Everyones knows waht see was doing - even other Dems said she was on her own foreign policy mission

The white HOuse, when they briefed her, could have TOLD HER that she was BREAKING THE LAW if she went to visit Syria....

IF the LAW was actually being broken....but as I have said over and over and over again, the LAW was obviously NOT broken, regardless of the EDITORIALS AND OPINIONS that you and gunny seem to believe.

This was PURELY POLITICAL SPIN, and NOTHING more than that....

BOTH sides of the aisle do it....this time the Republicans and the White House tried to spin this in to a mountain out of a mole hill while they briefed Pelosi behind closed doors....

Next time it will be a Dem spinned issue....

It happens and I for one make myself aware of this particular tactic and try to keep on top of the TRUTH....so that I do not become a PAWN of my political party's whims....

Care

 

[Care4all]

BTW it was a foreign policy FACT FINDING TRIP....

Congress members go on them all the time...everytime they officially visit a foreign country....this IS PART of Congress's job.

 

[no1tovote4]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/845016.html

Now tell me again on WHO is PLAYING politics on this?

The White House BRIEFS pelosi before she leaves on this trip....

And is CONDI RICE now breaking the law because she NOW decided a month later that it was ok to visit Syria and negotiate with them after pelosi's visit?

Condi is part of the Executive Branch and would be going with Presidential Authority and thus well within the bounds of this law that has never once been used in the 200 years it has been around.

Did they brief Pelosi? I'd like to see that.

 

[no1tovote4]

BTW it was a foreign policy FACT FINDING TRIP....

Congress members go on them all the time...everytime they officially visit a foreign country....this IS PART of Congress's job.

It would be legal, and I would agree had she not expressed what they "should not do" and incorrectly expressed Israel's position. If she did get a briefing from the WH, it didn't really stick.

 

[Care4all]

It would be legal, and I would agree had she not expressed what they "should not do" and incorrectly expressed Israel's position. If she did get a briefing from the WH, it didn't really stick.

I disagree, many of the articles say that she STRENGTHENED the usa policy because she stood by the white house briefing and usa policy and showed Syria that although we have separate branches of government and different ideas among our representatives, she STOOD BY the President on this....

Care

 

[maineman]

It would be legal, and I would agree had she not expressed what they "should not do" and incorrectly expressed Israel's position. If she did get a briefing from the WH, it didn't really stick.

she was not negotiating or doing anything other than getting a first hand understanding of the area and expressing her opinion. She broke no law....but I am not surprised that republicans would rather talk about this little diversion and make this molehill into a mountain in hopes that Americans will ignore the real mountain of dead american servicemen and women who are dying at an ever INCREASING rate in Iraq. FACT: American casaulties over the last 7 months 52% HIGHER than the seven months before that. But let's spend all fucking day indicting Pelosi for violation of the Logan Act. That shows the real priorities of the right.

 

[Care4all]

McCormack said the State Department tried to discourage Pelosi and the others from visiting Syria but agreed to give their staff a pre-trip briefing. The U.S. Embassy in Damascus also is expected to assist the delegation

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O6MTT80&show_article=1&catnum=0

they tried to discourage her....they did not officially ask her not to go, she did NOT break the LAW, and that was MY POINT.

And those that keep reiterating that she broke the law are just plain WRONG and passing on a lie, imho...simple as that....

Care

 

[no1tovote4]

I disagree, many of the articles say that she STRENGTHENED the usa policy because she stood by the white house briefing and usa policy and showed Syria that although we have separate branches of government and different ideas among our representatives, she STOOD BY the President on this....

Care

Yet iterating a position on Foreign Policy is conducting foreign relations. So, the "she supported Bush" theory wouldn't be a defense here.

If you read the law it really doesn't matter what she says, it matters where she goes. That Bush objected to all trips to Syria by other than those he sends pretty much tells you that he didn't send her there with the authority to conduct a foreign relations mission.

As I said, the law has never been used and likely never will be.

 

[maineman]

and how come the right makes a big deal about how wrong Pelosi was for visiting Syria and NOBODY from the right EVER says BOO about Robert Aderholt of Alabama, Frank Wolf of Virginia and Darrell Issa of California - all REPUBLICAN congressman - doing EXACTLY the same thing?

When will I hear the cries from the right that Aderholt, Wolf and Issa be charged for vioations of the Logan Act?

Anytime soon?

I didn't think so.