Originally posted by ajwps
---The Declaration of Indepence supercedes all man made amendments to the Constitution which permits such amendments to begin with:
That any government, whether it be Federal, State, Local or Municipal has NO right to remove these three unalienable freedoms inherent in all men and women nor infringe on men or women's safety and happiness. Nor interfer with a woman's safety and her right to her own happiness to continue with a non-souled entity within her. How much clearer does anyone need it to be that no human beings safety or happiness can be legislated away from them. The unborn child, like any alien is not a human until such time as the Creator makes it another citizen of this world. Neither the government, you or I know when that occurs.
First, while the Declaration is a very important paper, and while it is in many ways the foundation of our government, it technicaly has no legal standing - that is, one cannot appeal a law simply because it violates something in the DoI. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
Secondly, while the government is there to allow for our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, every law on the books is there to decrease those rights in return for internal security. For example, it made Gary Ridgeway (the Green River Killer) very happy to pick up prostitutes, kill them, and throw their bodies in the river. Obviously, it's against the law, even though it infringes on his right to pursue happiness.
Jesus did speak on homosexuality as defined in his Father's Old Testament. If Jesus did deem abortion a sin then he would certainly have mentioned it. Jesus did not talk about gun control as there were no guns to control. But Jesus reiterated his Father's commandment to refrain from the murder of living soul bearing human beings. If Jesus had an opinion on abortion, he certainly did keep it to himself otherwise you would see the anti-abortionist (killers) screaming from their voice boxes about it ad-nausem.
OK, let me clarify... Jesus, during His earthly ministry, did not address homosexuality. This is because people understood that is was wrong.
Correct.... The Old Testament spoke against homosexuality but referenced the fact that a human being does not obtain the soul (as we understand it) until it took it's first breath and like with Adam throughout the eons of time. In the case of abortion, it was not illegal and was not carried on in back alleys or garages but was done by the healers of the day with herbs and medicaments that induced the aborting of the fetus. Abortion in the time of Jesus was open and there was no prohibition against it as referenced by the only historian of that time. His name was Josephus.
How about the OT references like, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you," (Jeremiah), or similiar references in the Psalms? It would seem that a human is known by God before most people today would call that person a "viable fetus."
I have not read Josephus, but I have never heard of his references to abortion. I don't suppose you could summarize them? I find it hard to believe that, in an age when many infants didn't survive their first years, and people had several children in the hopes that a few survived, that abortion would have been widespread.
Firstly I did not say that Jesus 'could not' prohibit abortion, I said he did not prohibit abortion. Secondly how is that you are aware of the morays and understandings of the people of Jesus time in Israel concerning abortions? For the historian Josephus didn't even find it important enough to mention that there was concern about the removal of a non-living baby with no soul growing in it's mother's womb of that time. As a matter of fact, the Old Testament gives significant evidence that a baby that never had taken a breath (i.e., still born or aborted) need not have the usual burial rights but if the baby died after its first breath it deserved the full burial rites and prayers of a living human being.
Here's your exact quote:
If Jesus could not prohibit abortion, how is it that his church seems to know more than Jesus himself?
Religious rites aside, it was still a tragedy when a baby was bron stillborn.
The religious Jews (and Jesus was a religious Jew) continue this Torah (Old Testament) edict to this very day.
All man has to go on is the words that were supposedly written by the Creator and not everyone imposing their personal opinions on others.
First, Jesus was the opposite of a religious Jew - in fact, he condemned the Jew's religiousness because in practicing the Law, they lost sight of the spirit of the Law. If Jesus had beena typical religious Jew, He would not have been so reviled by the priests of the day.
Second, if the words were only "supposedly" written by the Creator, what weight does that hold? It might as well just be another book - unless the words are truly divinely inspired. But that's another thread altogether.
But definitely not on the abortion topic.
