Palin Death Panel Derangement Syndrome..

[daveman]

Idiots call them "death panels". Doctors and insurance companies call them evidence-based practices.

Evidence-based practice means that clinicians use evaluation and treatment procedures for particular disorders and populations. Evidence-based practice also takes into account current understanding of the patho-physiology of the disorder(s) being treated, clinical expertise, and the client’s preferences for treatment.

Evidence-based practice means that clinicians are using procedures that have been studied carefully and those results have been reviewed and published.

And idiots don't pay attention.

The members of those panels, according to the terms of the ACA, are appointees by the President and do not need to be clinicians.

Now, seeing as he had a HOST of people with great experience in web development to choose from and he failed miserably at that...what makes you think he will chose qualified members of the panels?

 

[g5000]

I see you fell for the rhetoric.

I am not surprised.

Please explain how that differs from what health insurance companies have been doing since the beginning.

Insurance companies did not have the ability to say a universal "no" to you.

The ACA is set up so that all you need is one "no" and it means you can not do anything else here in the united states.....you would have to cross the border if you wanted a second opinion.

Link?

 

[g5000]

Idiots call them "death panels". Doctors and insurance companies call them evidence-based practices.

Evidence-based practice means that clinicians use evaluation and treatment procedures for particular disorders and populations. Evidence-based practice also takes into account current understanding of the patho-physiology of the disorder(s) being treated, clinical expertise, and the client’s preferences for treatment.

Evidence-based practice means that clinicians are using procedures that have been studied carefully and those results have been reviewed and published.

And idiots don't pay attention.

The members of those panels, according to the terms of the ACA, are appointees by the President and do not need to be clinicians.

Link?

 

[francoHFW]

19- Horse patoot.

 

[g5000]

And idiots don't pay attention.

The members of those panels, according to the terms of the ACA, are appointees by the President and do not need to be clinicians.

Nice try.

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Advisory Boards, Commissions, Councils and Committees

In March 2010, President Obama signed into law the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and related amendments ("ACA") to help achieve significant health reform in the United States. ACA authorized the creation of numerous advisory boards, commissions, councils and committees.

CLINICAL TRIALS ADVISORY PANEL

Purpose

To carry out randomized clinical trials under the research project agenda as well as advise the institute and the agency, instrumentality, or entity conducting the research on the research question involved and the research design or protocol, including important patient subgroups and other parameters of the research. The panel will be available as a resource for technical questions that may arise during research.

Membership/Composition Rules

The panels will include representatives of practicing and research clinicians, patients, and experts in scientific and health services research, health services delivery, and evidence-based medicine who have experience in the relevant topic, and as appropriate, experts in integrative health and primary prevention strategies.

 

[g5000]

From the ACA itself:

PATIENT-CENTERED OUTCOMES RESEARCH INSTITUTE.—
‘‘(1) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is authorized to be established
a nonprofit corporation, to be known as the ‘Patient-
Centered Outcomes Research Institute’ (referred to in this section
as the ‘Institute&#8217 which is neither an agency nor establishment
of the United States Government.
‘‘(2) APPLICATION OF PROVISIONS.—The Institute shall be
subject to the provisions of this section, and, to the extent consistent
with this section, to the District of Columbia Nonprofit
Corporation Act.
‘‘(3) FUNDING OF COMPARATIVE CLINICAL EFFECTIVENESS
RESEARCH.—For fiscal year 2010 and each subsequent fiscal
year, amounts in the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research
Trust Fund (referred to in this section as the ‘PCORTF&#8217 under
section 9511 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall be
available, without further appropriation, to the Institute to
carry out this section.
‘‘(c) PURPOSE.—The purpose of the Institute is to assist patients,
clinicians, purchasers, and policy-makers in making informed
health decisions by advancing the quality and relevance of
evidence concerning the manner in which diseases, disorders, and
other health conditions can effectively and appropriately be prevented,
diagnosed, treated, monitored, and managed through research
and evidence synthesis that considers variations in patient
subpopulations, and the dissemination of research findings with respect
to the relative health outcomes, clinical effectiveness, and appropriateness
of the medical treatments, services, and items described
in subsection (a)(2)(B).

COMPOSITION.—An expert advisory panel appointed
under subparagraph (A) shall include representatives
of practicing and research clinicians, patients, and
experts in scientific and health services research, health
services delivery, and evidence-based medicine who have
experience in the relevant topic, and as appropriate, experts
in integrative health and primary prevention strategies.
The Institute may include a technical expert of each
manufacturer or each medical technology that is included
under the relevant topic, project, or category for which the
panel is established.

 

[TheShinyOne]

There's racism in America, yes? So why wouldn't there be death panels? What do you think they're for? Wake up, Democrats. We've been trying to explain this to you, so far the most simple way that pretty much anyone can understand, and in your denial you'll just spit about Godwin's Law and how that automatically discredits us simply for making the comparison between you and Hitler. Well, you're a full blown Nazi now, Democrat. Get used to it.

 

[ron4342]

Oh, goodness, it's spreading.

We all recall how that awful Sarah Palin talked about death panels as a necessary part of BarryCare, sort of like what goes on in England and elsewhere when it comes to things like who gets that replacement hip and who doesn't.

Well now that lefty "journalist" Mark Halperin has jumped on the Palin death panels bandwagon, so I'm sure he'll be taken to the woodshed by the liars in charge of the Dimocrat party, MSNBC stars, and assorted other nitwits.

"The Affordable Care Act contains provisions for "death panels," which decide which critically ill patients receive care and which don't, says Mark Halperin, senior political analyst for Time magazine."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Here's the rest...Mark Halperin: Obamacare Contains 'Death Panels'

Oh, course it is Newsmax so they probably just made the whole thing up.

Death panels have been in existance in this country since health insurance was first introduced. Of course, they didn't call it a death panel. Sometimes it was "pre-existing condition." Other times it was called "No experimental procedures." It was also called "Your insurance has been canceled." Occasionally it was called "This illness is not covered in your policy."
So, who do you trust more, the government or the insurance company? To me this is an easy question. The primary goal of insurance company's is to make money, not to help sick people. The insurance company is in business to make a profit and denying people medical care they have paid for helps make that profit larger. On the other hand, the government is not in business to make money.

Neither is government in business to give a damn about people.

Perhaps you should take a second to read the Preamble to the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

What do you think "... promote the general welfare ..." means? You say the government doesn't "give a damn about people." If such is the case, why do we have the FDA, EPA, national parks, CDC, and on, and on, and on? These departments DO NOT benefit the governent, but they do benefit the people of this country.

 

[boilermaker55]

Your intelligent response would be?

Oh, goodness, it's spreading.

We all recall how that awful Sarah Palin talked about death panels as a necessary part of BarryCare, sort of like what goes on in England and elsewhere when it comes to things like who gets that replacement hip and who doesn't.

Well now that lefty "journalist" Mark Halperin has jumped on the Palin death panels bandwagon, so I'm sure he'll be taken to the woodshed by the liars in charge of the Dimocrat party, MSNBC stars, and assorted other nitwits.

"The Affordable Care Act contains provisions for "death panels," which decide which critically ill patients receive care and which don't, says Mark Halperin, senior political analyst for Time magazine."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

Here's the rest...Mark Halperin: Obamacare Contains 'Death Panels'

Oh, course it is Newsmax so they probably just made the whole thing up.

Death panels have been in existance in this country since health insurance was first introduced. Of course, they didn't call it a death panel. Sometimes it was "pre-existing condition." Other times it was called "No experimental procedures." It was also called "Your insurance has been canceled." Occasionally it was called "This illness is not covered in your policy."
So, who do you trust more, the government or the insurance company? To me this is an easy question. The primary goal of insurance company's is to make money, not to help sick people. The insurance company is in business to make a profit and denying people medical care they have paid for helps make that profit larger. On the other hand, the government is not in business to make money.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, so this topic has come up here on and off over the last few years. The response of the Left has been:

1) It doesn't exist. "Show us where in ACA there is a provision for death panels."
2) It is what insurance companies do now anyway (which isnt true but anyway)
3)It doesnt really mean that.

All of it is a lie. The truth is that Obamacare increases health care costs dramatically. It does not "bend down the cost curve". That is another leftist nudnik talking point long debunked. It raises costs. The system will only survive by containing costs. The way you contain costs is to curb marginal treatments. What counts as a "marginal treatment"? It is whatever the unelected bureaucrats decide it is. DOes an 80 yr old man need a pace maker? Well, clinically the typical 80yr old man has less than 5 years to live so no. Tell that to Alan Greenspan (87), Sumner Redstone (90), or George HW Bush (89).
Further, every system of managed care ends up doing exactly that, rationing health care. I recall Oregon did exactly that. So it is no guess. It is no paranoia. It is reality.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"The Affordable Care Act contains provisions for "death panels," which decide which critically ill patients receive care and which don't, says Mark Halperin, senior political analyst for Time magazine."

Please explain how that differs from what health insurance companies have been doing since the beginning.

You could go to another insurance company, you could find the financial means thru other sources. The point is that the government didn't have life or death decisions over your life. Why is that concept so difficult to grasp?

So you believe that the ACA can step in and deny someone treatment even if they want it and have the personal means to pay for it?

I'd like to see proof of that.

 

[ron4342]

OK, so this topic has come up here on and off over the last few years. The response of the Left has been:

1) It doesn't exist. "Show us where in ACA there is a provision for death panels."
2) It is what insurance companies do now anyway (which isnt true but anyway)
3)It doesnt really mean that.

All of it is a lie. The truth is that Obamacare increases health care costs dramatically. It does not "bend down the cost curve". That is another leftist nudnik talking point long debunked. It raises costs. The system will only survive by containing costs. The way you contain costs is to curb marginal treatments. What counts as a "marginal treatment"? It is whatever the unelected bureaucrats decide it is. DOes an 80 yr old man need a pace maker? Well, clinically the typical 80yr old man has less than 5 years to live so no. Tell that to Alan Greenspan (87), Sumner Redstone (90), or George HW Bush (89).
Further, every system of managed care ends up doing exactly that, rationing health care. I recall Oregon did exactly that. So it is no guess. It is no paranoia. It is reality.

Translation: I know what I believe and I will not let facts or the truth change my mind.

 

[Rebelitarian]

Death Panels – More Lies from Obama

Link fixed: "Death Panels - 'It's built into the plan' (PEOPLE NEED TO SEE THIS VIDEO!)

http://www.4shared.com/video/0BiTrHTw/Death_Panels_-_Its_built_into_.html

Obama caught in yet another lie. Is the guy a pathological liar or what?

The lame stream media has been forced to admit that Obama lied. Now they attempt to justify the lie saying "death panels" (aka rationing) are necessary.

How many lies does one President get, before he is FIRED? How many more lies will you accept from the lamestream media before you turn your TV off? They lie, they spin, then they lie again!

 

[Rebelitarian]

Link fixed: "Death Panels - 'It's built into the plan' (PEOPLE NEED TO SEE THIS VIDEO!)

Death Panels - 'It's built into the plan' - Download, Play - 4shared - jofortruth truth

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, so this topic has come up here on and off over the last few years. The response of the Left has been:

1) It doesn't exist. "Show us where in ACA there is a provision for death panels."
2) It is what insurance companies do now anyway (which isnt true but anyway)
3)It doesnt really mean that.

All of it is a lie. The truth is that Obamacare increases health care costs dramatically. It does not "bend down the cost curve". That is another leftist nudnik talking point long debunked. It raises costs. The system will only survive by containing costs. The way you contain costs is to curb marginal treatments. What counts as a "marginal treatment"? It is whatever the unelected bureaucrats decide it is. DOes an 80 yr old man need a pace maker? Well, clinically the typical 80yr old man has less than 5 years to live so no. Tell that to Alan Greenspan (87), Sumner Redstone (90), or George HW Bush (89).
Further, every system of managed care ends up doing exactly that, rationing health care. I recall Oregon did exactly that. So it is no guess. It is no paranoia. It is reality.

Translation: I know what I believe and I will not let facts or the truth change my mind.

Translation: I cannot refute any of that or add any intelligent comment so I'll open my mouth and derp on the thread.
Another faker pretending to be an ex-Republican.

 

[Kosh]

I guess the far left will ignore the fact that Obama will hand pick 15 people to decide what will be covered case by case starting in 2014.

So yes you will die while one waits 6 to 9 months for this panel to decide if your medical care is necessary and will be paid for by the government. In 2016 this gang of 15 will also make these decisions for those that got health insurance on the exchanges. In 2014 it will be only for those on Medicare.

 

[Jarhead]

Please explain how that differs from what health insurance companies have been doing since the beginning.

You could go to another insurance company, you could find the financial means thru other sources. The point is that the government didn't have life or death decisions over your life. Why is that concept so difficult to grasp?

So you believe that the ACA can step in and deny someone treatment even if they want it and have the personal means to pay for it?

I'd like to see proof of that.

Actually, it is true.

It is not that the law prevents a person from paying for it themselves.

The law prevents the healthcare giver from performing the procedure.

Read the law. THEN debate it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You could go to another insurance company, you could find the financial means thru other sources. The point is that the government didn't have life or death decisions over your life. Why is that concept so difficult to grasp?

So you believe that the ACA can step in and deny someone treatment even if they want it and have the personal means to pay for it?

I'd like to see proof of that.

Actually, it is true.

It is not that the law prevents a person from paying for it themselves.

The law prevents the healthcare giver from performing the procedure.

Read the law. THEN debate it.

It's your claim, quote and link to the applicable regulation.

 

[daveman]

Death panels have been in existance in this country since health insurance was first introduced. Of course, they didn't call it a death panel. Sometimes it was "pre-existing condition." Other times it was called "No experimental procedures." It was also called "Your insurance has been canceled." Occasionally it was called "This illness is not covered in your policy."
So, who do you trust more, the government or the insurance company? To me this is an easy question. The primary goal of insurance company's is to make money, not to help sick people. The insurance company is in business to make a profit and denying people medical care they have paid for helps make that profit larger. On the other hand, the government is not in business to make money.

Neither is government in business to give a damn about people.

Perhaps you should take a second to read the Preamble to the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

What do you think "... promote the general welfare ..." means? You say the government doesn't "give a damn about people." If such is the case, why do we have the FDA, EPA, national parks, CDC, and on, and on, and on? These departments DO NOT benefit the governent, but they do benefit the people of this country.

Some more than others. Some...not so much.

And if you're relying on the benevolence and kindness of government, you're pretty much screwed.

 

[daveman]

OK, so this topic has come up here on and off over the last few years. The response of the Left has been:

1) It doesn't exist. "Show us where in ACA there is a provision for death panels."
2) It is what insurance companies do now anyway (which isnt true but anyway)
3)It doesnt really mean that.

All of it is a lie. The truth is that Obamacare increases health care costs dramatically. It does not "bend down the cost curve". That is another leftist nudnik talking point long debunked. It raises costs. The system will only survive by containing costs. The way you contain costs is to curb marginal treatments. What counts as a "marginal treatment"? It is whatever the unelected bureaucrats decide it is. DOes an 80 yr old man need a pace maker? Well, clinically the typical 80yr old man has less than 5 years to live so no. Tell that to Alan Greenspan (87), Sumner Redstone (90), or George HW Bush (89).
Further, every system of managed care ends up doing exactly that, rationing health care. I recall Oregon did exactly that. So it is no guess. It is no paranoia. It is reality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/h...-on-bill-to-limit-health-care-costs.html?_r=0

Although Massachusetts, under Gov. Mitt Romney, in 2006 became the first state to require most residents to have health insurance — the model for President Obama’s national health care overhaul — the law did little to slow health care costs that were already among the highest in the nation. Such spending has increased by 6 percent or 7 percent a year recently, compared with annual state economic growth of less than 4 percent.​