Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[Hossfly]

You can post a thousand stories if you want. I think the bottom line is that the people in the organizations who live in the area and see what is going on are more reliable than anything you can say.

Ah, so that is why you ignore people who live in the area.

Got it.

Why not be honest about it - you will back anything that is consistent with your world view regardless of the source, and dismiss anything which is not consistent with your world view, regardless of the source.

Isn't that strange that Saigon has nothing to say against the pro Palestinian posters? He actually is very quiet about anything they say. He doesn't seem to care about the news coming out of Indonesia where people can't freely practice their own beliefs. Meanwhile, Fred is just one guy, but the groups reporting out of Indonesia about what is happening to their brethren are more than one. Do you think they are all lying, Saigon? By the way, do you happen to be a Sunni, Saigon? Maybe Saigon can tell us everything is honky dory in the Sunni world and they just go about their business and leave those of other religions and other sects alone.

 

[irosie91]

Indofred lied-----in fact ---muslims are enjoined to NEVER
speak against a muslim ----to a non muslim -----in shariah
law-----the IN COURT testimony of a non muslim has no value
at all------and is ILLEGAL if it defies the word of a muslim.

And Catholics never drink, swear, nor fornicate outside of marriage, so if you saw a Catholic doing any of those things, it must have actually been someone else who looked like the person you know.

Again, Rosie, your perspective of Islam is twisted and pervserse. It always sounds to me like you are talking about the world in 1855 rather than 2013.

try again saigon----I cited SHARIAH LAW and ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY----at no point
did I suggest that muslims never say negative things about each other ----islamic law
also states that muslims may not drink alcohol Of the MANY muslims I have
known well-------MOST DRANK AT THE VERY LEAST----beer -- Your comment is as idiotic as your signature------now try to think------who is it who has lots of knowlege about
VIOLENT CRIME taking place locally------think EMERGENCY ROOM How much
do people like you pay the orderlies to pass information to your eager little ears?.
I got bad news for you-----your informants are not all that accurate----you
guys always get it SCREWED UP-----sometimes comically so

now try hard----cite something I have said about islamic law or ideology that
is incorrect------go right ahead and display your the depth of your
ignorance -------uhm ----let me see I lied about that rule that muslims
not drink alcohol? I lied when I wrote ---lots do??? I lied about the testimony
thing? ----oh I know-----you are going to tell me that islamic countries often do not
USE SHARIAH COURTS--------did I insist that they all always do? ----some do---
some don't ---its a more or less thing ---over both time and space.
There are lots of people in lots of places that want it VERY MUCH ---VERY VERY MUCH---
lots of people think that is a good thing------I consider it an ATROCITY----ok
now you can tell me that NO ONE IN INDONESIA wants it------that makes
you a LIAR Lie a bit less and tell me VERY FEW MUSLIMS WANT IT-----maybe
a few dozen..........

 

[Saigon]

Isn't that strange that Saigon has nothing to say against the pro Palestinian posters?

It's not strange, because it is not true.

I've criticised and disagreed with some of our pro-Palestinian posters here at some point, because they support violence as a tool and I do not.

He doesn't seem to care about the news coming out of Indonesia

I care enough to have gone there myself twice in the past five years. I have several Indonesian friends. In that sense I have far more reason to care about religious intolerance there than you do.

I love going for a beer with my friend 'A', who is a devout Muslim and does not drink, but often insists I do. She doesn't veil, doesn't need her husband's permission to hang out with me, nor her father's - and I have asked.

If that were to stop, I would be very concerned. But I don't see it happening. Indonesia seems to be becoming more moderate to me.

Funnily enough, my pick of the best bar in the world is in Indonesia! (KuDeTa, a little north of Kuta Beach)

Do you think they are all lying, Saigon?

I think some report true events, and that is great. But I think many also start from a position of hatred, and will write whatever they think you want to hear. Others have absolutely no idea about the country or culture they are writing about. It depends on the source.

 

[Indofred]

Everyone realizes that rape is a problem around the world, Fred, but if you would research it, your brethren are raping their way across Europe. Not only that, but in some Muslims countries young Christian and Hindu girls are being kidnapped, raped, and then forced into Islam. ............

You asked me for links so I provide them below.
It's up to you to prove your claim. Please post evidence of claims as above.
For every Muslim you claim rapes, I'll provide you with an American, British or whatever non Muslim doing the same.
Thing is, you deny the truth in order to propagate a lie that fits what you want people to believe.

Meanwhile, can you give us many cases of the IDF raping children? As far as I know, there was an incident a while back of them sleeping with someone who was young and they thought she was older, but you make it sound like this is a regular habit of the IDF. Can you back this up for us from a legitimate source? I am sure you will never find anything like what the Muslims did in Bangladesh.

I'm sure you're wrong.

IDF soldier charged with rape - Israel News, Ynetnews
IDF colonel-rabbi implies: Rape is permitted in war | +972 Magazine
42 days jail for 10 air force men in underage sex scandal - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
IDF physician under investigation for multiple rapes and sexual assaults Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
General Staff document: Large rise in number of rapes in IDF - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

and the real fun - from an Israeli news outlet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haai4ZH9w9E]Two Danish girls raped by 3 Israeli Kibbutzim - Rapists went unpunished - YouTube[/ame]

So, Israelis are the good guys but Muslims are rapists.

Get real - All groups have their bad people and, until you admit it, you'll never sort out the problem.

 

[Hossfly]

Doesn't it strike you as strange that you hate in exactly the same way as the Muslim extremists you hate so much?

I have thought the same on so many threads. The posters here MUST realise that they represent the same kind of intolerant racism that they condemn....surely?

We've seen on this thread already that neither Rosie nor Hoss will say a word against Hindu
violence - so we know they issue is not with violence, but only with Islam.

We know there is violence all over the world, but at this point in time, is it really that difficult for you and Fred to admit that most of the violence nowadays is coming from the Muslims in many different locations?

Indonesia Islamic Hard-Liners Attack Ahmadiyah for Koran Recital

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

There is a difference between it being "difficult to admit" something, and not believing that it is true.

There is no question that Islam has a problem with violence as a concept, no question that Islam is too often associated with terrorism, and no question that 5-6 Islamic countries are the kind of 'cesspits' Rosie refers to, but I also know of 20 Islamic countries that are relatively peaceful and not in any way more violent than neighbouring countries. Given the problems in countries like Sri Lanka, India, Burma and Philippines, I tend to see the violence as often as regional as religious.

Is Indonesia a less tolerant society than the largely Catholic Philippines or Buddhist Burma?

No, I don't believe it is.

 

[Indofred]

Meanwhile, Fred is just one guy, but the groups reporting out of Indonesia about what is happening to their brethren are more than one. Do you think they are all lying, Saigon? .

But I don't say there isn't a problem here, there clearly is.
However, it isn't as big as some news outlets say it is.
There are temples, churches and mosques all in the same area as each other and no one much cares either way.
If you take a look at my picture thread, you'll see real life here, not a skewed opinion of what it's like.
You'll see very few women dressed in clothes that wouldn't be perfectly acceptable in a mid west town, a head scarf is optional and men wear clothes you would expect to see in a warm climate.

No rampaging gangs, raping Christian girls, no smashing churches or destroying temples.
I don't claim there aren't any idiots, there are, but they're a minority.

 

[Indofred]

We know there is violence all over the world, but at this point in time, is it really that difficult for you and Fred to admit that most of the violence nowadays is coming from the Muslims in many different locations?

Most violence but you post one video of nutters in Indonesia.
If you want violence, take a look at the number of murders in America and compare that with the number here.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ_Vxoyu8zY]Inside Abu Ghraib Pt.1 (Iraq prison camp, CBC) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9Wr8na6js&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZJ9Wr8na6js&has_verified=1]Police Brutality In America - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F09e-pI6eoA]Gang Violence In America - Intro - YouTube[/ame]

Of course the FPI are a big problem but hardly shows Muslims up as violent tribes.

Try this one from England.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkYzHvEH8w]English Defence League (EDL) 2010 Violence - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKBitUEBeq8]EDL March Rotherham - YouTube[/ame]

How many Muslims do you see?

 

[Hossfly]

We know there is violence all over the world, but at this point in time, is it really that difficult for you and Fred to admit that most of the violence nowadays is coming from the Muslims in many different locations?

Most violence but you post one video of nutters in Indonesia.
If you want violence, take a look at the number of murders in America and compare that with the number here.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ_Vxoyu8zY]Inside Abu Ghraib Pt.1 (Iraq prison camp, CBC) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9Wr8na6js&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZJ9Wr8na6js&has_verified=1]Police Brutality In America - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F09e-pI6eoA]Gang Violence In America - Intro - YouTube[/ame]

Of course the FPI are a big problem but hardly shows Muslims up as violent tribes.

Try this one from England.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkYzHvEH8w]English Defence League (EDL) 2010 Violence - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKBitUEBeq8]EDL March Rotherham - YouTube[/ame]

How many Muslims do you see?

You made your point, Fred. Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

 

[irosie91]

I got my information from a christian ----descendant of dutch settlers
in Indonesia In my own lifetime----I lived in a city in the USA---
-I walked from the train to my place of work even though I knew
that the murder rate wasvery high---an average of two murders
per week in an area of about one square mile.
Everything looked calm to me-----
so I walked from the train for about 1/2 mile to work------one
day I told a cop-----""-I walk down _______avenue every day --
--I know there is a lot of crime
there so why do I never see any cops?"" He answered
"YOU WALK????? I would not drive down that street in a patrol
car" !!!!!! Looks can be very deceiving saigon

 

[Saigon]

What gets posted:

But I don't say there isn't a problem here, there clearly is.

What gets heard:

You made your point, Fred. Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

 

[Hossfly]

What gets posted:

But I don't say there isn't a problem here, there clearly is.

What gets heard:

You made your point, Fred. Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

"It's a joke, son"
~~Foghorn Leghorn

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

I got that you were joking, but the fact is that Indofred has been very open and very honest about the shortcomings of Islam during the past week - and yet you still ignore each of those comments and demand that he say exactly what you want to hear.

I am sure that every non-Muslim (who comes into real contact with the Islamic world) and most Muslims will admit that the terrorism, the intolerance and mysoginy within Islam are frightening. Probably it is the worst offender in some areas.

But many of us also see those elements with Hindu, Buddhism and Christianity in the same regions, and thus refuse to condemn Islam in isolation.

The big question for me is why you apologise for those religions which indulge barbaric practices while focusing on Islam?

Wouldn't it make more sense to condemn all barbaric practices, regardless of who commits them?

 

[Indofred]

We know there is violence all over the world, but at this point in time, is it really that difficult for you and Fred to admit that most of the violence nowadays is coming from the Muslims in many different locations?

Most violence but you post one video of nutters in Indonesia.
If you want violence, take a look at the number of murders in America and compare that with the number here.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ_Vxoyu8zY]Inside Abu Ghraib Pt.1 (Iraq prison camp, CBC) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9Wr8na6js&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZJ9Wr8na6js&has_verified=1]Police Brutality In America - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F09e-pI6eoA]Gang Violence In America - Intro - YouTube[/ame]

Of course the FPI are a big problem but hardly shows Muslims up as violent tribes.

Try this one from England.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkYzHvEH8w]English Defence League (EDL) 2010 Violence - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKBitUEBeq8]EDL March Rotherham - YouTube[/ame]

How many Muslims do you see?

You made your point, Fred. Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

I assume you're deliberately trying to be obstructive.
You know full well, that isn't my point, simply that all groups have their violent, extremist morons.
I suspect you're familiar with that, assuming you own a mirror.

 

[Hossfly]

Most violence but you post one video of nutters in Indonesia.
If you want violence, take a look at the number of murders in America and compare that with the number here.

Inside Abu Ghraib Pt.1 (Iraq prison camp, CBC) - YouTube

Police Brutality In America - YouTube

Gang Violence In America - Intro - YouTube

Of course the FPI are a big problem but hardly shows Muslims up as violent tribes.

Try this one from England.

English Defence League (EDL) 2010 Violence - YouTube

EDL March Rotherham - YouTube

How many Muslims do you see?

You made your point, Fred. Islam truly is a peaceful religion.

I assume you're deliberately trying to be obstructive.
You know full well, that isn't my point, simply that all groups have their violent, extremist morons.
I suspect you're familiar with that, assuming you own a mirror.

Fred, you can post all the videos you like. We know there is violence all over the world. However, the truth is that even in Indonesia, just like other Muslim countries, people have not been allowed to practice their religion freely. If you research it, you will find that the only place the Ahmadi Muslims feel safe is in America (even with the violence here), and they certainly do not feel safe in Indonesia.
Indonesia: Ahmadiyya killings verdicts will not stem discrimination | Amnesty International

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

I got that you were joking, but the fact is that Indofred has been very open and very honest about the shortcomings of Islam during the past week - and yet you still ignore each of those comments and demand that he say exactly what you want to hear.

I am sure that every non-Muslim (who comes into real contact with the Islamic world) and most Muslims will admit that the terrorism, the intolerance and mysoginy within Islam are frightening. Probably it is the worst offender in some areas.

But many of us also see those elements with Hindu, Buddhism and Christianity in the same regions, and thus refuse to condemn Islam in isolation.

The big question for me is why you apologise for those religions which indulge barbaric practices while focusing on Islam?

Wouldn't it make more sense to condemn all barbaric practices, regardless of who commits them?

Everyone realizes that there is violence in every group under the sun, but the big question here is why people try to deny that the biggest threat in the world today is violence committed by Muslims.

 

[Indofred]

Nice to see some good people are around.

Muhammadiyah chairman at Jewish congress | The Jakarta Post

 

[Hossfly]

Nice to see some good people are around.

Muhammadiyah chairman at Jewish congress | The Jakarta Post

Yes, there are some good Muslims around even though so many other Muslims are harassing and killing them. Notice how he calls for the separation of the state and religion, which is surely to go over big in the Sunni majority countries -- right Fred? Tell us how your Sunni brethren look upon this sect of Muslims, Fred.

Ahmadiyya Muslim leaders calls for separation of religion, state - DailyBulletin.com

 

[irosie91]

There are many many people who INSIST that lots of people claim
"ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD" or "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS"
even some people who are so desperate that they insist
that even if people do not express this idea the ''BELIEVIE'''''' it

I never known any person like who says or believes that which
those many many people (including saigon and indofred) insist
they say or believe ---I have certainly never said it or believed
it
I have very clearly stated that SHARIAH is unmitigated filth and
there are hundreds of millions of people in the world who consider it
DIVINE---and a great and delightful system----I have met people
that deluded-----and some of THEM were, otherwise, decent people.
Lots of them do not even know how shariah impacts on non-muslims
and how utterly and brutally oppressive it is----and even promotes
genocide

 

[Saigon]

Everyone realizes that there is violence in every group under the sun, but the big question here is why people try to deny that the biggest threat in the world today is violence committed by Muslims.

In other words, the big question is why people do not blank out the stories that fill our newspapers, and rely on knee-jerk preconceptions about the world.

Put it this way - which conflict has cost the most human lives in the past 50 years?

How many times have you posted about it?