Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty (again • again).
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Annenberg Foundation is a great reference source of information. But it assumes, in the classroom, that you come to learn, as opposed to shopping for sound-bites that support your preconceived notions.

If the citizens of a country do not have sovereignty, who then? Foreign settlers with guns?
You don't make any sense.

(COMMENT)
.
Directly to the Questions

"First, the people are involved either directly or through their representatives in the making of a constitution." (Annenberg Foundation Website) This is not true in the many governments of the Middle East. And it is particularly true in the case of the Arab Palestinians governments of Fatah and The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS). While there was a moment in which it might have appeared to have been a Republic (or through their representatives), the sovereignty today, what little their is,

Q1: If the citizens of a country do not have sovereignty, who then?​

​

◈ There is no "universally accepted correct answer to this question. ​

​

✦ In the case of the Arab Palestinian Gaza Strip, the ultimate authority is HAMAS. ​

​

✦ In the case of the Arab Palestinian West Bank, it is Fatah.​

​

Q2: Foreign settlers with guns?​

​

◈ This alternative is a dependent answer. In "YOUR" case, you consider the Israelis to be both a domestic power and a foreign power.​

​

In the argument you push where "Palestine" is set by the post war boundaries (WWI) and the establishment is the Treaty of Lausanne, THEN the conflict (Israeli-Palestinian) is totally domestic, within a single country that you propose is there. (ie "Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.)​

​

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

​

✦ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​

✦ Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit.​

In the argument pushed (by some Arab Palestinian factions) where "Palestine," a State of Palestine based on pre-4 JUNE 1967 border with East Jerusalem as its Capital (prior to the Six Day War), it becomes an International Armed Conflict (IAC)(Common Article 2 to the Geneva Conventions). An IAC is generally considered as having included wars of national liberation, against colonial domination, alien occupation, and against the right to self-determination. But this is one-country (Palestine) against another country (Israeli). And thus, the State of Israel must be recognized as a country in it's own right. And that would rule-out "colonial domination." The conflict (called by the Arab Palestinians as a national liberation effort) has not ended and so such "Occupation" is a necessary criteria for the control of a hostile government.

✦ The Islamic Resistance Movement “Hamas” is a Palestinian Islamic national liberation and resistance movement.​

✦ Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war.​

.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

You seem to have a lot of problems with my people of the place concept.



If the citizens of a country do not have sovereignty, who then? Foreign settlers with guns?

You don't make any sense.

Speaking of not making sense, "citizens of a country...."

Ignoring facts while inventing your own facts (the "country of Pal'istan" being invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924), pretty much defines "not making sense".

 

[P F Tinmore]

"First, the people are involved either directly or through their representatives in the making of a constitution." (Annenberg Foundation Website)

Interesting.

In 1999 the Palestine Legislation Council (PLC, the elected parliament) formed a constitution. (Basic Law) This included things like the power of the government comes from the will of the people. All Palestinians are equal under the law without regard to race, religion, sex, etc.. religious freedom. It also included a bill of rights similar to but more comprehensive than that in the US.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Speaking of not making sense, "citizens of a country...."

Ignoring facts while inventing your own facts (the "country of Pal'istan" being invented by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924), pretty much defines "not making sense".

Read the Mandate document. Palestine was called a country many times. Israeli bullshit propaganda won't mention that.

 

[Hollie]

Read the Mandate document. Palestine was called a country many times. Israeli bullshit propaganda won't mention that.

Oh, OK. So you're claiming that "the mandate" invented the "country of Pal'istan"?

Not once in the document is there any citation for a "country of Pal'istan". It seems in your desperate desire to believe that such a "country" once existed, you will rewrite whatever documents you can find to make your "country of Pal'istan" come true.

Have you tried clicking the heels of your ruby red slippers three times?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty (again • again • again).
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Interesting.

In 1999 the Palestine Legislation Council (PLC, the elected parliament) formed a constitution. (Basic Law) This included things like the power of the government comes from the will of the people. All Palestinians are equal under the law without regard to race, religion, sex, etc.. religious freedom. It also included a bill of rights similar to but more comprehensive than that in the US.

(COMMENT)

I believe the Palestinian Parliament and the Basic Law are just pieces of paper that are largely compromised. The Hostile Arab Palestinian Groups (especially Fatah) will ignore, alter or amend them as necessary to shut their objectives.

Mahmoud Abbas was elected to office in 8 May 2005. It is not 2020. How many terms is that? Dictators tend to manipulate the law such that they can claim some legitimacy. National Emergency is one of the means.

Read the Mandate document. Palestine was called a country many times. Israeli bullshit propaganda won't mention that.

(COMMENT)
When the Mandate mentions "country" it is talking about the Government of Palestine. And the Hostile Arab Palestinians rejected all the offers of participation in the development of self-governing Institutions.

I suggest you read these carefully.

---

ITEM #1 (February 1948) an Excerpt.

MEMORANDUM “A”
LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE”​

Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
2. After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

3. Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time in a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948; is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held but so far as His Majesty’s Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues.

4. After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

---

ITEM #2

You have seen this all before. But you ignore it, Why? Because it does not conform to your agenda.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I believe the Palestinian Parliament and the Basic Law are just pieces of paper that are largely compromised. The Hostile Arab Palestinian Groups (especially Fatah) will ignore, alter or amend them as necessary to shut their objectives.

Again, interesting.

In March of 2007 the Palestinians created the model government in the ME. Armed with their constitution they created a government that included Hamas, Fatah, and smaller parties, It included Christians and women. All was approved by the PLC as the constitution required.

The US and Israel did not like that the Palestinian Authority had a Hamas PM. The US gave Fatah/Abbas $86m to overthrow the PA and install Fatah back in power. Remember that Fatah lost the elections to Hamas in 2006.

This coup was a success in the West Bank but failed in Gaza causing the split between the West Bank and Gaza. The US installed Fatah as the government in the Wast Bank.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In March of 2007 the Palestinians created the model government in the ME.

(COMMENT)
.
While this sounds impressive, it certain would be difficult to demonstrate. Any nation can write these lofty documents. The trick is to actually live by the concepts and make it work. The Ramallah Government and Gaza Government have a level of governance that is so bad that they did not even make to the World Corruption Perception Index (W-CPI).

The US is not a perfect govenment. In the G-20, America is somewhere in the middle. Having said that, the Congress has screwed-up so much that Chile and Bhutan fair better on the index ranking. Washington is really pitiful.

Having those lofty documents mean nothing if the government cannot live by them and still provide the infrastructure to sustain the nation. And this is where the Ramallah Government and Gaza Government fall down.
.

The US and Israel did not like that the Palestinian Authority had a Hamas PM. The US gave Fatah/Abbas $86m to overthrow the PA and install Fatah back in power. Remember that Fatah lost the elections to Hamas in 2006.

This coup was a success in the West Bank but failed in Gaza causing the split between the West Bank and Gaza. The US installed Fatah as the government in the Wast Bank.

(COMMENT)
.
In the first years of the 21st Century, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) were not pillars within the International Community. The PLO was marginally better and certainly more cooperative than HAMAS. Today, much of the International Community still consider the actions of HAMAS to be acts of terrorism. It is not uncommon to hear HAMAS Leaders make outrageous statement that do nothing but advocate for national, racial, and religious hatred which constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, and violence.

Even today, most terrorism, in the region, is politically motivated disgruntled factions that are intellectually incapable of following the civilized dispute resolution processes. But the hidden agenda is much greater than that. The Palestinian Factions find it more profitable to incite a continuation of the conflict, rather than adopt a reasonable conflict resolution process.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

While this sounds impressive, it certain would be difficult to demonstrate. Any nation can write these lofty documents. The trick is to actually live by the concepts and make it work. The Ramallah Government and Gaza Government have a level of governance that is so bad that they did not even make to the World Corruption Perception Index (W-CPI).

As you know, or should know, the US installs/props up dictators and despots all over the world. Palestine is no different. The government is rife with corruption. But it is not the Palestinian's government. It is a foreign imposed Bantustan government.

Starts@ 34:00


Injecting Hamas into the PA was a direct threat to the Bantustan system. Hamas would not play ball like Fatah. That is why Hamas won the elections.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The government is rife with corruption. But it is not the Palestinian's government. It is a foreign imposed Bantustan government.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians "allow" the Ramallah and Gaza Governments to exist. Each of these two governments is protected by Arab Palestinians (its own population). If the Palestinians (as a people) wanted to change the face of the government, all they have to do is decide that is what they want and invoke change. The only thing stopping change is the people themselves. They don't want change enough to make the effort.

This argument that the US props up the Ramallah Government is a political apparition. There is not a single US military element in the West Bank. The money, the power, the weapons are all in the hands of the Arab Palestinians. Again, they have had the tools for change the entire time. In fact, for two decades (1948-1967), the Arab Palestinians had the Arab League on their side (an external military force). There has been no foreign troops to set foot in Israel to participate in military operations opposing Arab Palestinian violence.

Even after the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip (2005), the Arab Palestinians continued the armed struggle for more than 15 years (the entire tenure of the Mahmoud Abbas Regime). The Arab Palestinians continue to pursue the organized use of subversion and violence in an attempt to seize and nullify, or challenge political control of Israel.

Injecting Hamas into the PA was a direct threat to the Bantustan system. Hamas would not play ball like Fatah. That is why Hamas won the elections.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS is a creation of the Arab Palestinians (a self inflicted political trauma). The Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”)(AKA: HAMAS) was a splinter group out of the Muslim Brotherhood. HAMAS was founded by an Arab Palestinian Spiritual Leader (Sheikh Ahmed Yassin) who wanted to insure the growth of Islam as the Arab Palestinians grew in strength. Originally Sheikh Yassin opposed the use of terrorism (a weapon of the weak) as the means to the end. However, the militant undercurrent within HAMAS change that view. The Sheikh did advocate "armed struggle" as a tool of HAMAS. The Sheikh endorsed the passage in the Covenant that professes: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

The continuation of the conflict was spurred-on by Arab Palestinians like Sheikh Yassin; but he was by no means the only prominent character and advocate in personal incitement to discrimination, hostility, and violence.

Yes, it can be said that the Israelis did, from time to time, aggravate the climate for conflict, it was the Arab Palestinian that wallows in the mud.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Even after the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip (2005), the Arab Palestinians continued the armed struggle for more than 15 years

What was the March of Return all about?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians "allow" the Ramallah and Gaza Governments to exist. Each of these two governments is protected by Arab Palestinians (its own population). If the Palestinians (as a people) wanted to change the face of the government, all they have to do is decide that is what they want and invoke change. The only thing stopping change is the people themselves. They don't want change enough to make the effort.

This argument that the US props up the Ramallah Government is a political apparition. There is not a single US military element in the West Bank. The money, the power, the weapons are all in the hands of the Arab Palestinians. Again, they have had the tools for change the entire time. In fact, for two decades (1948-1967), the Arab Palestinians had the Arab League on their side (an external military force). There has been no foreign troops to set foot in Israel to participate in military operations opposing Arab Palestinian violence.

Even after the Israelis unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip (2005), the Arab Palestinians continued the armed struggle for more than 15 years (the entire tenure of the Mahmoud Abbas Regime). The Arab Palestinians continue to pursue the organized use of subversion and violence in an attempt to seize and nullify, or challenge political control of Israel.


(COMMENT)

HAMAS is a creation of the Arab Palestinians (a self inflicted political trauma). The Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (“Islamic Resistance Movement”)(AKA: HAMAS) was a splinter group out of the Muslim Brotherhood. HAMAS was founded by an Arab Palestinian Spiritual Leader (Sheikh Ahmed Yassin) who wanted to insure the growth of Islam as the Arab Palestinians grew in strength. Originally Sheikh Yassin opposed the use of terrorism (a weapon of the weak) as the means to the end. However, the militant undercurrent within HAMAS change that view. The Sheikh did advocate "armed struggle" as a tool of HAMAS. The Sheikh endorsed the passage in the Covenant that professes: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

The continuation of the conflict was spurred-on by Arab Palestinians like Sheikh Yassin; but he was by no means the only prominent character and advocate in personal incitement to discrimination, hostility, and violence.

Yes, it can be said that the Israelis did, from time to time, aggravate the climate for conflict, it was the Arab Palestinian that wallows in the mud.

Most Respectfully,
R

You need to brush up on weaponized money.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What was the March of Return all about?

(COMMENT)
.
Well, this is was NOT about a "RIGHT" to Return (RoR). There is no universal RoR (see Posting #282). Each case must be evaluated on its own merit.

The the "Great March" for the RoR is a propaganda effort to place apolitical spotlight for the media on the Hostile Arab Palestinian claims:

◈ That (as the HoAP say: is inshrined) in the UN Resolution A/RES/194 (III) (Dec 1948) the RoR.​

​

✦ refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace​

​

※→ The Refugees specifically stated:​

• (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. (HAMAS Covenant 1988)
• • 21. Hamas affirms that the Oslo Accords and their addenda contravene the governing rules of international law in that they generate commitments that violate the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. Therefore, the Movement rejects these agreements and all that flows from them, such as the obligations that are detrimental to the interests of our people, especially security coordination (collaboration). (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)
  • 22. Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them. (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)
  • 23. Hamas stresses that transgression against the Palestinian people, usurping their land and banishing them from their homeland cannot be called peace. Any settlements reached on this basis will not lead to peace. Resistance and jihad for the liberation of Palestine will remain a legitimate right, a duty and an honour for all the sons and daughters of our people and our Ummah. (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)

The Great March was a Major Media Event which, in itself, was violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) of Israel.

※→ Article 12. CCPR​

1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. ​

2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own. ​

3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant. ​

4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​

※→ Article 20 CCPR​

​

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law. ​

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​

​

The Great March Media Event was an attempt to promote the use of force to violate of Israeli territorial integrity or political independence by a largely civilian mob providing cover for members of HAMAS. HAMAS used this civilian mob as a shield to launch incendiary devices.

1997 INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF TERRORIST CONVENTION

3. "Explosive or other lethal device" means:​

(a) An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage; or​

There is no way that I have the eloquence f a legal scholar to do justice in describing all the prohibitions that HAMAS was able to pull off without the International Community raising an eyebrow. But the refugees that the March would apply to is now 73 years of age. The Fact Book for Gaza shows that in 2020 it was estimated that 65 years and over: 2.68% of the population and that is approximately 52 thousand (male 27,248 / female 24,191). And they are not old enough be a refugee of the 1948 War for Independence.

Then there is the issue of the HoAP trying to use the event to nullify Israels Right to Self-Determination leading to the establishment of self rule and independence.

The answer to your simple little question is exceptionfllycomplex on many different political planes. But believe me when I say, that without regard to the name (The Great March for the RoR), it is not about the RoR. The Event is all about the increasing the level of Humanitarian support and the increase in donor nation contribution that enhance the personal wealth of certain leaders of HAMAS and associates.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

What was the March of Return all about?

It was about Hamas bussing children to a war zone they created with the presumption that children injured or killed in such a war zone could be used for propaganda purposes.

Nature has pre-programmed humans and animals alike with a survival instinct and an instinct to protect the young. It's a remarkable thing that pallys have overridden this with a willingness to specifically put their children in harms way.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


(COMMENT)
.
Well, this is was NOT about a "RIGHT" to Return (RoR). There is no universal RoR (see Posting #282). Each case must be evaluated on its own merit.

The the "Great March" for the RoR is a propaganda effort to place apolitical spotlight for the media on the Hostile Arab Palestinian claims:

◈ That (as the HoAP say: is inshrined) in the UN Resolution A/RES/194 (III) (Dec 1948) the RoR.​

​

✦ refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace​

​

※→ The Refugees specifically stated:​

• (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (A/AC.21/10) (1948)
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. (HAMAS Covenant 1988)
• • 21. Hamas affirms that the Oslo Accords and their addenda contravene the governing rules of international law in that they generate commitments that violate the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. Therefore, the Movement rejects these agreements and all that flows from them, such as the obligations that are detrimental to the interests of our people, especially security coordination (collaboration). (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)
  • 22. Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them. (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)
  • 23. Hamas stresses that transgression against the Palestinian people, usurping their land and banishing them from their homeland cannot be called peace. Any settlements reached on this basis will not lead to peace. Resistance and jihad for the liberation of Palestine will remain a legitimate right, a duty and an honour for all the sons and daughters of our people and our Ummah. (HAMAS General Principles and Policies) (2017)

The Great March was a Major Media Event which, in itself, was violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) of Israel.

※→ Article 12. CCPR​

1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. ​

2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own. ​

3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant. ​

4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​

※→ Article 20 CCPR​

​

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law. ​

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​

​

The Great March Media Event was an attempt to promote the use of force to violate of Israeli territorial integrity or political independence by a largely civilian mob providing cover for members of HAMAS. HAMAS used this civilian mob as a shield to launch incendiary devices.

1997 INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF TERRORIST CONVENTION

3. "Explosive or other lethal device" means:​

(a) An explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage; or​

There is no way that I have the eloquence f a legal scholar to do justice in describing all the prohibitions that HAMAS was able to pull off without the International Community raising an eyebrow. But the refugees that the March would apply to is now 73 years of age. The Fact Book for Gaza shows that in 2020 it was estimated that 65 years and over: 2.68% of the population and that is approximately 52 thousand (male 27,248 / female 24,191). And they are not old enough be a refugee of the 1948 War for Independence.

Then there is the issue of the HoAP trying to use the event to nullify Israels Right to Self-Determination leading to the establishment of self rule and independence.

The answer to your simple little question is exceptionfllycomplex on many different political planes. But believe me when I say, that without regard to the name (The Great March for the RoR), it is not about the RoR. The Event is all about the increasing the level of Humanitarian support and the increase in donor nation contribution that enhance the personal wealth of certain leaders of HAMAS and associates.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, you believe that taking land by force is legal?

Do you have a link for that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It was about Hamas bussing children to a war zone they created with the presumption that children injured or killed in such a war zone could be used for propaganda purposes.

Nature has pre-programmed humans and animals alike with a survival instinct and an instinct to protect the young. It's a remarkable thing that pallys have overridden this with a willingness to specifically put their children in harms way.

What harm? It was an unarmed protest.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are grasping for anything to justify the continuation of conflict for over 70 years. No matter what your original cause for action was, you cannot justify your aggravated acts of violence..

So, you believe that taking land by force is legal?

(COMMENT)
.
No one said that. Although subsequent to the Israeli action, the real nature f the Arab Palestinian was revealed.
'

What harm? It was an unarmed protest.

(COMMENT)
.
A mob of 30 thousand people is not an unarmed threat. HAMAS, in their usual cowardly fashion, use civilians as a screen and shield t threaten the integrity of the border. Then, when that did not work/, you used civilians to launch incendiary devices.
.
( ∑ )
.
No one said the transition would be easy. No one said the transition would be perfect. But what really set the character to the establishment of the State of Israel is found in how the Arab Palestinians setup a system that has tainted children for over three generations to hate Jews. It shows the true colors in the suicide bombing phase, and the martyr generation for people like Dalal al-Maghribi who killed unarmed men, women and children. The Hostile Arab Palestinian adopted a policy of "no honest negotiation."

The threat posed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian is real. And the risk is real.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

What harm? It was an unarmed protest.

Except for the arms brought by the Islamic terrorists.

Were you disappointed children weren't hurt? Thats why your heroes bussed them in.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: A Model Government
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are grasping for anything to justify the continuation of conflict for over 70 years. No matter what your original cause for action was, you cannot justify your aggravated acts of violence..


(COMMENT)
.
No one said that. Although subsequent to the Israeli action, the real nature f the Arab Palestinian was revealed.
'

(COMMENT)
.
A mob of 30 thousand people is not an unarmed threat. HAMAS, in their usual cowardly fashion, use civilians as a screen and shield t threaten the integrity of the border. Then, when that did not work/, you used civilians to launch incendiary devices.
.
( ∑ )
.
No one said the transition would be easy. No one said the transition would be perfect. But what really set the character to the establishment of the State of Israel is found in how the Arab Palestinians setup a system that has tainted children for over three generations to hate Jews. It shows the true colors in the suicide bombing phase, and the martyr generation for people like Dalal al-Maghribi who killed unarmed men, women and children. The Hostile Arab Palestinian adopted a policy of "no honest negotiation."

The threat posed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian is real. And the risk is real.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, you believe that taking land by force is legal?

You are ducking me question.