Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[Hollie]

The Treaty of Lausanne did not invent new states. Those states were already planned by the Allied Powers. The Treaty of Lausanne merely transferred the sovereignty from Turkey to the people of the new states.

What ''new states'' were planned?

 

[Hollie]

For those to lazy to look it up.

ART. 5.​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.

As so-called Palestinians held no sovereign territory, where was this ''palestinian territory''?

 

[P F Tinmore]

As so-called Palestinians held no sovereign territory,

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

For those to lazy to look it up.

ART. 5.​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.

That is why no territory was ever transferred to Israel.

 

[Hollie]

Link?

Yes, link.

You should be able to provide a link identifying sovereign territory maintained by the Pallys (the Arabs-Moslems who, as you know, occupied lands controlled by the Ottoman Turks.

As we know, no such territory soverjgn to the Arab-Moslem occupiers existed.

Link?

 

[Hollie]

That is why no territory was ever transferred to Israel.

What transfer was required?

Link?

 

[Hollie]

The Treaty of Lausanne did not invent new states. Those states were already planned by the Allied Powers. The Treaty of Lausanne merely transferred the sovereignty from Turkey to the people of the new states.

I still can't find the names or locations of those pre-planned "new states."

 

[P F Tinmore]

I still can't find the names or locations of those pre-planned "new states."

 

[Hollie]

Good answer.

 

[Hollie]

That is why no territory was ever transferred to Israel.

Was territory transferred to the Arabs-Moslems?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yes, link.

You should be able to provide a link identifying sovereign territory maintained by the Pallys (the Arabs-Moslems who, as you know, occupied lands controlled by the Ottoman Turks.

As we know, no such territory soverjgn to the Arab-Moslem occupiers existed.

Link?

The people of a defined territory are the sovereigns of that territory. This is not handed out be world powers. This is an inherent quality of international law. It is because it is.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Was territory transferred to the Arabs-Moslems?

The territory was transferred to Palestine. Religion and ethnicity were irrelevant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Good answer.

I am trying not to go over your head.

 

[Hollie]

I am trying not to go over your head.

You can't find a youtube video.

 

[Hollie]

The territory was transferred to Palestine. Religion and ethnicity were irrelevant.

What territory was transferred?

 

[Hollie]

It is because it is.

"... because I say so"

That may work well at your madrassah but is hardly relevant.

Time to trot out your Zebra again?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation and Political Entropy
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No Palestinian land was ceded to Transjordan. Transjordan was established in 1922 and the land was ceded to Transjordan directly from Turkey in 1924.

(COMMENT)

There was no obligation made to a Arab-Palestineian Entity under any formal document until sometime after 1948. The Palestinians were not a party to any treaty or convention During the establishment of the First Wold War Supreme Council of the Allied Powers. Just to be clear, The Government of Palestine ( = The British Government). During the tenure of the under which the terrify was subject to the Mandate for Palestine, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials. The Anglo-Transjordan Treaty "stipulated on 15 May 1923 that Transjordan would be The Government of Palestine (UK) prepared for independence under the general supervision of the British high commissioner in Jerusalem, and recognized Emir Abdullah as head of state."

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, "ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan."

---

(COUNTERPOINT)

ARTICLE 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne does not distribute any territory - anywhere relative to the territory former the administration of the Mandate (1922). It is the delineation and renouncement of territory outside the Turkish Republic. Article 30 insure that there will be no one without a nationality (ie no refugees). Nowhere in the Treaty allows for the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic to make final disposition of any territory.​

​

The Treaty is an Instrument, that serves to protect ALL the parties that are considered to have agreed to it. The instrument does not recognize the ascension of the Palestinians recognize as an entity/party to the agreement.​

---

Preamble & Paragraph 2, UK-TransJordan Treaty 1946.​

Considering that the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have formally declared in the General Assembly of the United Nations Organisation that they intend to recognise the status of Trans-Jordan as a sovereign independent State; and

ARTICLE 1. UK-TransJordan Treaty 1946.​

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.
There shall be perpetual peace and friendship between His Majesty The King and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan.

BTW, the mandate was forbiden from ceding Palestinian land to any foreign entity. I don't remember which article it was.

(COMMENT)

That does not prevent the Allied Powers from taking action. It only says the "Mandatory" cannot cede to a foreign. That is not what happened. The Government of Palestine particianed a portion of the Territory (set-aside) for independence.

---

Article 5
Mandate For Palestine​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation and Political Entropy
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(COMMENT)

There was no obligation made to a Arab-Palestineian Entity under any formal document until sometime after 1948. The Palestinians were not a party to any treaty or convention During the establishment of the First Wold War Supreme Council of the Allied Powers. Just to be clear, The Government of Palestine ( = The British Government). During the tenure of the under which the terrify was subject to the Mandate for Palestine, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials. The Anglo-Transjordan Treaty "stipulated on 15 May 1923 that Transjordan would be The Government of Palestine (UK) prepared for independence under the general supervision of the British high commissioner in Jerusalem, and recognized Emir Abdullah as head of state."

On March 22, 1946, Abdullah negotiated a new Anglo-Transjordanian treaty, "ending the British mandate and gaining full independence for Transjordan."

---

(COUNTERPOINT)

ARTICLE 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne does not distribute any territory - anywhere relative to the territory former the administration of the Mandate (1922). It is the delineation and renouncement of territory outside the Turkish Republic. Article 30 insure that there will be no one without a nationality (ie no refugees). Nowhere in the Treaty allows for the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic to make final disposition of any territory.​

​

The Treaty is an Instrument, that serves to protect ALL the parties that are considered to have agreed to it. The instrument does not recognize the ascension of the Palestinians recognize as an entity/party to the agreement.​

---

Preamble & Paragraph 2, UK-TransJordan Treaty 1946.​

Considering that the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have formally declared in the General Assembly of the United Nations Organisation that they intend to recognise the status of Trans-Jordan as a sovereign independent State; and

ARTICLE 1. UK-TransJordan Treaty 1946.​

His Majesty The King recognises Trans-Jordan as a fully independent State and His Highness The Amir as the sovereign thereof.
There shall be perpetual peace and friendship between His Majesty The King and His Highness The Amir of Trans-Jordan.


(COMMENT)

That does not prevent the Allied Powers from taking action. It only says the "Mandatory" cannot cede to a foreign. That is not what happened. The Government of Palestine particianed a portion of the Territory (set-aside) for independence.

---

Article 5
Mandate For Palestine​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

.

Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line is that the people of the place hold the sovereignty. The Palestinians are the people and Palestine is the place. Nobody else has any authority there. Once the Treaty of Lausanne was ratified, Palestine's borders were closed to foreign interference..

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty (again).
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OPENING: The reality is, that this concept - people of the place hold the sovereignty → is not universally true, and certainly has not been a concept throughout time. In fact, people holding the Right to Self-Determination (and there by sovereignty) is relatively new .

​

self-determination and secession One of the principal difficulties in relation to the exercise of the right of self-determination is in the identifi cation of what is to be regarded as a people for the purpose of exercising the right to self-determination. The right clearly applies to colonial peoples, for which it was originally intended. In such cases, the right of self-determination has been used to bring about the independence of colonies and trust territories since the 1960s. However, it would appear that the right of self-determination may not be applicable once a colony or trust territory has achieved independence.
SOURCE: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law 3ed Copyright ˝ 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. pp 551

The bottom line is that the people of the place hold the sovereignty. The Palestinians are the people and Palestine is the place. Nobody else has any authority there. Once the Treaty of Lausanne was ratified, Palestine's borders were closed to foreign interference..

(COMMENT)
.
The Arab Palestinian has been entangled in these various concepts (principal difficulties in relation to the exercise of the right of self-determination) for over a half century. Like kids fighting over a the use of a swing or sandbox, the Arab Palestinians are chalk full of sound-bites just like the one you use here.

The Border of Palestine, between 1922 →1948, was not frozen in time. In point of fact, the territory to which the Mandate applied was defined by the Allied Powers (San Remo 1920), "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them." The Allied Powers could have changed the boundaries at any time. They had the power to redefine the bounders, but the Arab Palestinians, through conflict.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Sovereignty (again).
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OPENING: The reality is, that this concept - people of the place hold the sovereignty → is not universally true, and certainly has not been a concept throughout time. In fact, people holding the Right to Self-Determination (and there by sovereignty) is relatively new .

​

​

(COMMENT)
.
The Arab Palestinian has been entangled in these various concepts (principal difficulties in relation to the exercise of the right of self-determination) for over a half century. Like kids fighting over a the use of a swing or sandbox, the Arab Palestinians are chalk full of sound-bites just like the one you use here.

The Border of Palestine, between 1922 →1948, was not frozen in time. In point of fact, the territory to which the Mandate applied was defined by the Allied Powers (San Remo 1920), "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them." The Allied Powers could have changed the boundaries at any time. They had the power to redefine the bounders, but the Arab Palestinians, through conflict.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem to have a lot of problems with my people of the place concept.

Popular sovereignty is government based on consent of the people. The government’s source of authority is the people, and its power is not legitimate if it disregards the will of the people. Government established by free choice of the people is expected to serve the people, who have sovereignty, or supreme power.

Popular Sovereignty

Popular sovereignty is government based on consent of the people. The government’s source of authority is the people, and its power is not legitimate if it disregards the will of the people. Government established by

www.annenbergclassroom.org

If the citizens of a country do not have sovereignty, who then? Foreign settlers with guns?

You don't make any sense.