"Palestinian" PM Making It Crystal Clear

[Annie]

Kinda hard to blame the joos for this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/ts_nm/palestinians_hamas_dc

Palestinian PM: Hamas will never recognize Israel

By Nidal al-Mughrabi2 hours, 1 minute ago

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said on Monday the Islamist militant group Hamas would never recognize Israel.

Haniyeh, a Hamas leader, said in an interview from Gaza with Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah's al-Manar television: "Hamas will never recognize the legitimacy of the occupation (Israel)."

"Hamas will never show flexibility over the issue of recognizing the legitimacy of the occupation," he added.

Hamas took control of the Palestinian government last March after winning parliamentary elections a year ago.

The United States and its allies imposed sanctions on the Hamas-led government to pressure it to recognize Israel, renounce violence and abide by interim deals. The group has refused to abide by these demands.

Haniyeh said there had been "an encouraging start" to efforts aimed at forming a Palestinian national unity government with rival movement Fatah.

"I am full of hope that these efforts could succeed and I hope that the national unity government could see the light in the nearest time possible if the intentions were honest," he said...

 

[Gunny]

Kinda hard to blame the joos for this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/ts_nm/palestinians_hamas_dc

Pretty cut-n-dried. Hamas is a terrorist organization. The Arabs of Palestine voted this known terrorist organization into power as their government.

I guess treating Palestine as a terror-state would be out of the question?

 

[Gurdari]

Any method used to determine if a government of group are 'terrorists' should be applied evenly to all. I'm interested to hear any criteria that leaves the US, Russia, Britain, Israel off the list.

Threatening Nuclear action against another nation is also terrorism - even if that other nation is hated Iran.

 

[theHawk]

Any method used to determine if a government of group are 'terrorists' should be applied evenly to all. I'm interested to hear any criteria that leaves the US, Russia, Britain, Israel off the list.

Threatening Nuclear action against another nation is also terrorism - even if that other nation is hated Iran.

Terrorists are people who blow up innocent men, woman and children on purpose. Do Americans, Russians, Brits and Israelis go around strapping exploves to their chests and blowing themselves up when they are in a group of women and children? Do we embrace these ideas and call such pepole martyrs?

 

[Gurdari]

Terrorists are people who blow up innocent men, woman and children on purpose. Do Americans, Russians, Brits and Israelis go around strapping exploves to their chests and blowing themselves up when they are in a group of women and children? Do we embrace these ideas and call such pepole martyrs?

Innocent Iraqis and Afghans and Nicarauguans count too, right?

No we don't use explosives strapped to our chests, correct. We drop cluster bombs, white phosphorous, fire missiles, deprive medical aid,and other far more lethal tools. For an obvious example look at the peace loving Iraeli body count against the hostile leanese or palestinian one... about 10 arabs for every jew... we use our advanced technology, that doesn't excuse the brutality.
And yes, we do embrace these ideas - just listen to how we discuss conflict.
We are defending, liberating, protecting while we destroy, maim,etc. Hypocrisy AND lethal force. If we cared about law and democracy, we wouldn't have murdered so many innocent non-combatants while we were supposedly protecting peace.

 

[maineman]

Terrorists are people who blow up innocent men, woman and children on purpose. Do Americans, Russians, Brits and Israelis go around strapping exploves to their chests and blowing themselves up when they are in a group of women and children? Do we embrace these ideas and call such pepole martyrs?

It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can make this incredibly moral distinction between killing people with bombs in cars or strapped to bodies versus dropping ordinance from an aircraft in a violent display designed to "shock and awe"... Did we really think that we were going to shock and awe the residents of a densely populated city like baghdad by dropping tons of ordinance from the sky but not actually KILL anyone?


Regarding the opening thread in this post.... I think that Hamas was able to win the election in the palestinian territories, not by stressing their terrorist inclinations, but by doing good "ward heeler" work - by promising improvements to infrastructure and schools.... but regardless, the palestinian people will need to move away from that hard-line organization if they wish to be included in any sort of meaningful dialog.

 

[90K]

What is the difference in about 50 pounds of C-4 strapped to a person or 1,000 pounds of nitrogen and diesel fuel loaded in a car or truck using a wireless detonator or just a pushbutton switch to go high order in the middle of a market at its busiest time of the day? And dropping a bunker buster 2,000 pound laser guided munitions on a specific target? Well for one it is the agenda of terrorist is to use fear. Our ordnance was used to kill Saddams family and to disrupt his government and to rid Afghanistan of Taliban and osama and it worked very well. Now when a government builds homes next to high level targets that is called human shields those homes were flattened and innocent folks lost life.
So I don't agree with this pro-middle eastern defense that they all are innocent folks just living life and never hurt anyone. And if you have facts to prove us all wrong link us to the truth.

 

[maineman]

What is the difference in about 50 pounds of C-4 strapped to a person or 1,000 pounds of nitrogen and diesel fuel loaded in a car or truck using a wireless detonator or just a pushbutton switch to go high order in the middle of a market at its busiest time of the day? And dropping a bunker buster 2,000 pound laser guided munitions on a specific target? Well for one it is the agenda of terrorist is to use fear.

and you think that delivering "shock and awe" on the densely populated urban center of Baghdad wasn't meant to scare anyone or kill anyone?

 

[maineman]

Our ordnance was used to kill Saddams family and to disrupt his government and to rid Afghanistan of Taliban and osama and it worked very well.

oh really? How can you possibly say that? You don't have a CLUE where Osama is and the Taliban are in resurgence.

 

[90K]

oh really? How can you possibly say that? You don't have a CLUE where Osama is and the Taliban are in resurgence.

That is because our politicians caved into pressure of the liberal front wouldn't allow the military to do it's job.
who side are you on anyway?
If you live in the US and are willing to except the risk of terrorism then more power to ya, but I don't except that kind of risk. Long before the CIA or any other organzation went into the middle east there goals were set to destroy the west.

 

[90K]

And your comments about shock and awe really don't faze me because for the last 20 plus years I've tested ordnance and we've narrowed down the frag range considerably so it doesn't work for me to feel guilt about making a powerful explosives that will kill those pesky terrorist and dictators!

 

[maineman]

That is because our politicians caved into pressure of the liberal front wouldn't allow the military to do it's job.
who side are you on anyway?
If you live in the US and are willing to except the risk of terrorism then more power to ya, but I don't except that kind of risk. Long before the CIA or any other organzation went into the middle east there goals were set to destroy the west.

no liberals were telling Bush to outsource the job of clearing out Tora Bora to the Afghan warlords. That is patently ridiculous to blame that on liberals....do you just de facto blame everything on liberals, by the way?

And you are wrong about the goals of wahabbism...they are not and were not to destroy the west but to eliminate western influence from the islamic world.

And you would be well advised to not question my loyalty or patriotism going forward.

 

[maineman]

And your comments about shock and awe really don't faze me because for the last 20 plus years I've tested ordnance and we've narrowed down the frag range considerably so it doesn't work for me to feel guilt about making a powerful explosives that will kill those pesky terrorist and dictators!

so you really think that shock and awe was just a big light show ...like a horror movie? Designed to frighten the city of Baghdad but not actually kill anyone? whatever.

 

[90K]

And you are wrong about the goals of wahabbism...they are not and were not to destroy the west but to eliminate western influence from the islamic world.

And you would be well advised to not question my loyalty or patriotism going forward.[/QUOTE]

Then way are these muzzies coming to our country? for a better life my butt. Some maybe but sleeper cells in this country spell out another agenda.

So what of your patriotism! You are on there side playing word games, no facts so far have you proven to me about this topic. Are you wrong? I won't go there yet, but you make a big stink over treatment of the arabs. They have been on everyone shit list for thousands of years. Do I hate them? No I don't like the way the anti-west agenda is working. Was Saddam a bad man? To the west he was, to you he might have been a saint. He's dead and the was mission complete!

 

[90K]

so you really think that shock and awe was just a big light show ...like a horror movie? Designed to frighten the city of Baghdad but not actually kill anyone? whatever.

I didn't say that.....I said our methods of precision and ability was really good and very effective.
Just like your little wind up terrorist in explosive laden vest are! The light show and ability to hurt many innocent people caught in the middle of a hate war with the same skin color.

 

[glockmail]

no liberals were telling Bush to outsource the job of clearing out Tora Bora to the Afghan warlords. That is patently ridiculous to blame that on liberals....do you just de facto blame everything on liberals, by the way?
....

Funny how you want to outsource the war in Iraq but not the Afgan one.

 

[glockmail]

so you really think that shock and awe was just a big light show ...like a horror movie? Designed to frighten the city of Baghdad but not actually kill anyone? whatever.

Actually there were specific MILITARY SIGNIFICANT targets.

 

[glockmail]

Any method used to determine if a government of group are 'terrorists' should be applied evenly to all. I'm interested to hear any criteria that leaves the US, Russia, Britain, Israel off the list.

Threatening Nuclear action against another nation is also terrorism - even if that other nation is hated Iran.

Terrorists go after soft civilian targets. We good guys go after MILITARILY SIGNIFICANT ones.

 

[90K]

Terrorists go after soft civilian targets. We good guys go after MILITARILY SIGNIFICANT ones.

Say that again!

 

[maineman]

And you are wrong about the goals of wahabbism...they are not and were not to destroy the west but to eliminate western influence from the islamic world.

And you would be well advised to not question my loyalty or patriotism going forward.

Then way are these muzzies coming to our country? for a better life my butt. Some maybe but sleeper cells in this country spell out another agenda.

So what of your patriotism! You are on there side playing word games, no facts so far have you proven to me about this topic. Are you wrong? I won't go there yet, but you make a big stink over treatment of the arabs. They have been on everyone shit list for thousands of years. Do I hate them? No I don't like the way the anti-west agenda is working. Was Saddam a bad man? To the west he was, to you he might have been a saint. He's dead and the was mission complete!

you don't think living in America offers everyone a better life than they have in third world countries? Don't you think that peaceful law abiding muslims are as attracted by our freedoms - most prominently our freedom of religion - as anyone else on the earth?

I am on America's side. I just so happen to believe that our president is leading us over a cliff. I certainly had no affection or respect for Saddam whatsoever and I am insulted by your tone that would suggest otherwise. Please alter it going forward. Saddam was a bad man...but the world is full of bad men and, like it or not, America has used bad men in other parts of the globe to do our bidding for many years. The fact of the matter isL Saddam, as big of a shit as he was, was better at keeping islamic extremists out of his country than we are, was better at keeping sunnis and shiites from slaughtering one another than we are, and better at keeping a lid on Iranian hegemony than we are. We would have been MUCH better off in this war on Islamic extremism to leave Saddam in place and concentrate instead on seeking out and destroying the people who attacked us.