Palestine Today

[USAF 2023]

It’s a Good Way to get Shot. Hope they keep it up

 

[P F Tinmore]

Wall of Shame - Documentary Video on Apartheid in Palestine

 

[USAF 2023]

Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia

Israel " occupied" E. Jerusalem and illegally annexed the City? Notice you didn't mention it was after the 67 War the Arabs initiated. Do you find anything wrong with the way the Jews were treated? Of course not. Do us all a big favor; Keep Posting

 

[USAF 2023]

Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

U.S. condemns Palestinian claim that Western Wall 'isn't Jewish'

tps://israelunwired.com/anti-israel-rally-at-times-square-in-new-york-with-horrific-idiotic-chants/



CHECKMATE! Your turn next,

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this video you have posted is quite dated. It documents the Bir Nabala - West Bank Barrier Incident; disputed territory.

(COMMENT)

The Israeli Security Barrier is a physical security measure taken to:

※ Protect Citizens of Israel

※ Defend the Sovereign integrity of Israel

※ Prevent the infiltration Palestinians as a deterrence against terrorist attacks.​

The Security Barrier construction began in late 2000 (August - September time frame). It is not really, an Armistice Line (Green Line) Barrier. The Green Line was dissolved by agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved." [Article XII Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement (1949)] The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on 26 October, 1994 and established an International Border Without Prejudice to the Arabs of Palestine.

The claim that the Security Barrier, in certain stretches of its construction, breached the Green Line and cut into Palestinian Territory. It did not. To this day, the State of Palestine, does not technically delineate its boundaries, nor demonstrates any sovereign control over a specific territory. Gaza, for all intent and purposes, is a territory controlled by a designated terrorist organization by the EU, the British Commonwealth, and America. The Palestinian Authority only exercises full control over Area "A" (Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip).

Many times I have heard the argument that this or that is in "Palestinian Territory." I would like to know → "What is Palestinian Territory?" When did they establish sovereign control?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[USAF 2023]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

You don’t honestly expect to receive an answer, do you? Just consider the source and play with it

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I have always been a bit confused on this matter of Occupation as it applies to "Jerusalem."

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
103. H.Con.Res.352 — 98th Congress (1983-1984) A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of the Congress that the United States Embassy in Israel should be located in the city of Jerusalem. Sponsor: Rep. Lantos, Tom [D-CA-11] (Introduced 09/06/1984) Cosponsors: (1) Committees: House - Foreign Affairs Latest Action: House - 10/02/1984 Forwarded by Subcommittee to Full Committee. (All Actions)

Jerusalem → illegally annexed the City?

(COMMENT)

WHO did Israel take Jerusalem from?

P.L. 104-45: A SummaryThe most significant legislation dealing with Jerusalem is P.L. 104-45, which became law on November 8, 1995, without the President’s signature.--Section 3(a) states that it is the policy of the United States that Jerusalem should be undivided with protection for religious and ethnic rights, that Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital, and that the U.S. embassy should be moved to Jerusalem by 31 May 1999.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I have always been a bit confused on this matter of Occupation as it applies to "Jerusalem."

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
103. H.Con.Res.352 — 98th Congress (1983-1984) A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of the Congress that the United States Embassy in Israel should be located in the city of Jerusalem. Sponsor: Rep. Lantos, Tom [D-CA-11] (Introduced 09/06/1984) Cosponsors: (1) Committees: House - Foreign Affairs Latest Action: House - 10/02/1984 Forwarded by Subcommittee to Full Committee. (All Actions)

Jerusalem → illegally annexed the City?

(COMMENT)

WHO did Israel take Jerusalem from?

P.L. 104-45: A SummaryThe most significant legislation dealing with Jerusalem is P.L. 104-45, which became law on November 8, 1995, without the President’s signature.--Section 3(a) states that it is the policy of the United States that Jerusalem should be undivided with protection for religious and ethnic rights, that Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital, and that the U.S. embassy should be moved to Jerusalem by 31 May 1999.​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but the US is not the arbiter of foreign land or international borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this video you have posted is quite dated. It documents the Bir Nabala - West Bank Barrier Incident; disputed territory.

View attachment 266037 View attachment 266038

(COMMENT)

The Israeli Security Barrier is a physical security measure taken to:

※ Protect Citizens of Israel

※ Defend the Sovereign integrity of Israel

※ Prevent the infiltration Palestinians as a deterrence against terrorist attacks.​

The Security Barrier construction began in late 2000 (August - September time frame). It is not really, an Armistice Line (Green Line) Barrier. The Green Line was dissolved by agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved." [Article XII Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement (1949)] The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on 26 October, 1994 and established an International Border Without Prejudice to the Arabs of Palestine.

The claim that the Security Barrier, in certain stretches of its construction, breached the Green Line and cut into Palestinian Territory. It did not. To this day, the State of Palestine, does not technically delineate its boundaries, nor demonstrates any sovereign control over a specific territory. Gaza, for all intent and purposes, is a territory controlled by a designated terrorist organization by the EU, the British Commonwealth, and America. The Palestinian Authority only exercises full control over Area "A" (Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip).

Many times I have heard the argument that this or that is in "Palestinian Territory." I would like to know → "What is Palestinian Territory?" When did they establish sovereign control?

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestinian territory and international borders were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.

You keep confusing military occupation with the right to sovereignty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Finally Released: Censored Al Jazeera Documentary Exposes Israel-Backed Attacks on US Activists

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are absolutely correct.

OK, but the US is not the arbiter of foreign land or international borders.

(COMMENT)

Two major points:

◈ While it is immediately obvious to the casual observer that in the real world (reality), as previously stated in Posting #10866 that the sovereign control of the State of Israel is quite clear and cannot be mistaken. Nor is Israel sovereign territory answerable to any other authority. The same cannot be said for the Arabs of the West Bank, other than Area "A." And the question of who controls the Gaza Strip is up for debate (HAMAS vs Palestinian Authority). And, there is still a further question about the legitimatecy of the HAMAS governing body and the Palestinian Authority.

◈ No US decision on the matter required any other country or people to recognize Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital. And by the same token, no other country or people have the right to impose their decision on America.​

Having said that, will the real government, meeting the criteria under the Rights and Duties of a Government, PLEASE stand up!

If America wants to recognize Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel and to move the American Embassy to Jerusalem, THEN, so be it. No country has the ability to impose, intimidate or coerce the American people into making a decision through the threat or use of force. That is especially true of people, like the Arab Palestinians that have supported Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters in:

◈ 23 Jul 1968 - The hijacking of El Al Flight 426 from Rome to Israel,
◈ 26 Dec 1968 - Gunmen opened fire on El Al Flight 253 in Athens enroute to New York,
◈ 18 Feb 1969 - An attack on El Al Flight 432 passengers jet at Zürich,
◈ 29 Aug 1969 - The hijacking of TWA Flight 840 from Los Angeles to Damascus,
◈ 10 February 1970 - Attack on a bus containing El Al passengers at Munich airport,
◈ 30 May 1972 - Attack on Terminal Ben Gurion International Airport,
◈ 13 Oct 1977 - Hijacking Lufthansa Flight 181, Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt,
◈ 12 Apr 1984 - Bus hijacked Tel Aviv to Damascus,
◈ 1 Jun 2001 - Dolphinarium in Tel Aviv,
◈ 9 Aug 2001 - Sbarro's Pizzeria in Jerusalem,
◈ 2 Dec 2001 - Haifa bus,
◈ 27 Mar 2002 - Park Hotel
◈ 31 Mar 2002 - Matza Restaurant in Haifa,
◈ 7 May 2002 - Rishon Letzion Hall,
◈ 18 Jun 2002 - #32 bus from Gilo, Jerusalem,
◈ 5 Mar, 2003 - #37 bus in Haifa,
◈ 11 Jun 11, 2003 - #14 bus, Jerusalem,
◈ 19 Aug 2003 - #2 bus from Western Wall,​

​

Arab Palestinians are a prominent category culture of people that have consistently chosen to run up against Rule #2 • Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) → prohibiting acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited. (Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I)(Article 13(2) of Additional Protocol II)

What is even more striking that, no matter how many times the question is raised, the Arab Palestinians still argue that they have some special exemption under the law that allows them to target the civilian population as exemplified above.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is 100% wrong.

Palestinian territory and international borders were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.

You keep confusing military occupation with the right to sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

The Armistice Agreements of 1949 were "temporary" and only in effect and in force until peace settlements were agreed upon.

The Armistice Agreements of 1949 did not establish international borders. This is particularly true of the Treaties that impact the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

I'm not confusing "occupation" with "sovereignty" at all.

sovereignty ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished
from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.
Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of
supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international
relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a
State]. Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international
order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which
have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal
attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless. Actually, such efforts
appear to minimize unduly the fundamental character of the principle of legal sovereignty
within the realm of international law. The rules underlying this principle derive their importance
from the basic fact that “almost all international relations are bound up” with the
independence of States. Thus, the principle of sovereignty in general, and that of territorial
sovereignty in particular remains of necessity the “point of departure in settling most questions
that concern international relations” [ Island of Palmas Case ( 1928 ) 2 R.I.A.A. 829 at
839]’: Schwarzenberger , International Law (3rd ed.), 114–115. Sovereignty is not absolute
in the sense of permitting a State to act as it will regardless of international law. ‘We can
no longer regard sovereignty as an absolute and individual right of every State, as used
to be the case under the old law founded on the individualist regime, according to which
States were only bound by the rules which they had accepted. Today, owing to social
interdependence and to the predominance of general interest, the states are bound by many
rules which have not been ordered by their will’: Separate Opinion of Judge Alvarez in
Corfu Channel Case 1949 I.C.J. Rep 39 at 43. See also Barker , International Law and
International Relations ( 2000 ), 44: ‘The extent to which states can ever be said to have
been endowed with external sovereignty, which placed them above the law, is certainly
debatable. However, in modern day international relations where states interact with one
another on a daily basis, not only at the governmental level but also at all possible levels of
interaction, any claim of absolute sovereignty becomes impossible. As regards the impact
of international law on the internal sovereignty of states . . . insofar as international law
does exist and states accept that it does exist . . . the existence of the internal sovereignty of
states stands not as an obstacle to international law but as a mechanism providing for the
distribution of power in the international relations of states.’ See I Oppenheim 123–126 ;
Verzijl , International Law in Historical Perspective ( 1968 ), Vol. 1, 256–292; Korowicz ,
Introduction to International Law ( 1959 ), Chaps. 1–6.

It cannot be the case that IsraelOccupied any territory of the State of Palestine. The State of Palestine cannot demonstrate that it was even once, a party to a conflict with Israel, or that Israel ever controlled any territory of the State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

Every time I get serious everyone else starts dancing.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).

 

[P F Tinmore]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).

But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

Every time I get serious everyone else starts dancing.

Nope. Impossible to get serious when you act like a child and refuse to state why you feel so passionately about the issue.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.

Moral imperative.

You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.

My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).

But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.

It’s a start. What is your dog in the fight vs Israel. Why aren’t your for example posting about the Sudan or Lybia or Turkey?