Pain lingers for lesbian couple denied in Sweet Cakes case

[Katzndogz]

Whether gay people have done anything wrong is none of my business. The Bible is quite clear on judgments. Don't.

Christians aren't supposed to use Leviticus to judge others but to judge themselves.

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

Oh you poor thing.

 

[bodecea]

Well, isn't this the thing here? We're talking about shop owners being able to exclude. If gay people, black people etc get excluded, then there needs to be other shops. In many areas in the US there isn't enough room for one shop.

So if the only shop in the area that can survive decides to ban gay people, or a religious area like the deep south all the shops decide to ban gay people, then what?

There were multiple other bakers in that area that wanted the gays business. These gays just were interested in one thing .... To make a headline and hurt these Christians.

It's been quite clear that the other bakers who offered were direct competitors with sweet cakes and Their main competitor is the one who ginned up a media firestorm along with these gays.

Maybe there were. This isn't the point.

Firstly there are laws, and they're there for a reason. Some places have multiple bakeries, some places don't. You can't have one law for places with multiple bakeries and one law for places with just one.

So the law is that you can't discriminate on the basis of who you have sex with. That's the law, it's there for many reasons, and these people broke that law and they got their ass handed to them in court.

So I just used this real life example to make my point that these "discrimmination" laws aren't necessary in today's america and you just ignore that point?

There is no need for the government to kill that business. When any business stops taking customers they risk losing their business in the long run. The market will weed out these businesses. Government doesn't need to kill people's livelihoods

Problem is that back in the day this didn't happen, did it? Bus companies didn't go out of business because blacks had to sit at the back. Diners didn't go out of business for discriminating against blacks.

In fact this bakery is probably doing better for the all the free advertising they're getting and all the bigoted Christians in the area are flocking to their hidden away bakery.

That's why govt is needed. To stop this ridiculousness.

It's amazing you speak on this subject when you have no idea what's going on with sweet cakes. They closed and now the family is apart because the husband had to go back to driving a semi truck long haul to make ends meet and pay the 135k fine.

Well, I'm sure they are quite honored to be sort of martyrs for their god.

 

[bodecea]

Whether gay people have done anything wrong is none of my business. The Bible is quite clear on judgments. Don't.

Christians aren't supposed to use Leviticus to judge others but to judge themselves.

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

You've met Tipsy, I see.....very good reason for her name. * hint *hint

There IS nothing in their bible about gay weddings....she knows that...that's why she's dodging answering.

 

[indago]

Whether gay people have done anything wrong is none of my business. The Bible is quite clear on judgments. Don't.

Christians aren't supposed to use Leviticus to judge others but to judge themselves.

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

Oh you poor thing.

In what way?

 

[Katzndogz]

Whether gay people have done anything wrong is none of my business. The Bible is quite clear on judgments. Don't.

Christians aren't supposed to use Leviticus to judge others but to judge themselves.

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

You've met Tipsy, I see.....very good reason for her name. * hint *hint

There IS nothing in their bible about gay weddings....she knows that...that's why she's dodging answering.

You either can't read or prefer not paying attention.

What I said was that the Bible is very clear on telling people not to judge others at all. The admonishments against sin are telling Christians how to judge themselves not judge others.

Please review back until you aren't confused any more. Or are you high?

 

[Katzndogz]

[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm sure they are quite honored to be sort of martyrs for their god.[/QUOTE]
I'm quite sure that the lesbos don't mind taking one for the team either.

 

[indago]

Whether gay people have done anything wrong is none of my business. The Bible is quite clear on judgments. Don't.

Christians aren't supposed to use Leviticus to judge others but to judge themselves.

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

You've met Tipsy, I see.....very good reason for her name. * hint *hint

There IS nothing in their bible about gay weddings....she knows that...that's why she's dodging answering.

You either can't read or prefer not paying attention.

What I said was that the Bible is very clear on telling people not to judge others at all. The admonishments against sin are telling Christians how to judge themselves not judge others.

Please review back until you aren't confused any more. Or are you high?

"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." — Leviticus 20 v 13 - The Bible



"In consequence, I say, God has given them up to shameful passions. Their women have exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and their men in turn, giving up natural relations with women, burn with lust for one another; males behave indecently with males, and are paid in their own persons the fitting wage of such perversion. Thus, because they have not seen fit to acknowledge God, he has given them up to their own depraved reason." — Romans 1 v 26 - The Bible

Paul, in his Letter to the Romans, made this judgment himself. Are you now admonishing him for this judgment?

 

[Katzndogz]

Where is that written in the Bible?

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

You've met Tipsy, I see.....very good reason for her name. * hint *hint

There IS nothing in their bible about gay weddings....she knows that...that's why she's dodging answering.

You either can't read or prefer not paying attention.

What I said was that the Bible is very clear on telling people not to judge others at all. The admonishments against sin are telling Christians how to judge themselves not judge others.

Please review back until you aren't confused any more. Or are you high?

"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." — Leviticus 20 v 13 - The Bible



"In consequence, I say, God has given them up to shameful passions. Their women have exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and their men in turn, giving up natural relations with women, burn with lust for one another; males behave indecently with males, and are paid in their own persons the fitting wage of such perversion. Thus, because they have not seen fit to acknowledge God, he has given them up to their own depraved reason." — Romans 1 v 26 - The Bible

Paul, in his Letter to the Romans, made this judgment himself. Are you now admonishing him for this judgment?

You aren't understanding. These are judgments Christians are to make of themselves. God has given them up to their own depraved reason. God makes those judgments. When Jesus spoke of the whore he told those without sin to cast the first stone. He did not say "let's all run down to the brothel and stone whores."

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

There is nothing more clear in the Bible then telling people not to judge the sin of another. Such judgment is God's alone. Instruction as to what is a sin or not is applied to yourself alone.

I would not attend or participate in a same sex wedding. Not because they are committing a sin by having the wedding but because it would be a sin for me to go.

 

[indago]

In many places. You might try reading it.

I did read it, several times, and you can't support your claim.

You've met Tipsy, I see.....very good reason for her name. * hint *hint

There IS nothing in their bible about gay weddings....she knows that...that's why she's dodging answering.

You either can't read or prefer not paying attention.

What I said was that the Bible is very clear on telling people not to judge others at all. The admonishments against sin are telling Christians how to judge themselves not judge others.

Please review back until you aren't confused any more. Or are you high?

"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." — Leviticus 20 v 13 - The Bible



"In consequence, I say, God has given them up to shameful passions. Their women have exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and their men in turn, giving up natural relations with women, burn with lust for one another; males behave indecently with males, and are paid in their own persons the fitting wage of such perversion. Thus, because they have not seen fit to acknowledge God, he has given them up to their own depraved reason." — Romans 1 v 26 - The Bible

Paul, in his Letter to the Romans, made this judgment himself. Are you now admonishing him for this judgment?

You aren't understanding. These are judgments Christians are to make of themselves. God has given them up to their own depraved reason. God makes those judgments. When Jesus spoke of the whore he told those without sin to cast the first stone. He did not say "let's all run down to the brothel and stone whores."

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

There is nothing more clear in the Bible then telling people not to judge the sin of another. Such judgment is God's alone. Instruction as to what is a sin or not is applied to yourself alone.

I would not attend or participate in a same sex wedding. Not because they are committing a sin by having the wedding but because it would be a sin for me to go.

Then, it is true: you ARE admonishing Paul for make those judgments.

 

[JoeB131]

How is not providing a contracted service that is easily obtainable from another vendor "cheating" people?

A contracted service is not a public accommodation.

And unlike you, most people don't want to be assholes, they just want to live their lives the way they want to.

Screaming bible verses at people you invited to use your business is being an asshole.

Actually, screaming bible verses anywhere outside a church is being an asshole.

 

[JoeB131]

So if a Satanist walked into a Catholic Store to buy a cross, said he would use it in a Black Mass, the Catholic Store would be forced to sell the cross to him?

Sure. Why not?

Figures.

Hey, i'm not the one "selling" faith objects for a profit, which I'm sure is something Jesus never would have approved of had he actually existed.

Oh, and technically, in the Catholic Faith, it's called a Crucifix... Or as I like to call it, "Naked dude on a Stick!"

 

[Katzndogz]

The Kliens do not enjoy a protected right to discriminate.

All those two women wanted was a wedding cake. If exposing the Kleins as anti-American bigots was what it took, that's too bad for the Kleins

The two lesbians got their cake from somewhere else. The Kleins ended up better off than they were.

Are the lesbos better off?

Not if they're treated as second class citizens. A Black man could get a drink of water from another Fontaine. Is he better off?

Being black is not a behavior.

You admit that the lesbos are not better off. Good
They deserve everything they get.

Why, oh why are you so adamant about hating your Gay fellow citizens? Are you afraid of them?

I think she is a closet lesbian.

If only the female body wasn't so abhorrent.

 

[martybegan]

How is not providing a contracted service that is easily obtainable from another vendor "cheating" people?

A contracted service is not a public accommodation.

And unlike you, most people don't want to be assholes, they just want to live their lives the way they want to.

Screaming bible verses at people you invited to use your business is being an asshole.

Actually, screaming bible verses anywhere outside a church is being an asshole.

We don't punish people for being assholes as long as it is only words.

and you are not going to go anywhere with 'keep it in the church". Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion. If you want to hang out in the commons, you may be exposed to religious speech and displays. deal with it.

 

[martybegan]

So if a Satanist walked into a Catholic Store to buy a cross, said he would use it in a Black Mass, the Catholic Store would be forced to sell the cross to him?

Sure. Why not?

Figures.

Hey, i'm not the one "selling" faith objects for a profit, which I'm sure is something Jesus never would have approved of had he actually existed.

Oh, and technically, in the Catholic Faith, it's called a Crucifix... Or as I like to call it, "Naked dude on a Stick!"

Yes, one can get filthy rich being an owner of a small Catholic Store.....

 

[PredFan]

Can we have a collective "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

In all seriousness, I am absolutely against anyone harassing these women, but they are the ones who went after the Klein's.

The hate keeps coming: Pain lingers for lesbian couple denied in Sweet Cakes case

It's just a cake, Laurel Bowman-Cryer used to tell her wife, Rachel. But three and a half years have passed, and the hate mail keeps coming.

Back in 2013, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa made headlines when they refused to make the lesbians' wedding cake. A state official, in a move that's redefined his political career, eventually ordered the bakers to pay $135,000.

The Bowman-Cryers have received thousands of Facebook messages, each one calling them fat or evil, the dumb lesbians who ruined those Christian bakers' lives.

As they waited for their daughter's school bus this May, Rachel's cell phone dinged with a new missive.

"I am buying up my ammo right now you filthy, ugly, disgusting, fat, stupid, cruel, anti-Christian piece of liberal scum," she read aloud. "I am getting ready for the war so I hope you have a good hiding place, you sick, disgusting, miserable, piece of degenerate lesbian scum."

The Bowman-Cryers say they never wanted the money, which remains locked in a government account. They say they never wanted a war.

For three and a half years, they have hidden, believing in time their names would disappear from the headlines. They didn't answer the phone. They declined hundreds of interviews, quit their jobs and stopped leaving the house.

Their silence has not protected them. As the Bowman-Cryers retreated, the fury over their case grew louder.

The bakers, Aaron and Melissa Klein, appealed their fines and hired former President George H.W. Bush's White House lawyer. They toured the country with presidential candidate Ted Cruz as the face of a new fight for business owners' religious freedom.

The legalization of same-sex marriage isn't the end of the story, the Kleins told crowds from Iowa to Washington, D.C. The government, they said, wants to force Christian business owners to help gay people marry. The solution, the Kleins warned receptive lawmakers, would be legislation protecting religious liberty. Arkansas, North Carolina and Mississippi have approved bills since then, curtailing the civil rights gay people fought to win.

The hate keeps coming: Pain lingers for lesbian couple denied in Sweet Cakes case

If they want sympathy, they can find it between Shit and Syphilis in the dictionary.

 

[JoeB131]

We don't punish people for being assholes as long as it is only words.

and you are not going to go anywhere with 'keep it in the church". Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion. If you want to hang out in the commons, you may be exposed to religious speech and displays. deal with it.

Actually, we've established you can't put your superstitions on public land... but that wasn't the point here.

The Kleins broke the law. sorry you don't get that.

Yes, one can get filthy rich being an owner of a small Catholic Store.....

Hey, someone has to raise the money they are paying out to molested altar boys. Religion isn't free, baby. God Needs Money!!!

 

[martybegan]

We don't punish people for being assholes as long as it is only words.

and you are not going to go anywhere with 'keep it in the church". Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion. If you want to hang out in the commons, you may be exposed to religious speech and displays. deal with it.

Actually, we've established you can't put your superstitions on public land... but that wasn't the point here.

The Kleins broke the law. sorry you don't get that.

Yes, one can get filthy rich being an owner of a small Catholic Store.....

Hey, someone has to raise the money they are paying out to molested altar boys. Religion isn't free, baby. God Needs Money!!!

Homer Plessey broke the law as well. Breaking a law that is stupid or in this case stupidly applied is not a wrong.

And your usual anti-religious bias is as always, stale, tired, and predictable.

 

[JoeB131]

Homer Plessey broke the law as well. Breaking a law that is stupid or in this case stupidly applied is not a wrong.

And your usual anti-religious bias is as always, stale, tired, and predictable.

No, stupid is acting like an asshole towards other people who aren't bothering you because you are trying to please an imaginary pixie in the Sky.

Homer plessey arranged his own arrest to create a legal challenge to a bad law, because the railroad didn't want to buy more cars. They picked Plessey because he was only 1/8th black.

Homer Plessy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, unless you are claiming that Mrs. Klein intentionally invited the Cryer-Bowman's so that her husband could scream homophobic slurs at her mother, because they had this brilliant plan to challenge the Public Accommodation Laws, there is probably no comparison

But I like my theory better. Mrs. Klein is probably an otherwise nice person who got sabotaged by her asshole husband who otherwise can't hold down a job.

 

[martybegan]

Homer Plessey broke the law as well. Breaking a law that is stupid or in this case stupidly applied is not a wrong.

And your usual anti-religious bias is as always, stale, tired, and predictable.

No, stupid is acting like an asshole towards other people who aren't bothering you because you are trying to please an imaginary pixie in the Sky.

Homer plessey arranged his own arrest to create a legal challenge to a bad law, because the railroad didn't want to buy more cars. They picked Plessey because he was only 1/8th black.

Homer Plessy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, unless you are claiming that Mrs. Klein intentionally invited the Cryer-Bowman's so that her husband could scream homophobic slurs at her mother, because they had this brilliant plan to challenge the Public Accommodation Laws, there is probably no comparison

But I like my theory better. Mrs. Klein is probably an otherwise nice person who got sabotaged by her asshole husband who otherwise can't hold down a job.

That isn't up for you to decide, and if there is no actual harm, not for government to decide either. stop being such a ******* busy body.

My example is still valid. "breaking the law" doesn't mean the law is right or just. There are plenty of bad and stupid laws still on the books.

and your assumptions about their family dynamics are about as dumb as a Dot Com post.

 

[JoeB131]

That isn't up for you to decide, and if there is no actual harm, not for government to decide either. stop being such a ******* busy body.

Guy, if "actual harm" became the legal standard, we could probably get rid of 90% of the litigation filed. Please stop pretending this is about mean old government.

My example is still valid. "breaking the law" doesn't mean the law is right or just. There are plenty of bad and stupid laws still on the books.

Yes there are. This isn't one of them. If you are too much of a bigot to contain yourself, you should find something else to do for a living.

and your assumptions about their family dynamics are about as dumb as a Dot Com post.

Actually, you can tell that just by watching them at these Right Wing YouTube conferences, where he's doing all the ranting and she's standing there meekly wondering how her life got this fucked up.