Oy! Those Crafty Jews!

[AnOrangeCat]

And private landowner-ship doesn't define a state hood

Exactly, which is why there has never been an independent Palestinian state. Never. Not once, not ever. But there has been an Israel and you said yourself that Jews have been living there the entire time. Then you make up rules about how the land is only yours if it is privately owned, of which none of it was until the Mandate ended if we follow your statement through to its natural conclusion.

You can't claim ownership of the Dune Sea if you have only transient presence on it. Arabs aren't Tusken Raiders.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

- Just because some Jew from Albania owns some acres in the USA - he owns or has rights towards the State of Colorado and the entire USA? - only a Zionist would claim that incomprehensible nonsense.

Israel was partitioned, so don't know what you're trying to say.

And you said that Jews had been there the whole time, so what does it matter if Jews from the diaspora join them? Also, it's racist how you portray Israelis and Jews as white colonizers even though there were about 900,000 Jews who came to Israel who weren't from Europe.

But you never talk about those Jews because they completely ruin your racist narrative, racist.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

Read up history as to which government or Empire ruled over the entire Levant after the Romans till 1948.

Ah, so then Palestinians have never "owned the land", and were all made up after the Arabs lost the war.

And England partitioned the land to create two states, just like they did in India.

So how come 15 million people were displaced in India, with every displaced Hindu made a citizen of India and every displaced Muslim made a citizen of Pakistan, and 900,000 Jews were displaced from MENA countries and made citizens of Israel, yet 650,000 Arabs who were displaced didn't end up as citizens of the Arab nations?

So what's the excuse?

How come Muslims in Pakistan were made citizens but Muslims in Arab countries weren't?

 

[gipper]

Ah, so then Palestinians have never "owned the land", and were all made up after the Arabs lost the war.

And England partitioned the land to create two states, just like they did in India.

So how come 15 million people were displaced in India, with every displaced Hindu made a citizen of India and every displaced Muslim made a citizen of Pakistan, and 900,000 Jews were displaced from MENA countries and made citizens of Israel, yet 650,000 Arabs who were displaced didn't end up as citizens of the Arab nations?

So what's the excuse?

How come Muslims in Pakistan were made citizens but Muslims in Arab countries weren't?

Is this you spitting on a rabbi?

 

[AnOrangeCat]

Not a single Jewish state entity - till those invading European Jewish hordes came in and declared a State of Israel on the land of others - without ever having defined nor acknowledged by the UN any international borders.

Same for Palestine.

And the UN did recognize borders for an Israeli state in the 1947 partition that Arabs refused to accept, even though every member of the Security Council, including the USSR, voted to approve. Israel was recognized as a state in 1948, meaning the UN recognized the 1948 war as Israel's borders.

Had Arabs accepted that partition, they would have ended up with a "Palestine", but instead those lands became Egyptian and Jordanian. So how come from 1948-1967, Egypt and Jordan didn't create a "Palestine"? Those are the lands you're claiming are a Palestine today, yet Egypt and Jordan didn't bestow statehood on Gaza, Judea, Samaria, and E. Jerusalem.

So what's the excuse there? Why didn't Egypt or Jordan create a "Palestine"? They held the land for almost 20 years, certainly enough time.

 

[AnOrangeCat]

As a matter of fact - when the Byzantines ruled the Levant - Jews factually had to leave the Levant - especially Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. When the Umayyad Caliphate and Abbasid Caliphate took over the rule of former Byzantine at around 700 A.D. - "they" factually allowed for the return of Jews.

Ah, so Muslims committed ethnic cleansing, then. Interesting. So when Muslims ethnically cleansed most of the Jews, the Jews suddenly had no right or agency in the land. But then Jews were allowed to return, why?

So how come then when Arabs self-deport, they do have a right to the land? What's the excuse there? What's the difference?

And besides, you said yourself that Jews have always been there, and what you're describing above is colonization. Which is what you accuse Israel of doing.

Grow up, read it up and check for yourself - after all you wrote just two posts before:

And there's that petulant attitude that always rears its ugly head whenever one of you reaches the limit of your knowledge. So Jews have been there the entire time, to one degree or another, but their presence has been constant.

So how come those Jews are allowed to live there but Jews in the diaspora aren't?

I think we've established that you make it all up as you go.

That is exactly what you are doing, making it all up as you go.

 

[gipper]

Same for Palestine.

And the UN did recognize borders for an Israeli state in the 1947 partition that Arabs refused to accept, even though every member of the Security Council, including the USSR, voted to approve. Israel was recognized as a state in 1948, meaning the UN recognized the 1948 war as Israel's borders.

Had Arabs accepted that partition, they would have ended up with a "Palestine", but instead those lands became Egyptian and Jordanian. So how come from 1948-1967, Egypt and Jordan didn't create a "Palestine"? Those are the lands you're claiming are a Palestine today, yet Egypt and Jordan didn't bestow statehood on Gaza, Judea, Samaria, and E. Jerusalem.

So what's the excuse there? Why didn't Egypt or Jordan create a "Palestine"? They held the land for almost 20 years, certainly enough time.

How do you support this?

 

[AnOrangeCat]

Their Canaanite ancestors

I'm gonna stop you there. Canaanites are not Palestinian ancestors because Palestinians are Arabs.

So their ancestors were trudging around the Arabian peninsula, which is not the Levant.

And if Palestinians are somehow descended from ancient Canaanite tribes, how come literally everything about their identity is Arab?

Every other ethnic group retained significant parts of their culture pre-Muslim colonization. The Jews, Kurds, Persians, Armenians, Coptics, Berbers, Yazids, Bedouin, and Druze are all distinct ethnic and cultural groups in the same region as Palestinian Arabs. So how come those groups all retained their culture but Palestinians did not?

What's the excuse there?

Everything about Palestinian culture is Arab. They speak Arabic, they give their kids Arab names, they uphold Arab customs, and they pray to Mecca, not Jerusalem.

So how are Palestinians descended from Levant tribes if all of their identity comes from outside the Levant??

 

[rosends]

Was that you?

no -- I'm in New Jersey. I told you that. Oh yeah, you have a child's attention span. I have to keep reminidng myself that you are only 11.

 

[rosends]

OK, so if there were always Jews there, then why can't Jews in the diaspora join them? It's because you prefer to have control over Jews, and keeping them disparate is how you maintain that control. You can't control Jews if they have their own country, and that is clearly unacceptable to you.

that would be like Arabs (from Arabia) moving to the region and claiming to be "Palestinians".

 

[AnOrangeCat]

How ignorant are you? just because a native of Carthage became a Muslim sometime after 650 A.D. - he is no more a native? and can't own the land of his father or forefathers anymore?

Palestinian ancestry comes from outside the Levant. That's why they speak Arabic. That's why they give their kids Arab names. That's why they uphold Arab customs. That's why they pray to Mecca.

You would have us (laughably) believe that Palestinians don't identify as Arabs even though everything about them is Arab.

According to an ignoramus like you - a red Indian converting to Christianity isn't a native anymore?

But Palestinians aren't native to the Levant, they're native to Arabia. Literally everything about them is Arab. They even pray to a city that isn't even in the Levant.

Jews pray to Jerusalem. Muslims pray to Mecca. So how does that make Palestinian indigenous?

 

[teddyearp]

I am of Irish heritage. But I have been in America my whole life … my great grandfather immigrated from Ireland. So 1000 years from now if one of my ancestors who still lives in America says they have a right to Ireland because of an ancestor connection that’s the same thing as the Zionist ideology.
<snip>

Journalists and data has shown us that the civilian death ratio in Gaza is worse than the civilian death ratio in Ukraine or that of the Syrian Civil War.

Hmm, not the same. Have the Irish been chased all over the United States for two thousand years? Have they been persecuted, killed, and forced to move for the last two thousand years? Did some dictator decide that the Irish are inherently evil and needed a "final solution"? For that matter how many countries have decided that the Irish, for the last two thousand years, are trying to take over the world and therefore needed to be killed? I am not saying that the Irish, especially as Catholics, have not experienced some level of persecution, but not nearly on the level as the Jews. And then there's the religious aspect of the Jewish people, making any comparison apple to oranges.

Journalists and data has shown that the civilian death is more in Gaza, but they all seem to forget to mention that Hamas makes sure of that by the actions they take.

 

[teddyearp]

I rarely see anyone on the pro Palestine side saying Jews are a problem or Judaism is an evil religion.

Are you serious? How long have you been researching this? You have really got to be kidding. Maybe you must have gipper and all his buddies like Ancient Lion on ignore or something? Maybe you just haven't been here in the I/P section in the only four years you've been a member here.

Either that or you are lying.