Overturning Roe Is a Radical, Not Conservative, Choice

[hadit]

Fetuses aren't babies, and it's the woman's choice.

The problem here is that "healthy" is subjective.

No, it is not. A doctor can examine an unborn baby (because that's exactly what that is in there), run tests on him/her, and pronounce that as fae as can be determined medically, that is a healthy baby. You will still fight any attempt to protect that life. You're proving my point with all the ducking, dodging and weaving you're doing. Remove the entire health issue from the debate, that's where your true allegiance lies.

Again, same reason we won't see crime scene photographs of Uvalde.

Shock value is exactly what it is... when you can't discuss the issue rationally.

And the only reason it would be shocking is...?

 

[JoeB131]

No, it is not. A doctor can examine an unborn baby (because that's exactly what that is in there), run tests on him/her, and pronounce that as fae as can be determined medically, that is a healthy baby. You will still fight any attempt to protect that life. You're proving my point with all the ducking, dodging and weaving you're doing. Remove the entire health issue from the debate, that's where your true allegiance lies.

There's no ducking, dodging or weaving.

Nobody is aborting health third trimester pregnancies. Less than 1% of abortions happen in the third trimester. The only reason why you guys obsess on it is because whatever you dig out of the medical waste container looks more like a baby than what the 99% performed in the first 12 weeks look like.

And politicians should not be substituting their judgement for that of Doctors and Women. Because it's a camel's nose under the tent kind of thing. First you are making doctors fill out forms proving the baby is fucked up, and next you're in the fucking Republic of Gilead!

And I used to think that was a shitty book until Republicans started doing the live action version.

 

[hadit]

There's no ducking, dodging or weaving.

Nobody is aborting health third trimester pregnancies. Less than 1% of abortions happen in the third trimester. The only reason why you guys obsess on it is because whatever you dig out of the medical waste container looks more like a baby than what the 99% performed in the first 12 weeks look like.

And politicians should not be substituting their judgement for that of Doctors and Women. Because it's a camel's nose under the tent kind of thing. First you are making doctors fill out forms proving the baby is fucked up, and next you're in the fucking Republic of Gilead!

And I used to think that was a shitty book until Republicans started doing the live action version.

Annnnd you prove my point yet again. You will NOT protect the life of a perfectly healthy late-term baby, full stop. You are out on the fringe in the extreme minority.

Here's the thing, it SHOULD require a large burden of proof that a baby is terminally ill and will suffer extreme pain for a few short, miserable days before someone is allowed to butcher him/her alive. You want the butchering to happen with no burden of proof whatsoever. You have NO interest in protecting a healthy baby mere days or weeks from birth. Just admit it and stop dancing around. You say arbitrary abortions don't happen, fine, let's put it into law so it doesn't happen.

 

[JoeB131]

Annnnd you prove my point yet again. You will NOT protect the life of a perfectly healthy late-term baby, full stop. You are out on the fringe in the extreme minority.

No, I won't let religious nuts make medical decisions.

Here's the thing, it SHOULD require a large burden of proof that a baby is terminally ill and will suffer extreme pain for a few short, miserable days before someone is allowed to butcher him/her alive. You want the butchering to happen with no burden of proof whatsoever. You have NO interest in protecting a healthy baby mere days or weeks from birth. Just admit it and stop dancing around. You say arbitrary abortions don't happen, fine, let's put it into law so it doesn't happen.

No, because again, once you guys get your camel's nose under the tent, you get the whole camel in. You guys simply can't be trusted.

The point is, late abortions are so rare that there are only a handful of doctors who perform them, like the late Doctor Tiller, who was called a baby killer until one of you nuts murdered him. These cases ALREADY have a lot of professional scrutiny.

 

[hadit]

No, I won't let religious nuts make medical decisions.

You won't let DOCTORS make medical decisions. You won't protect a baby that an entire team of doctors has stated is perfectly healthy. You won't do it.

No, because again, once you guys get your camel's nose under the tent, you get the whole camel in. You guys simply can't be trusted.

The point is, late abortions are so rare that there are only a handful of doctors who perform them, like the late Doctor Tiller, who was called a baby killer until one of you nuts murdered him. These cases ALREADY have a lot of professional scrutiny.

No, the point is, and always has been, all your excuses and smoke screens are just that, excuses and smoke screens. The bottom line remains, you are an abortion extremist who won't protect ANY baby that hasn't had the lawyer fairy dust with his magic powder. That's the bottom line and it would behoove you to just state that up front instead of all this hand-waving and pretending that you do now.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

1. Completely irrelevent.
2. Not really related. We'd have just as many car crashes if people all drove the speed limit.
3. Abortion doesn't have victims, it has medical waste. Nobody televises abortions for the same reason they don't televise colonosopies.... because they're gross.

Banning abortion has victims.

 

[JoeB131]

You won't let DOCTORS make medical decisions. You won't protect a baby that an entire team of doctors has stated is perfectly healthy. You won't do it.

Why do you need a "team" of Doctors? You see the gag here? You want to put a hurdle in front of women who are already making a difficult choice. This is kind of why we don't trust you guys... because you are just looking for an angle. You've been pulling this crap for 50 years. Like making women get an ultrasound or waiting periods or making them get their parent's permission unless they can prove it's incest.

We don't trust you.

No, the point is, and always has been, all your excuses and smoke screens are just that, excuses and smoke screens. The bottom line remains, you are an abortion extremist who won't protect ANY baby that hasn't had the lawyer fairy dust with his magic powder. That's the bottom line and it would behoove you to just state that up front instead of all this hand-waving and pretending that you do now.

I've made my point really clear. I don't trust religious fanatics to make medical decisions.

NOw, there could be a scenario where a woman is wanting to abort a supposedly healthy fetus... like she just found out her no-good man is cheating on her or something, but frankly, this isn't the kind of thing that I really want the government regulating.

 

[hadit]

Why do you need a "team" of Doctors? You see the gag here? You want to put a hurdle in front of women who are already making a difficult choice. This is kind of why we don't trust you guys... because you are just looking for an angle. You've been pulling this crap for 50 years. Like making women get an ultrasound or waiting periods or making them get their parent's permission unless they can prove it's incest.

We don't trust you.



I've made my point really clear. I don't trust religious fanatics to make medical decisions.

NOw, there could be a scenario where a woman is wanting to abort a supposedly healthy fetus... like she just found out her no-good man is cheating on her or something, but frankly, this isn't the kind of thing that I really want the government regulating.

You have said absolutely nothing that indicates you are willing to protect even the healthiest of late-term babies. A woman could be 2 weeks from delivering a perfectly healthy (as determined by her doctor, not you) baby and decide for whatever reason that she wants instead to kill the baby, and you do not want that to be illegal. You keep dancing around the baby being healthy or not, and I've removed that from consideration. Not talking about Down's, where a person can have a full life with a disability. Not talking about a cleft palate that can be corrected with minor surgery. Just plain, full-on healthy, not a thing wrong, all the fingers and toes. Perfectly capable of surviving and thriving outside the womb at this stage.

You will not protect that life, bottom line. You are an abortion extremist out on the fringe. Just accept that's who you are and state it up front in these discussions, it will save everyone a lot of time.

 

[BS Filter]

Why do you need a "team" of Doctors? You see the gag here? You want to put a hurdle in front of women who are already making a difficult choice. This is kind of why we don't trust you guys... because you are just looking for an angle. You've been pulling this crap for 50 years. Like making women get an ultrasound or waiting periods or making them get their parent's permission unless they can prove it's incest.

We don't trust you.



I've made my point really clear. I don't trust religious fanatics to make medical decisions.

NOw, there could be a scenario where a woman is wanting to abort a supposedly healthy fetus... like she just found out her no-good man is cheating on her or something, but frankly, this isn't the kind of thing that I really want the government regulating.

Conservatives don't want the government regulating abortion either. We agree. Now the people of each state can choose. Democracy.

 

[JoeB131]

You have said absolutely nothing that indicates you are willing to protect even the healthiest of late-term babies. A woman could be 2 weeks from delivering a perfectly healthy (as determined by her doctor, not you) baby and decide for whatever reason that she wants instead to kill the baby, and you do not want that to be illegal. You keep dancing around the baby being healthy or not, and I've removed that from consideration. Not talking about Down's, where a person can have a full life with a disability. Not talking about a cleft palate that can be corrected with minor surgery. Just plain, full-on healthy, not a thing wrong, all the fingers and toes. Perfectly capable of surviving and thriving outside the womb at this stage.

You will not protect that life, bottom line. You are an abortion extremist out on the fringe. Just accept that's who you are and state it up front in these discussions, it will save everyone a lot of time.

But you see, you are making my point. You haven't even gotten me to agree to the imaginary healthy babies being aborted and you are ALREADY trying to expand the discussion to deformed fetuses.

You guys can't be trusted.

Take fetal homicide laws. Sounds great in principle, nobody likes anyone who hits pregnant ladies. But you abused them. It was bad enough you guys used these laws to railroad guys like Scott Peterson (whom there was ZERO physical evidence against, but you hung a dead baby around his neck.) Then you have people like Purvi Patel and Bei-Bei Shaui who suffered miscarriages and were charged with fetal homicide.

 

[JoeB131]

Conservatives don't want the government regulating abortion either. We agree. Now the people of each state can choose. Democracy.

Um, are you some kind of fucking retard? Do you suffer from a learning disability?

States are run by GOVERNMENTS. The people aren't deciding, GOVERNMENTS are.

 

[BS Filter]

Um, are you some kind of fucking retard? Do you suffer from a learning disability?

States are run by GOVERNMENTS. The people aren't deciding, GOVERNMENTS are.

The people will vote in each state for people to pass legislation. What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't you understand democracy? Fucking moron.

 

[San Souci]

“America is a different place, with most of its population born after Roe was decided. And a decision to overturn Roe — which the court seems poised to do, according to the leak of a draft of a majority opinion from Justice Samuel Alito — would do more to replicate Roe’s damage than to reverse it.

It would be a radical, not conservative, choice.

What is conservative? It is, above all, the conviction that abrupt and profound changes to established laws and common expectations are utterly destructive to respect for the law and the institutions established to uphold it — especially when those changes are instigated from above, with neither democratic consent nor broad consensus.”

Opinion | Overturning Roe Is a Radical, Not Conservative, Choice (Published 2022)

An abrupt and profound change to an established law is utterly destructive to respect for the law.

www.nytimes.com

Overturning Roe is therefore repugnant to conservativism – it is radical, extreme, reckless, and irresponsible.

Since Baby Murder has become common , Feminazis now put a notch on their belt for every abortion they have. These whores are actually PROUD of the babies they murder.

 

[San Souci]

The Rightwing penchant overturning long established precedent and established late, for putting in political judges and creating tbe most politically activist court since FDR almost a century ago….is indeed reckless.

The Supreme Court is losing credibility as being an impartial judiciary is being eroded in the eyes of many American. This isn’t good for our country. Neither is the possible precedent of giving individual rights and then taking them away.

That "Precedent" was illegal. The COURT can't make Law. ROE was a bad decision with NO constitutional Precedent. And Dobbs sent it to the ash heap of History.

 

[JoeB131]

he people will vote in each state for people to pass legislation. What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't you understand democracy? Fucking moron.

Okay. Let's do that with guns. You'd probably get bans on guns in most states by popular vote than you would abortion.

Oh, wait, no, then you don't believe in Democracy!

Nobody's rights should be up for a vote.

 

[hadit]

But you see, you are making my point. You haven't even gotten me to agree to the imaginary healthy babies being aborted and you are ALREADY trying to expand the discussion to deformed fetuses.

You guys can't be trusted.

Take fetal homicide laws. Sounds great in principle, nobody likes anyone who hits pregnant ladies. But you abused them. It was bad enough you guys used these laws to railroad guys like Scott Peterson (whom there was ZERO physical evidence against, but you hung a dead baby around his neck.) Then you have people like Purvi Patel and Bei-Bei Shaui who suffered miscarriages and were charged with fetal homicide.

And you're being deliberately obtuse. I present the case where a woman decides she wants a late-term abortion. Whatever reason, she wants one. Her doctor says, "There is nothing wrong with your baby and you are less than one month from delivery." I want that baby protected by law, you do not. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with anyone deciding the health of the baby other than the doctor. Now, if you are honest and not just dancing again, you will state you either want that baby protected by law or you want that baby unprotected and legally torn apart.

 

[JoeB131]

And you're being deliberately obtuse. I present the case where a woman decides she wants a late-term abortion. Whatever reason, she wants one. Her doctor says, "There is nothing wrong with your baby and you are less than one month from delivery." I want that baby protected by law, you do not. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with anyone deciding the health of the baby other than the doctor. Now, if you are honest and not just dancing again, you will state you either want that baby protected by law or you want that baby unprotected and legally torn apart.

1) That Scenario never happens.
2) We've already seen how you guys abuse Fetal Homicide laws to go after women who have abortions or miscarriages.
3) We don't trust you, for good reason.

 

[Esdraelon]

No, I won't let religious nuts make medical decisions.

SCOTUS just gave that decision back to the voters in the states. Get over it. If you want to help women you feel are being harmed, donate cash, give them rides to a state where they can get what they want.

 

[hadit]

1) That Scenario never happens.
2) We've already seen how you guys abuse Fetal Homicide laws to go after women who have abortions or miscarriages.
3) We don't trust you, for good reason.

You can't even give ANY scenario under which you would protect the life of the child. That's the bottom line. Like I've said multiple times now, you are an abortion extremist, on the fringe.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't even give ANY scenario under which you would protect the life of the child. That's the bottom line. Like I've said multiple times now, you are an abortion extremist, on the fringe.

I don't think this is something the government should be involved in. Fetuses aren't children. Women and Doctors are the best people to make these decisions.

So, um, yeah, I don't spend time worrying about mythical scenarios.