Over 30,000 Post 9/11 Suicides Amongst Veterans

[the other mike]

And this does not factor in those PTSD deaths not classed as suicides, or those who snapped and started shooting, ending up in prison. That's not that uncommon anymore either. To say nothing of those who accidentally overdose, all while fighting PTSD.

Veterans Fighting To Smoke Weed For PTSD​

 

[Mushroom]

And why are they doing it if the op is wrong , as you claim?

My guess is if they couldnt cut it in the military they had other personal problems that drove them to suicide

Actually, not. In fact, most times it is the same as amongst the general population. And many comparisons over the decades have been made with those in colleges far from home.

Young males, for the first time living away from their family, the "safety net" that many have used. Getting into things like unwise spending of money, debt, alcohol use, and relationship issues. These are not even unique to the military, it is the isolationism that many face for the first time in their lives. The military itself actually rarely seems to be of a major factor, other than that is why they are no longer at home in the first place.

If you look at the highest number of suicides, the common factors are young single males, aged 18-25. The highest risk group among civilians as well. This alone tends to skew the numbers, because the biggest risk factor is seen in almost 5 times the numbers in the military, as opposed to the general population. And I know those who tried, and did it while I was in. In almost all of them, money, relationships, and alcohol were major factors.

It is almost a cliché that young Soldiers join, buy a sports car, and marry a stripper. And the thing is, I knew at least 4 that did exactly that. One did kill himself after his wife left, another tried. That is why when my wife and I split up in 1991, I took my gun to a friend and had them hold it. The military had nothing to do with my mindset, it was entirely personal issues.

And among veterans, you have the issues of poor health that tends to happen as we get older. A lot of WWII and Korean War vets killed themselves. Not because of having been in the military, but they were of a generation where around 40% of those eligible to serve did so. Actors like Brian Keith, who served as a gunner in the Marine Corps in a Dauntless dive bomber.

However, in 1997 he was 75. He had been diagnosed with both emphysema and lung cancer, and his daughter committed suicide. And he had been reported to have been depressed not only because of that, but his failing health, and that he had already lost so many. So a tragedy, but none believe his having served had anything to do with this final decision. Yet, he is one of many "Veteran Suicides". because he had served.

 

[the other mike]

Forever wars only benefit contractors,

Something to say about weed comrade ?

 

[odanny]

And why are they doing it if the op is wrong , as you claim?

My guess is if they couldnt cut it in the military they had other personal problems that drove them to suicide

Maybe they realized they've been lied to and were tricked into joining for 'free college' --"welcome to the University of fucking Baghdad kid."

Look up how many Guard and Reserves got sent under Bush and Obama.

PTSD is real, and it causes all kinds of problems in the human psyche, the most drastic being murder, or suicide. Sending troops into the killing fields of Iraq is one thing, but exposing them daily to violence, be it their fellow soldiers, innocent civilians in the crossfire, or enemy insurgents is going to take a toll on the human condition with no foreseeable end, no "victory" to attain, in sight. You make sure you fight wars that are winnable, not the absolute fucking disaster that is Afghanistan and was Iraq. It was unwinnable under the most deceitful and manufactured reasons, ones that most people there knew were bullshit. Not exactly reassuring someone why they are risking their life.

Recently, an E-7 Green Beret was visiting some family member in a town in Illinois, and was in a bowling alley on a Saturday night, apparently alone, and didn't know a soul in the place, according to police. He pulled out his 9mm and started shooting, killing 4 people. Dude was a decorated veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, special forces Green Beret.

Tell me that PTSD wasn't involved in that incident. How many more happen all the time, some not as deadly, some not as violent, but all of them underreported?

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Forever wars only benefit contractors, corporations, and politicians, and no one else. Almost never civilians, who die in numbers equal or far greater than the soldiers, and never the soldiers themselves, who, if they survive, have another war waiting to fight in the civilian world.

Perpetual War = Perpetual Commerce

And this does not factor in those PTSD deaths not classed as suicides, or those who snapped and started shooting, ending up in prison. That's not that uncommon anymore either. To say nothing of those who accidentally overdose, all while fighting PTSD.


The study finds that at least four times as many active duty personnel and war veterans of post-9/11 conflicts have died of suicide than in combat, as an estimated 30,177 have died by suicide as compared with the 7,057 killed in post-9/11 war operations. The report notes that the increasing rates of suicide for both veterans and active duty personnel are outpacing those of the general population - an alarming shift, as suicide rates among service members have historically been lower than suicide rates among the general population

2021 - Paper - High Suicide Rates | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

War Happy Obammy was hard on our troops.

Sad really.

View attachment 504392

Yeah, do not blame it on Bush and Cheney.

Agreed.

 

[Mushroom]

Recently, an E-7 Green Beret was visiting some family member in a town in Illinois, and was in a bowling alley on a Saturday night, apparently alone, and didn't know a soul in the place, according to police. He pulled out his 9mm and started shooting, killing 4 people. Dude was a decorated veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, special forces Green Beret.

And is it required that people who shoot up places have to all be veterans?

Oh, but there is a connection with the location. You see, Webb's father was injured in a DUI accident a few months earlier, by an employee of the bar & grill they were all picking food up at.

But once again, to you all vets with PTSD are obviously walking guns just waiting to go off. I got it, you bought completely into that "Killer with PRDS" trope that has been going around since Vietnam.

But please, give me a seriously researched article showing what percentage of mass shooters and murderers are veterans. I know because I have looked, and find almost nothing but biased hack propaganda pieces. Here is one of the funniest from just a few months ago, that actually had me laughing when I first read it.

There’s no need to have any contact with the U.S. military in order to dress and act as if you’re in the military, as many mass-shooters do, some of them waging their own delusional wars against immigrants or other groups. But it is remarkable that at least 36% of U.S. mass shooters (and quite possibly more) have in fact been trained by the U.S. military.

Of course, he throws out all women automatically, and anybody over 59. And any not born in the US. Then you have this gem:

I’ve also deleted some of the shooting incidents, reducing the list from 121 to 106 shootings. I’ve done this, just as on past occasion, in order to be able to make an accurate comparison to the general population.

No explanation of who or why, just that he removed 15 cases, for reasons only his own to make the statistics come out as he liked.

I’ve also deleted one shooting that was an attack on the U.S. military by a foreign-born shooter, as it seems irrelevant to ask if that shooter had been in the U.S. military.

Hmmm, interesting. I wanted to look through his data, but it is no longer available. The original at Mother Jones was, but I find it strange that his is not anymore. But let's move on.

Looking at the 106 shootings in the remaining database, I’ve marked 38 of them as being committed by U.S. military veterans. In three cases, this indicates a veteran of JROTC, one of whom may or may not have had further participation in the military.

Really, JROTC? Three of them are in JROTC, therefore were "military"? Holy hell, why not include all that were in Scouts while you are at it, a "paramilitary organization".

And finally, his conclusion.

The result of all this is that, with this updated database, 36% of U.S. mass shooters (lone, male, 18-59) are veterans. If we leave out the three who are only veterans of JROTC, we still get 33% being veterans.

So in other words, after throwing out huge numbers of cases for his own often undisclosed purposes in order to make the data match what he wanted to see, he concluded that 36% of mass shooters were military.

At Least 36% of Mass Shooters have been Trained by the U.S. Military

CityWatch is published 24/7 with special e-news blasts on Monday and Thursday evening, with Extras as appropriate around special events such as elections or imp

www.citywatchla.com

But I can see you buy completely into that nonsense. And I am sure you will now be using this completely bogus "study" compiled in the most unscientific manner possible as proof that you are right.

David Swanson is an author, activist, journalist, and radio host. He is executive director of WorldBeyondWar.org and campaign coordinator for RootsAction.org. Swanson‘s books include War Is A Lie.

Nice to see the "We hate Veterans" movement is back. We have missed them since Vietnam.

 

[Mac-7]

And this does not factor in those PTSD deaths not classed as suicides, or those who snapped and started shooting, ending up in prison. That's not that uncommon anymore either. To say nothing of those who accidentally overdose, all while fighting PTSD.

I dont think so
And as usual, not actually looking into the real statistics. Just making things up to try and fit them into your beliefs.

A large study of nearly 4 million U.S. service members and veterans found that deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan is not associated with an increased risk of suicide.
Appearing in JAMA Psychiatry online on Wednesday, the study by researchers at the Defense Department's National Center for Telehealth and Technology, or T2, indicates that although the suicide rate among active-duty personnel has increased since 2001, the rate for those who deployed to a combat zone was roughly the same as for those who did not.

Study: No link between combat deployment and suicides

A large study of nearly 4 million U.S. service members and veterans found that deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan is not associated with an increased risk of suicide.

www.militarytimes.com

And this is a study released in 2015, we now know that in fact the risk of those who deployed is even lower.

But as I all to often see, the hatred and bigotry of those in the military has slanted your views.

But for a moment, let me humor this "report". Here is my question, it is an actual intellectual paper that really assembles the data then tries to reach a conclusion based on the data? Or are they combing through the data in an attempt to make connections to follow their beliefs? Well, it was not hard to figure that out.

The Costs of War Project is a team of 50 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2010. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the related violence in Pakistan and Syria. There are many hidden or unacknowledged costs of the United States’ decision to respond to the 9/11 attacks with military force. We aim to foster democratic discussion of these wars by providing the fullest possible account of their human, economic, and political costs, and to foster better informed public policies.

Project Goals:​

• To account for and illustrate the wars’ costs in human lives among all categories of person affected by them, both in the US and in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan;
• To tell as accessible as possible a story of the wars’ costs in US federal and local dollars, including the long-term financial legacy of the wars in the US;
• To assess the public health consequences of the wars, including for the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan and for US veterans living with war injuries and illnesses;
• To describe how these wars have changed the political landscape of the US and the countries where the wars have been waged, including the status of women in the war zones, the degree to which Iraq and Afghanistan’s fledgling democracies are inclusive and transparent, and the state of civil liberties and human rights in the US;
• To identify less costly and more effective ways to prevent further terror attacks.

About | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

So yeah, this is not a serious scholarly article that is looking at things in a neutral and non-biased manner. It is a targeted fluff piece, intending to push an agenda. And they do not even do actual research, they say it quite clearly themselves. "We use research and a public website to facilitate debate". Translation, they cherry pick things from other sources that support their own bias and beliefs, and then shovel it to others. In more simple words, propaganda.

Therefore, flushed as not important at all.

Hell, I bet you do not even know how a "Veteran with PTSD" acts or behaves.

Well done!

Legalize weed so the VA can give it to these guys and I GUARANTEE the suicide rate will drop in half the first year.

 

[Mac-7]

And why are they doing it if the op is wrong , as you claim?

My guess is if they couldnt cut it in the military they had other personal problems that drove them to suicide

Maybe they realized they've been lied to and were tricked into joining for 'free college' --"welcome to the University of fucking Baghdad kid."

Look up how many Guard and Reserves got sent under Bush and Obama.

The military weeds out the people who cant cit the mustard

Its as simple as that

 

[Mushroom]

And why are they doing it if the op is wrong , as you claim?

My guess is if they couldnt cut it in the military they had other personal problems that drove them to suicide

Maybe they realized they've been lied to and were tricked into joining for 'free college' --"welcome to the University of fucking Baghdad kid."

Look up how many Guard and Reserves got sent under Bush and Obama.

The military weeds out the people who cant cit the mustard

Its as simple as that

Uh-huh.

And when and how exactly do they do that?

 

[the other mike]

The military weeds out the people who cant cit the mustard

Its as simple as that

Yeah. Something to be real proud of.

 

[odanny]

Recently, an E-7 Green Beret was visiting some family member in a town in Illinois, and was in a bowling alley on a Saturday night, apparently alone, and didn't know a soul in the place, according to police. He pulled out his 9mm and started shooting, killing 4 people. Dude was a decorated veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, special forces Green Beret.

And is it required that people who shoot up places have to all be veterans?

Oh, but there is a connection with the location. You see, Webb's father was injured in a DUI accident a few months earlier, by an employee of the bar & grill they were all picking food up at.

But once again, to you all vets with PTSD are obviously walking guns just waiting to go off. I got it, you bought completely into that "Killer with PRDS" trope that has been going around since Vietnam.

But please, give me a seriously researched article showing what percentage of mass shooters and murderers are veterans. I know because I have looked, and find almost nothing but biased hack propaganda pieces. Here is one of the funniest from just a few months ago, that actually had me laughing when I first read it.

There’s no need to have any contact with the U.S. military in order to dress and act as if you’re in the military, as many mass-shooters do, some of them waging their own delusional wars against immigrants or other groups. But it is remarkable that at least 36% of U.S. mass shooters (and quite possibly more) have in fact been trained by the U.S. military.

Of course, he throws out all women automatically, and anybody over 59. And any not born in the US. Then you have this gem:

I’ve also deleted some of the shooting incidents, reducing the list from 121 to 106 shootings. I’ve done this, just as on past occasion, in order to be able to make an accurate comparison to the general population.

No explanation of who or why, just that he removed 15 cases, for reasons only his own to make the statistics come out as he liked.

I’ve also deleted one shooting that was an attack on the U.S. military by a foreign-born shooter, as it seems irrelevant to ask if that shooter had been in the U.S. military.

Hmmm, interesting. I wanted to look through his data, but it is no longer available. The original at Mother Jones was, but I find it strange that his is not anymore. But let's move on.

Looking at the 106 shootings in the remaining database, I’ve marked 38 of them as being committed by U.S. military veterans. In three cases, this indicates a veteran of JROTC, one of whom may or may not have had further participation in the military.

Really, JROTC? Three of them are in JROTC, therefore were "military"? Holy hell, why not include all that were in Scouts while you are at it, a "paramilitary organization".

And finally, his conclusion.

The result of all this is that, with this updated database, 36% of U.S. mass shooters (lone, male, 18-59) are veterans. If we leave out the three who are only veterans of JROTC, we still get 33% being veterans.

So in other words, after throwing out huge numbers of cases for his own often undisclosed purposes in order to make the data match what he wanted to see, he concluded that 36% of mass shooters were military.

At Least 36% of Mass Shooters have been Trained by the U.S. Military

CityWatch is published 24/7 with special e-news blasts on Monday and Thursday evening, with Extras as appropriate around special events such as elections or imp

www.citywatchla.com

But I can see you buy completely into that nonsense. And I am sure you will now be using this completely bogus "study" compiled in the most unscientific manner possible as proof that you are right.

David Swanson is an author, activist, journalist, and radio host. He is executive director of WorldBeyondWar.org and campaign coordinator for RootsAction.org. Swanson‘s books include War Is A Lie.

Nice to see the "We hate Veterans" movement is back. We have missed them since Vietnam.

Dude, no offense, but I have determined that you're just a garden variety idiot who also happens to be a veteran.

 

[Mac-7]

Something to say about weed comrade ?

Yeah, just say no

 

[bodecea]

Forever wars only benefit contractors, corporations, and politicians, and no one else. Almost never civilians, who die in numbers equal or far greater than the soldiers, and never the soldiers themselves, who, if they survive, have another war waiting to fight in the civilian world.

Perpetual War = Perpetual Commerce

And this does not factor in those PTSD deaths not classed as suicides, or those who snapped and started shooting, ending up in prison. That's not that uncommon anymore either. To say nothing of those who accidentally overdose, all while fighting PTSD.


The study finds that at least four times as many active duty personnel and war veterans of post-9/11 conflicts have died of suicide than in combat, as an estimated 30,177 have died by suicide as compared with the 7,057 killed in post-9/11 war operations. The report notes that the increasing rates of suicide for both veterans and active duty personnel are outpacing those of the general population - an alarming shift, as suicide rates among service members have historically been lower than suicide rates among the general population

2021 - Paper - High Suicide Rates | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

CRCs don't care.

 

[bodecea]

Many of those are not suicides.

Pat Tillman was murdered by Jews in the army Rangers for telling us the truth...

We are just so sitting here. We have no target. We took Kabul and Kandahar, and since then, we just sit around.

Pat Tillman was on to the truth, that 911 was a fraud, getting col tim osman aka "Osama" was "not a priority" as w admitted.

In afghan, when we arrived, three was an ongoing war between taliban and The Northern Alliance, armed and funded by IRAN.

Then W flipped them off with Axis of Evil. W deployed our troops to country A to ally with B to fight enemy C, and then flipped off ally B with our troops still there and the mission not accomplished....

Israel did not want TNA to win. Israel prefers Twliban in charge over an ally of Iran. W just said YES MASTER and sold out our afghan deployment (as if the actual deployment was not a total fraud and act of intentional treason, which it was)

If they wanted to off those behind 911, start in CIA hq

"Pat Tillman was murdered by Jews in the army Rangers..........."

Ok, you're a loony.

 

[bodecea]

How many of the seal team who "got bin laden" are still alive?


Zero.....

All of them. Many retired now.

 

[bodecea]

And why are they doing it if the op is wrong , as you claim?

My guess is if they couldnt cut it in the military they had other personal problems that drove them to suicide

Your guess, eh? Just wash your hands some more.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Forever wars only benefit contractors, corporations, and politicians, and no one else. Almost never civilians, who die in numbers equal or far greater than the soldiers, and never the soldiers themselves, who, if they survive, have another war waiting to fight in the civilian world.

Perpetual War = Perpetual Commerce

And this does not factor in those PTSD deaths not classed as suicides, or those who snapped and started shooting, ending up in prison. That's not that uncommon anymore either. To say nothing of those who accidentally overdose, all while fighting PTSD.


The study finds that at least four times as many active duty personnel and war veterans of post-9/11 conflicts have died of suicide than in combat, as an estimated 30,177 have died by suicide as compared with the 7,057 killed in post-9/11 war operations. The report notes that the increasing rates of suicide for both veterans and active duty personnel are outpacing those of the general population - an alarming shift, as suicide rates among service members have historically been lower than suicide rates among the general population

2021 - Paper - High Suicide Rates | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

Trump started no new wars.
Of course that doesnt fit your agenda.

I don't have an agenda, and I thank President Trump for not starting any new wars. In fact, if there is one single paradigm shift that results from a Trump presidency that I fully endorse and support, it is that these stupid and abhorrent wars Republicans like to start are not going to be as popular moving forward.

Yet every dem that has ever been in office has started one or more.
So why would that change now?

 

[Mac-7]

Your guess, eh? Just wash your hands some more.

Whatever that is supposed to mean

 

[Mac-7]

Something to be real proud of.

I’m not sure what that means

Pat Tillman was a great soldier

 

[the other mike]

Something to be real proud of.

I’m not sure what that means

Pat Tillman was a great soldier

You didn't know the word is he was
fragged* by our own guys ? ( ordered to be killed for affecting moral by opposing the Iraq war in 2004.) A hit was put on him basically.

Evidence Shows Pat Tillman Murdered According to Medical Experts

Pat Tillman died a true American hero. What has always been in question was how he died. According to evidence, some medical experts think he was murdered.

www.sportscasting.com

*fragged actually means killed by a grenade.