Our Kennedy.

[Oldstyle]

The "plan" was never even close to being implemented, Dude. Almost as soon as it was formulated Kennedy came to the conclusion that the people who had been telling him the war was going so well that we could pull out and let the South Vietnamese "mop up" were full of it!

Once again...there is ZERO evidence that JFK was going to pull troops out of South Vietnam if he hadn't been assassinated in 1963! He was just as adamant about stemming the spread of communism around the world and still believed the viability of the "domino theory". There is no way in the world that Kennedy was going to pull out and let South Vietnam go over to the communists...especially right before an upcoming election.

 

[Oldstyle]

Kennedy had his circle of friends. Mac was an adviser. JFK didn't know McNamara before he chose his cabinet. McNamara came from the private sector. He was president of the Ford Motor Company.

Why would Francis Bator, who had been President Johnson's Deputy National Security Adviser, lie to protect Kennedy? The Johnson people have always tried to drag JFK into LBJ' war.

Francis Bator:
"Professor Galbraith is correct that “there was a plan to withdraw US forces from Vietnam, beginning with the first thousand by December 1963, and almost all of the rest by the end of 1965…. President Kennedy had approved that plan. It was the actual policy of the United States on the day Kennedy died."

Did the official documents also lie to protect Kennedy??

Walkthrough - Vietnam in Late 1963

20 Nov 1963 - Honolulu Meeting Briefing Book, Part I. See also Part II.
The briefing books prepared for a Vietnam meeting in Honolulu reaffirmed the timetables for complete withdrawal from Vietnam, as well as the initial 1,000 main withdrawal, despite the recent coup in Vietnam.

24 Nov 1963 - Memorandum for the Record of a Meeting, Executive Office Building, Washington, November 24, 1963, 3 p.m.
Within two days of President Kennedy's death, on Sunday afternoon, President Johnson already began receiving advice that "we could not at this point or time give a particularly optimistic appraisal of the future" regarding Vietnam. President Johnson expressed dissatisfaction with the present course and particularly its emphasis on social reforms, and stated that "He was anxious to get along, win the war..."

26 Nov 1963 - National Security Action Memorandum No. 273
NSAM 273 was drafted while President Kennedy was still alive, though he never saw the draft. The final version was signed by President Johnson on the day after the Kennedy funeral, November 26. Concerning troop withdrawal, it reiterated the "objectives" of the Oct 2 announcement without noting the October 11 implementation in NSAM 263. The wording of a section on covert action against North Vietnam was loosened significantly (see following document).

26 Dec 1963 - 202-10002-10112: MILITARY OPERATIONS IN NORTH VIETNAM
This memo to General Taylor discusses proposed covert actions against North Vietnam which were generated in the wake of the Kennedy assassination, after having been alluded to in one paragraph from NSAM 273. These OPLAN 34 activities would have as one of their effects the Gulf of Tonkin incident, used by President Johnson to obtain Congressional approval for dramatically escalating the war.

Calling Robert McNamara an "adviser" doesn't come close to describing his relationship with JFK.

"According to Special Counsel Ted Sorensen, Kennedy regarded McNamara as the "star of his team, calling upon him for advice on a wide range of issues beyond national security, including business and economic matters."[15] McNamara became one of the few members of the Kennedy Administration to work and socialize with Kennedy, and he became so close to Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy that he served as a pallbearer at the younger Kennedy's funeral in 1968.[16] McNamara's specialty was to statistically analyze the efficiency of fighting the protracted Vietnam War, including how to maximize the use of defoliants, bombs, and cannon.[17]" Wikipedia

Was Francis Bator a pallbearer at Bobby Kennedy's funeral in 1968 too? Everyone knows LBJ and RFK were bosom buddies.

Two days after Kennedy was killed the strategy change drastically. LBJ expressed dissatisfaction with the present course and particularly its emphasis on social reforms, and stated that "He was anxious to get along, win the war..."

Did Khrushchev also lie to protect JFK when he wrote in his memoir, If Kennedy had lived, the two men could have brought peace to the world?

Did Khrushchev lie? Yes, I believe he did. He and Kennedy were hardly bosom buddies, especially after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Why would Khrushchev make that statement? To embellish his own importance.

 

[Bfgrn]

Calling Robert McNamara an "adviser" doesn't come close to describing his relationship with JFK.

"According to Special Counsel Ted Sorensen, Kennedy regarded McNamara as the "star of his team, calling upon him for advice on a wide range of issues beyond national security, including business and economic matters."[15] McNamara became one of the few members of the Kennedy Administration to work and socialize with Kennedy, and he became so close to Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy that he served as a pallbearer at the younger Kennedy's funeral in 1968.[16] McNamara's specialty was to statistically analyze the efficiency of fighting the protracted Vietnam War, including how to maximize the use of defoliants, bombs, and cannon.[17]" Wikipedia

Was Francis Bator a pallbearer at Bobby Kennedy's funeral in 1968 too? Everyone knows LBJ and RFK were bosom buddies.

Two days after Kennedy was killed the strategy change drastically. LBJ expressed dissatisfaction with the present course and particularly its emphasis on social reforms, and stated that "He was anxious to get along, win the war..."

Did Khrushchev also lie to protect JFK when he wrote in his memoir, If Kennedy had lived, the two men could have brought peace to the world?

Did Khrushchev lie? Yes, I believe he did. He and Kennedy were hardly bosom buddies, especially after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Why would Khrushchev make that statement? To embellish his own importance.

You clearly don't know history. You are fabricating your own version. Everyone is a liar, and has an agenda except you.

You don't even believe official documents, official meeting notes, LBJ's Deputy National Security Adviser.

Documents and tapes released under the JFK Records Act prove I am right. You are trying to project based on what you feel, not what is FACT.

 

[Oldstyle]

Was Francis Bator a pallbearer at Bobby Kennedy's funeral in 1968 too? Everyone knows LBJ and RFK were bosom buddies.

Two days after Kennedy was killed the strategy change drastically. LBJ expressed dissatisfaction with the present course and particularly its emphasis on social reforms, and stated that "He was anxious to get along, win the war..."

Did Khrushchev also lie to protect JFK when he wrote in his memoir, If Kennedy had lived, the two men could have brought peace to the world?

Did Khrushchev lie? Yes, I believe he did. He and Kennedy were hardly bosom buddies, especially after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Why would Khrushchev make that statement? To embellish his own importance.

You clearly don't know history. You are fabricating your own version. Everyone is a liar, and has an agenda except you.

You don't even believe official documents, official meeting notes, LBJ's Deputy National Security Adviser.

Documents and tapes released under the JFK Records Act prove I am right. You are trying to project based on what you feel, not what is FACT.

The people that are "projecting" are the people who take the order by Kennedy to look into the feasibility of withdrawing a thousand troops because he had been led to believe the situation in South Vietnam was so good...and state THAT order meant Kennedy intended to end the Vietnam war. The "fabrication" here is that Kennedy was about to abandon South Vietnam and let it be taken over by the communists and that was snuffed out by Oswald's bullets.

You've got a President who increased the number of troops from under a thousand to over 16,000 in just two years! You've got a President who authorized a total change of the use of those troops from advisers to participants. You've got a President who changed the very conduct of the war with widespread bombing, the use of napalm and defoliants. You've got a President who just went toe to toe with the Soviets over missiles in Cuba and Turkey and drew a line in the proverbial sand yet you think THAT President would have been willing to simply walk away from a conflict with the communists in Vietnam and let South Vietnam fall? If that WAS the case then why did we back the coup against the Diem brothers? Why did we replace the leadership in a country that we were about to abandon? You replace Diem because you realize that his government is so corrupt that you can't win a war with him as your partner.

 

[Bfgrn]

Did Khrushchev lie? Yes, I believe he did. He and Kennedy were hardly bosom buddies, especially after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Why would Khrushchev make that statement? To embellish his own importance.

You clearly don't know history. You are fabricating your own version. Everyone is a liar, and has an agenda except you.

You don't even believe official documents, official meeting notes, LBJ's Deputy National Security Adviser.

Documents and tapes released under the JFK Records Act prove I am right. You are trying to project based on what you feel, not what is FACT.

The people that are "projecting" are the people who take the order by Kennedy to look into the feasibility of withdrawing a thousand troops because he had been led to believe the situation in South Vietnam was so good...and state THAT order meant Kennedy intended to end the Vietnam war. The "fabrication" here is that Kennedy was about to abandon South Vietnam and let it be taken over by the communists and that was snuffed out by Oswald's bullets.

You've got a President who increased the number of troops from under a thousand to over 16,000 in just two years! You've got a President who authorized a total change of the use of those troops from advisers to participants. You've got a President who changed the very conduct of the war with widespread bombing, the use of napalm and defoliants. You've got a President who just went toe to toe with the Soviets over missiles in Cuba and Turkey and drew a line in the proverbial sand yet you think THAT President would have been willing to simply walk away from a conflict with the communists in Vietnam and let South Vietnam fall? If that WAS the case then why did we back the coup against the Diem brothers? Why did we replace the leadership in a country that we were about to abandon? You replace Diem because you realize that his government is so corrupt that you can't win a war with him as your partner.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

You have every right to your opinion, but the FACT remains that the policy in place the day Kennedy died was withdrawal of 1,000 advisers by the end of 1963 and full withdrawal by the end of 1965. Kennedy did NOT abandon that policy, and the responsibility for changes rest with his successor, NOT President Kennedy.



Jackie Kennedy’s Letter to Khrushchev: My Last Nights in the White House
By Jacqueline Kennedy


Washington, December 1, 1963.

Dear Mr. Chairman President,

I would like to thank you for sending Mr. Mikoyan as your representative to my husband’s funeral.

He looked so upset when he came through the line, and I was very moved.

I tried to give him a message for you that day—but as it was such a terrible day for me, I do not know if my words came out as I meant them to.

So now, in one of the last nights I will spend in the White House, in one of the last letters I will write on this paper at the White House, I would like to write you my message.

I send it only because I know how much my husband cared about peace, and how the relation between you and him was central to this care in his mind. He used to quote your words in some of his speeches-”In the next war the survivors will envy the dead.”

You and he were adversaries, but you were allied in a determination that the world should not be blown up. You respected each other and could deal with each other. I know that President Johnson will make every effort to establish the same relationship with you.

The danger which troubled my husband was that war might be started not so much by the big men as by the little ones.

While big men know the needs for self-control and restraint—little men are sometimes moved more by fear and pride. If only in the future the big men can continue to make the little ones sit down and talk, before they start to fight.

I know that President Johnson will continue the policy in which my husband so deeply believed—a policy of control and restraint—and he will need your help.

I send this letter because I know so deeply of the importance of the relationship which existed between you and my husband, and also because of your kindness, and that of Mrs. Khrushcheva in Vienna.

I read that she had tears in her eyes when she left the American Embassy in Moscow, after signing the book of mourning. Please thank her for that.

Sincerely,
Jacqueline Kennedy

 

[Oldstyle]

The FACT is that Kennedy increased the number of troops in South Vietnam from under a thousand when he took office to over sixteen thousand when he was killed. He never withdrew troops.

 

[Oldstyle]

As for Jackie Kennedy? Remind me why I should expect the thoughts of one of the more vacuous First Ladies in the history of our nation to sway my opinion on her late husband's politics? Jackie Kennedy didn't know her hubby was screwing most of the females in the Western hemisphere...but she's suddenly an expert on politics? Please...

 

[Bfgrn]

As for Jackie Kennedy? Remind me why I should expect the thoughts of one of the more vacuous First Ladies in the history of our nation to sway my opinion on her late husband's politics? Jackie Kennedy didn't know her hubby was screwing most of the females in the Western hemisphere...but she's suddenly an expert on politics? Please...

WOW, you really are a septic piece of shit aren't you.

Vacuous? Jackie Kennedy not only knew about Jack's womanizing, she tried to get him back by having affairs with William Holden and Fiat founder Gianni Agnelli.

 

[thanatos144]

As for Jackie Kennedy? Remind me why I should expect the thoughts of one of the more vacuous First Ladies in the history of our nation to sway my opinion on her late husband's politics? Jackie Kennedy didn't know her hubby was screwing most of the females in the Western hemisphere...but she's suddenly an expert on politics? Please...

WOW, you really are a septic piece of shit aren't you.

Vacuous? Jackie Kennedy not only knew about Jack's womanizing, she tried to get him back by having affairs with William Holden and Fiat founder Gianni Agnelli.

You really believe this shit don't you? Lmao

tapatalk post

 

[Bfgrn]

The FACT is that Kennedy increased the number of troops in South Vietnam from under a thousand when he took office to over sixteen thousand when he was killed. He never withdrew troops.

Kennedy increased the number of military personnel in Vietnam to over sixteen thousand. Then he had ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 troops by the end of 1963 and all troops by the end of 1965 on the day he died. He never sent in any divisions, didn't fabricate a wars act, lobby Congress or sign a resolution for the use of "conventional'' military force in Southeast Asia or Americanize the Vietnam war. To try to pin what happened after he died to him is ignorant and dishonest.

March 8, 1965 - The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam.

 

[Bfgrn]

As for Jackie Kennedy? Remind me why I should expect the thoughts of one of the more vacuous First Ladies in the history of our nation to sway my opinion on her late husband's politics? Jackie Kennedy didn't know her hubby was screwing most of the females in the Western hemisphere...but she's suddenly an expert on politics? Please...

WOW, you really are a septic piece of shit aren't you.

Vacuous? Jackie Kennedy not only knew about Jack's womanizing, she tried to get him back by having affairs with William Holden and Fiat founder Gianni Agnelli.

You really believe this shit don't you? Lmao

tapatalk post

It's the truth, why shouldn't I believe it?

And Jackie Kennedy at the ripe old age of 34 faced the grief of her husband's murder with steadiness, courage, grace and honor. She had the wherewithal to take an active role in planning the details of her husband's state funeral, which was based on Abraham Lincoln's. And when she returned from burying her husband, she held a birthday party for John Jr.

Jackie Kennedy showed America how to handle tragedy.

 

[thanatos144]

The FACT is that Kennedy increased the number of troops in South Vietnam from under a thousand when he took office to over sixteen thousand when he was killed. He never withdrew troops.

Kennedy increased the number of military personnel in Vietnam to over sixteen thousand. Then he had ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 troops by the end of 1963 and all troops by the end of 1965 on the day he died. He never sent in any divisions, didn't fabricate a wars act, lobby Congress or sign a resolution for the use of "conventional'' military force in Southeast Asia or Americanize the Vietnam war. To try to pin what happened after he died to him is ignorant and dishonest.

March 8, 1965 - The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam.

Still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

tapatalk post

 

[thanatos144]

WOW, you really are a septic piece of shit aren't you.

Vacuous? Jackie Kennedy not only knew about Jack's womanizing, she tried to get him back by having affairs with William Holden and Fiat founder Gianni Agnelli.

You really believe this shit don't you? Lmao

tapatalk post

It's the truth, why shouldn't I believe it?

And Jackie Kennedy at the ripe old age of 34 faced the grief of her husband's murder with steadiness, courage, grace and honor. She had the wherewithal to take an active role in planning the details of her husband's state funeral, which was based on Abraham Lincoln's. And when she returned from burying her husband, she held a birthday party for John Jr.

Jackie Kennedy showed America how to handle tragedy.

She was a weak woman who should have divorced her whoring husband. Much like the gutless Hillary Clinton should have done.

tapatalk post

 

[thanatos144]

Of course if you did write a divorce JFK she probably in the dead like Teddys secretary

tapatalk post

 

[Bfgrn]

The FACT is that Kennedy increased the number of troops in South Vietnam from under a thousand when he took office to over sixteen thousand when he was killed. He never withdrew troops.

Kennedy increased the number of military personnel in Vietnam to over sixteen thousand. Then he had ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 troops by the end of 1963 and all troops by the end of 1965 on the day he died. He never sent in any divisions, didn't fabricate a wars act, lobby Congress or sign a resolution for the use of "conventional'' military force in Southeast Asia or Americanize the Vietnam war. To try to pin what happened after he died to him is ignorant and dishonest.

March 8, 1965 - The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam.

Still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

tapatalk post

I believe in FACTS. That is what I presented. If you can bring proof that they are not FACTS, have at it...

 

[Bfgrn]

You really believe this shit don't you? Lmao

tapatalk post

It's the truth, why shouldn't I believe it?

And Jackie Kennedy at the ripe old age of 34 faced the grief of her husband's murder with steadiness, courage, grace and honor. She had the wherewithal to take an active role in planning the details of her husband's state funeral, which was based on Abraham Lincoln's. And when she returned from burying her husband, she held a birthday party for John Jr.

Jackie Kennedy showed America how to handle tragedy.

She was a weak woman who should have divorced her whoring husband. Much like the gutless Hillary Clinton should have done.

tapatalk post

You right wing scum are sub human slime.

 

[thanatos144]

Kennedy increased the number of military personnel in Vietnam to over sixteen thousand. Then he had ordered the withdrawal of 1,000 troops by the end of 1963 and all troops by the end of 1965 on the day he died. He never sent in any divisions, didn't fabricate a wars act, lobby Congress or sign a resolution for the use of "conventional'' military force in Southeast Asia or Americanize the Vietnam war. To try to pin what happened after he died to him is ignorant and dishonest.

March 8, 1965 - The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam.

Still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

tapatalk post

I believe in FACTS. That is what I presented. If you can bring proof that they are not FACTS, have at it...

You bring night facts what you bring is a myth created by the media and Democrats the entire Kennedy family are full of rapist murderers and rum runners the equivalent of a drug dealer

tapatalk post

 

[thanatos144]

It's the truth, why shouldn't I believe it?

And Jackie Kennedy at the ripe old age of 34 faced the grief of her husband's murder with steadiness, courage, grace and honor. She had the wherewithal to take an active role in planning the details of her husband's state funeral, which was based on Abraham Lincoln's. And when she returned from burying her husband, she held a birthday party for John Jr.

Jackie Kennedy showed America how to handle tragedy.

She was a weak woman who should have divorced her whoring husband. Much like the gutless Hillary Clinton should have done.

tapatalk post

You right wing scum are sub human slime.

No we just like to treat women as actual human beings unlike you left wing

tapatalk post

 

[thanatos144]

Camelot never f****** happened

tapatalk post

 

[Bfgrn]

Still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

tapatalk post

I believe in FACTS. That is what I presented. If you can bring proof that they are not FACTS, have at it...

You bring night facts what you bring is a myth created by the media and Democrats the entire Kennedy family are full of rapist murderers and rum runners the equivalent of a drug dealer

tapatalk post

WHAT language is that sentence? Your ignorance is showing.