Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

In hindsight, one thing that helped a lot is that I attended Catholic school, and we were taught both religion and up-to-the-minute science--which included evolution. One question that was posed for us to consider is whether we thought the Bible was used to teach youngsters science, or something else. If Noah's Ark was not to teach us the entire planet was covered by water, what were the other points. A response that has stuck with me all this time is that new beginnings after catastrophes don't work. The same problems that were washed away popped back up.

When we were studying the Commandments we were given a verse something to the effect that sometimes life is hard to test how willing we truly are to keep the Commandments.

In Kings, God being found in the little things has made all the difference. Perhaps the biggest influence has been the Beatitudes.

It wasn't one big thing, just a bunch of little things along the way.

I truly get how the Bible can throw us curves. The biggest one it threw me when I was a teenager, was the week after the Sunday gospel was about Jesus was scolding the scribes for being such hypocrites, and woe to all of them. That Friday, I received an award for an essay I had submitted. The Award was the Scribe & Quill. Naturally I was too embarrassed to tell my parents, and hid the certificate. It wasn't until years later I learned the Scribes of Jesus' day were lawyers--not teenagers who wrote essays. That was a great lesson in learning that not everything in the Bible is about me.

Did you know that that Jews actually debate if god is even real? They question if god really spoke to Moses. They question if that’s a fact or just a story.

And they don’t believe Jesus was the son of god.

Now I’m sure hissedic jews probably take every word literally but many Jews question if the god of the Bible (Old Testament) is even real. Or if those are just stories. What do you think?

 

[DOTR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ DOTR, et al,

REFERENCE BLUF:


(ACKNOWLEDGEMENT)

I will assume my references are incorrect and default to your superior knowledge.

I was wrong.

I should have known better when I typed it. (I did not double check my source.)

I apologize.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not intended that way and I don’t have any superior knowledge. I happened to have read and posted an article here recently on the Hubble Ultra Deep Field is how I remembered that.
I was agreeing the universe is huge. But that still doesn’t imply extraterrestrial life.

 

[DOTR]

True. No confirmation of life on Mars as of yet. But not all of us people "have such blind faith in extraterrestrial life" or "it’s ability to destroy Christianity." There are interesting aspects to consider nonetheless. The probability of life existing somewhere out there is one. The Biblical references to it all being created for man's dominion (or humans "in His image") is another. If superior (non-human) aliens suddenly arrived one day, then at the very least they should have the decency to supply us with new Bibles. (lol)

Colossians 1:16 ESV
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Bible in Basic English
I have made the earth, forming man on it: by my hands the heavens have been stretched out, and all the stars put in their ordered places.

I think the probability of life existing out there is zero. But even if we discovered aliens it wouldn’t hurt Christianity any more than discovering the New World did.
In fact the Universe would suddenly become tremendously more fascinating.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think the probability of life existing out there is zero. But even if we discovered aliens it wouldn’t hurt Christianity any more than discovering the New World did.
In fact the Universe would suddenly become tremendously more fascinating.

But even if we discovered aliens it wouldn’t hurt Christianity any more than discovering the New World did.

.
no, and just ask the native americans how pleased they were in their newfound relationship with christians after they "arrived" ...

 

[LittleNipper]

.
no, and just ask the native americans how pleased they were in their newfound relationship with christians after they "arrived" ...

Yes, the natives were upset because they could no longer cut out beating human hearts and squeeze out the blood upon their altars. That is not to say that other problems were not brought to the New World; however, one must totally realize that all the Conquistadors and arriving settlers were not Christian in any sense of the word. Many were very much secularists and downright atheists. They went looking for loot and were little more than pirates.

 

[LittleNipper]

Psalm 104:5 ESV
He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

(concrete footers perhaps? lol)

What is meant by that is that the earth is not just moving all over anywhere in space. The earth's movements are consistent and follow a set course.

 

[Meriweather]

Did you know that that Jews actually debate if god is even real? They question if god really spoke to Moses. They question if that’s a fact or just a story.

Yes, I have read some of that commentary. Even in Jesus' day Scribes held no belief in the after life. Remember, having experienced God myself, I know He is. I am the first to say and agree experiences may widely differ, My own thought is that Moses did have his own experience with God, which did waken him to God is. My experiences had clearly defined, very narrow parameters. Therefore, I tend to look for those parameters in regards to Moses. It is my opinion that because of his experiences, Moses had a tendency to broaden the original parameters. I have no way of knowing, of course. In many instances Moses may have been greatly inspired by God, but that is different from an actual experience.

 

[Meriweather]

And they don’t believe Jesus was the son of god.

Jews believe One God and that God is not a human being. Therefore the concept of Trinity is a terrible anathema to them. Jews cannot get past the idea three is one. Christians see one, a One who is so different from us that as Creator, His very words hold power, and that unlike we who say, "I'll be with you in spirit" when we can't be present physically, God's spirit is actually with us. Ever play with the thought of what additional dimensions might look like? They all tend to collapse back into three dimensions which is all we can understand. Same with Trinity. For Jews, it collapses back into One. For the LDS it breaks off into three. As Christians we can sometimes catch a quick glimmer which instantly eludes us. Jews believe in God and the power of God--and that is enough.

 

[Meriweather]

Now I’m sure hissedic jews probably take every word literally but many Jews question if the god of the Bible (Old Testament) is even real. Or if those are just stories. What do you think?

What is the theme, what is the lesson in each story? God is real, but that does not mean humans stop being human. I am of the opinion the story of Esau and Jacob is a great example of this. History is written by the winner, and the winner is this case was Jacob. Jacob's story offers excuse after excuse of how he and his descendants had the right to Esau's inheritance.

Meanwhile, I think God can work with whatever happens. The custom of the day said He was to work with Esau. What might have happened if Jacob was obedient to this? Something worse...Or, something even better?

I think God is, indeed, in our midst. Biblical accounts do a lot, they do the best possible. There is much to explore in the Bible, much to wonder about.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Psalm 104:5 ESV
He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.

(concrete footers perhaps? lol)

What is meant by that is that the earth is not just moving all over anywhere in space. The earth's movements are consistent and follow a set course.

But of course. Of course!

That it should not be removed forever. The language is, of course, poetical, but the fact is none the less wonderful: the earth is so placed in space that it remains as stable as if it were a fixture. The several motions of our planet are carried on so noiselessly and evenly that, as far as we are concerned, all things are as permanent and peaceful as if the old notion of its resting upon pillars were literally true. With what delicacy has the great Artificer poised our globe! What power must there be in that hand which has caused so vast a body to know its orbit, and to move so smoothly in it! What engineer can save every part of his machinery from an occasional jar, jerk, or friction? yet to our great world in its complicated motions no such thing has ever occurred. "O Lord, my God, thou art very great."

Just pay no attention to following. None!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ DOTR, et al,

BLUF: I thought you comment was "spot on." I did not take it to be adverserial.

I was agreeing the universe is huge. But that still doesn’t imply extraterrestrial life.

(COMMENT)

Huge, yes...

I agree, it does not imply "extraterrestrial life." But IF the prerequisite for life does not include intervention by a Supernatural Entity or Process, THEN the greater the size of the universe, the greater the likelihood for life.

It is an exercise in probability analysis.

There are as many as 100 billion stars in the Milky Way. “Forbes says that less than six billion stars may have Earth-like planets in our Galaxy.” I don't think I'll know in my lifetime if there are any planets with life as we know it to be.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Grumblenuts]

Mac-7's sig line:

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

I gather that both Mac-7 and this alleged god feel so compelled to declare me and like minded atheists corrupt, our deeds vile, and us all no-good-doers.. that it needs to be publicly trumpeted loud and often.

I must be reading that all wrong. "God is love!"

 

[sealybobo]

Mac-7's sig line:

I gather that both Mac-7 and this alleged god feel so compelled to declare me and like minded atheists corrupt, our deeds vile, and us all no-good-doers.. that it needs to be publicly trumpeted loud and often.

I must be reading that all wrong. "God is love!"

Great point. Meriweather?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The earth's movements are consistent and follow a set course.

False. Earth's orbit has been and will be, several times throughout its history, perturbed by all manner on objects floating around and passing through the solar system.

Do you ever say ANYTHING about ANY scientific topic that is correct?

 

[BreezeWood]

Mac-7's sig line:

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

I gather that both Mac-7 and this alleged god feel so compelled to declare me and like minded atheists corrupt, our deeds vile, and us all no-good-doers.. that it needs to be publicly trumpeted loud and often.

I must be reading that all wrong. "God is love!"

I must be reading that all wrong. "God is love!"

.
is that what they believed in the 1st century, oh, those people were fed to the lions and when they were no more the feeders did them a favor and wrought a book in their name in the 4th century, the christian bible - and can it be changed, not on your life and they even refer to it as the living bible ... really, they snicker among themselves their book was dead before the ink dried.

too bad and it is they that represents the misgivings of grumblenuts but who is there to say otherwise.

 

[Meriweather]

Great point. Meriweather?

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Try reading it as a list. The fool not only says there is no God, the fool is corrupt, the fool's deeds are vile; the fool does not do good.

Is there a verse that addresses the following: People who say there is no God, who are upright, whose deeds are pleasing, who do what is honorable....? I would propose that Jesus noted that those not against, are for. These people are for (and go about living) all things God is for. I think God sees these as people who are for Him, not against Him.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Try reading it as a list. The fool not only says there is no God, the fool is corrupt, the fool's deeds are vile; the fool does not do good.

How about reading it as though the inspired word of "God"? The rest "just commentary"?

The Fool Says in His Heart, “There is no God”: Atheism in the Bible and in Late Antiquity | Houston Christian University

See also: Prove to Me That God Exists By Craig A. Evans The Bible is nothing if not a small library of books very much focused on God. God is presented as t ...

hbu.edu

I see it! I see it now! God is love!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ et al,

(OTHER CONTRIBUTIONS supra)

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

The Fool Says in His Heart, “There is no God”: Atheism in the Bible and in Late Antiquity | Houston Christian University

See also: Prove to Me That God Exists By Craig A. Evans The Bible is nothing if not a small library of books very much focused on God. God is presented as t ...

hbu.edu

​

(COMMENT)

I see most of the discussion as being "faith-based" (a priori) wherein the ontological argument is influenced by the scale, magnitude and complexity of the universe --- the physical laws and say, IF what we see is true, THEN the Supreme Being must exist.

I don't agree with this a priori idea, but I recognize it is out there.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[BreezeWood]

.
more love

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 2 John 1:9-11

there are forgeries on nearly every page of the christian bible they are not innocent for the crimes who stand against their reversion.

their book is dead, not the religion of antiquity. nor how to refine by it the spiritual content for each individual. Flora is the oldest and most refined.

 

[Grumblenuts]

To its credit:
Flora

does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God.

Does not dress like a fool. Lives as though "he" does not exist.

The fools are not limited to those who openly state, “ There is no God”; they include those who profess belief in God but live as though he does not exist.

Then there's all of us who never say "There is no God" yet somehow manage to live fully and peacefully as though none exist. That fact has demonstrably bothered the piss out of most Bible thumpers from day one.. Oh well. Try not judging lest ye be judged. Trying doing unto others exactly as you would have them do unto you.