Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Grumblenuts]

“God is love, God is forgiving” is clearly not reflected in the Gods that humans invented as a part of the Bibles.

Perhaps you do not know the Bible all that well?

The Lord Hates.. sure,.. but, c'mon,.. you know, it's all a big misunderstanding!
You've been reading it all wrong! It's all just hyperbole, exaggeration, rhetorical, "electing love". So he hates "things",.. fer chistsakes, not people,.. no, never!!

“‘Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?’ says the Lord. ‘Yet Jacob I have loved; but Esau I have hated'” (Malachi 1:2, 3), it is not necessarily teaching us that God “hates” anybody.

Luke 14: 26: “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”

"a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren”, " I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house”

Wait,.. did you really just say "not necessarily"? Whaa?

With Perfect Hatred by Dan Barker (July 1991) - Freedom From Religion Foundation

By Dan Barker After Bill Lueders' well-written story about me ran in the Milwaukee Journal ["Wisconsin" Magazine, July 28, 1991], I received a lot of...

ffrf.org

The 10 Worst Old Testament Verses by Dan Barker - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Visit this site to view Freethought Today online, starting with 2018. By Dan Barker While writing GOD: The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fic...

ffrf.org

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ Grumblenuts, et al,

Lots of animals use provided tools.

"beings like us that know and create...."

Tool use by non-humans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(COMMENT)

My favorite animal is the Sea Otter, swimming on their back cracking urchin on rocks to eat.

But using tools does not, in and by itself, put an animal in a special class. Oddly enough, one of the biggest characteristics as an indicator of sentients is the belief (or disbelief) in a higher being.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But those are not scientific, testable ideas. Apply the same standards to that as you do the magical nonsense from the bible.

I am not your assistant. Juuuuust make your point.

Sorry, that didn't make sense. I didn't ask you questions. I gave you advice.

 

[BreezeWood]

P

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ BreezeWood, et al,

​

✦ Including a sense of perception.
✦ Including a sense of self-awareness.
✦ Including a capacity for sensation or feeling.

roco, are the above a reference to physiology.

(COMMENT)

They are all part of the mental capacity associated with an undamaged (normal functions of living organisms) human "beings like us that know and create...." (Taken from "ding's" criteria).

Most Respectfully,
R

They are all part of the mental capacity associated with an undamaged (normal functions of living organisms) human "beings like us that know and create...." (Taken from "ding's" criteria).

.
not sure there was an answer in your reply and if it pertained to all beings (equally) and not just humans - and as always to include Flora.

it is not the physiology, it is the metaphysical spiritual content that is the representation of the particular being that is being identified proven by its obvious distinct physiological evolution. as well pertaining to both physical and spiritual change. and follows a set pastern of "religion". the religion of antiquity.

 

[BreezeWood]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ Grumblenuts, et al,

Lots of animals use provided tools.

"beings like us that know and create...."

Tool use by non-humans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(COMMENT)

My favorite animal is the Sea Otter, swimming on their back cracking urchin on rocks to eat.

But using tools does not, in and by itself, put an animal in a special class. Oddly enough, one of the biggest characteristics as an indicator of sentients is the belief (or disbelief) in a higher being.

Most Respectfully,
R

But using tools does not, in and by itself, put an animal in a special class. Oddly enough, one of the biggest characteristics as an indicator of sentients is the belief (or disbelief) in a higher being.

.
sad, a bing clone -

no, they do not look to a higher being ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

After 2,500 Studies, It's Time to Declare Animal Sentience Proven (Op-Ed)

After decades of conclusive research, it is overdue for society to recognize the sentience of nonhuman animals.

www.livescience.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

Plant perception (physiology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Meriweather]

it's all a big misunderstanding!

Are you aware that Hebrew only has seventeen percent of the number of words in the English language? Therefore, there are many instances where the Hebrew 'hate' translates better as either less favored or not the one chosen for a specific task.

Sometimes it appears you may be trying to pick a fight with me. The reason it won't work is that I am quite comfortable with the level of your Biblical education. You are satisfied that God hates, so no reason to proceed further, true?

 

[DOTR]

If I were god I'd have life everywhere. Not just one place in the universe.

I think I see the problem.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ sealybobo, DOTR, et al,

BLUF: Does it matter?

When you die, what difference will it make if the universe is teeming with life?

When you die, what difference will it make if there is no deity? It will be lights out as if you never existed at all.

When you die, what are the chances that humanity had a correct vision of the deity? What kind of deity would an extra-terrestrial envision? And what would make our beliefs any more credible than their beliefs?

If I were god I'd have life everywhere. Not just one place in the universe.

I think I see the problem.

(COMMENT)

Philosophically, these are intriguing questions. These questions are good tests of our logic and critical thinking skills → when we ponder them. But, if there is a Supreme Being, what line of thought did you follow to assume we know even the slightest about what the Master of the Universe thinks (or if the Creator thinks at all)?

But I can't even begin to imagine what a Super Being must be in terms of raw power, just to run the Solar System; let alone the Galaxy, or the Local Group galactic group (estimated to be about 10 million light-years across). You guys have much more brain-power than I have to imagine what the Supreme Being must be like to be that which set every little detail in motion. And the universe that the Supreme Being is so vast that there are stars so far away that its light has not, nor will ever, have enough time to reach Earth. The farthest we've been able to see is a star 55 million light-years away (SDSS J 122952.66 +112227.8). And if we use that for the radius of the known universe, we are talking about an inside surface area of the sphere to be ≈ 38,000M square light-years and a volume of the known universe to be just under 700,000M cubic light-years.

______________________________________
Boyajian's Star and WTF Star, and designated KIC 8462852, is anomalous. It has been noticed to have lost over 20% of its brightness. There is a hypothesis out there that suggests that it is a Dysons Swarm.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[DOTR]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ sealybobo, DOTR, et al,

BLUF: Does it matter?

When you die, what difference will it make if the universe is teeming with life?

When you die, what difference will it make if there is no deity? It will be lights out as if you never existed at all.

When you die, what are the chances that humanity had a correct vision of the deity? What kind of deity would an extra-terrestrial envision? And what would make our beliefs any more credible than their beliefs?

If I were god I'd have life everywhere. Not just one place in the universe.

I think I see the problem.

(COMMENT)

Philosophically, these are intriguing questions. These questions are good tests of our logic and critical thinking skills → when we ponder them. But, if there is a Supreme Being, what line of thought did you follow to assume we know even the slightest about what the Master of the Universe thinks (or if the Creator thinks at all)?

But I can't even begin to imagine what a Super Being must be in terms of raw power, just to run the Solar System; let alone the Galaxy, or the Local Group galactic group (estimated to be about 10 million light-years across). You guys have much more brain-power than I have to imagine what the Supreme Being must be like to be that which set every little detail in motion. And the universe that the Spreme Being is so vast that there are stars so far away that its light has not, nor will ever, have enough time to reach Earth. The farthest we've been able to see is a star 55 million light-years away. And if we use that for the radius of the known universe, we are talking about an inside surface area of the sphere to be ≈ 55M square light-years and an area of the known universe to be just under 700,000 cubic light-years.

______________________________________
Boyajian's Star and WTF Star, and designated KIC 8462852, is anomalous. It has been noticed to have lost over 20% of its brightness. There is a hypothesis out there that suggests that it is a Dysons Swarm.

Most Respectfully,
R

Its common when you meet these atheists pontificating on how far God falls short of their own abilities to run a universe. Its not even new. Poetry from the oldest book in the Bible answered a sealyboo millennia ago...

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?

 

[Grumblenuts]

it's all a big misunderstanding!

Are you aware that Hebrew only has seventeen percent of the number of words in the English language? Therefore, there are many instances where the Hebrew 'hate' translates better as either less favored or not the one chosen for a specific task.

Sometimes it appears you may be trying to pick a fight with me. The reason it won't work is that I am quite comfortable with the level of your Biblical education.

I too feel quite comfortable regardless. Nothing's personal until one lowers themself to attempting character assassination of their interlocutors rather than stick to engaging their words. Indeed, that's how one exposes themself as not only a loser but a sore one to boot. [<Note: though only English, there still may exist double meanings to worry about,.. triples often,.. quadruples even,.. sometimes,.. intentional ones,.. Oh my!]

You are satisfied that God hates, so no reason to proceed further, true?

I did proceed further, your response being so perfectly predictable. You have yet to begin tackling Dan Barker's arguments and massive collection:

With Perfect Hatred by Dan Barker (July 1991) - Freedom From Religion Foundation

By Dan Barker After Bill Lueders' well-written story about me ran in the Milwaukee Journal ["Wisconsin" Magazine, July 28, 1991], I received a lot of...

ffrf.org

The 10 Worst Old Testament Verses by Dan Barker - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Visit this site to view Freethought Today online, starting with 2018. By Dan Barker While writing GOD: The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fic...

ffrf.org

Engage or run away. Either way, I'm not to blame for your shortcomings.

 

[Grumblenuts]

But I can't even begin to imagine what a Super Being must be in terms of raw power, just to run the Solar System; let alone the Galaxy, or the Local Group galactic group (estimated to be about 10 million light-years across). You guys have much more brain-power than I have to imagine what the Supreme Being must be like to be that which set every little detail in motion. And the universe that the Spreme Being is so vast that there are stars so far away that its light has not, nor will ever, have enough time to reach Earth. The farthest we've been able to see is a star 55 million light-years away. And if we use that for the radius of the known universe, we are talking about an inside surface area of the sphere to be ≈ 55M square light-years and an area of the known universe to be just under 700,000 cubic light-years.

Indeed. "These questions are good tests of our logic and critical thinking skills → when we ponder them." So we should perhaps apply Occam's Razor: "entities should not be multiplied without necessity" or "the simplest solution is most likely the right one" first used, ironically enough, "for simplicity to defend the idea of divine miracles."

Well, I'm sorry, but while miracles may seem "the simplest solution" to many (most?), they've never struck me as such. Whenever witnessing magicians perform their tricks I just want to know how they do them. Of course, they want everyone to simply think it's all "magic." A good show. Great entertainment. Not so simple for those raised like me. I don't like being played for a fool or suckered. It often just seems arrogant and meanspirited. I want to see the trick(s) replayed in slow motion with all the hidden bits exposed. Only then can I begin feeling appreciative.

So here you paint gods as workers of vast, super complex magic tricks. Choosing not believe in such gods is clearly then "the simplest solution." Nothing logically changes when a sealyboro ponders aloud about what he might do in their stead. He's just enjoying a thought experiment based upon the popular notion. The exact same analysis applies to quantum mechanics gone wild with all its "particles" that aren't really "particles" with their infinite "fields" now emanating from each and every one. Utter, complete nonsense. Call me when you've seen an electron, let alone a gluon or tackysprinkle. Until then, I'm going with a vastly simpler theory requiring no suspension of disbelief or magic.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not to blame for your shortcomings.

Thank you. That is very kind as I have many.

 

[sealybobo]

.
bing said he works as an engineer on an oil rig in the middle of the gulf of mexico and thought bp got a bad rep for their oil spill.

* is that money worth making ...


- true capitalism is having a home, farm and 3 accouts at the brokarage firm and recieving the full $1200.00 ck from the gov't.

I would work for an oil company

 

[sealybobo]

“God is love, God is forgiving” is clearly not reflected in the Gods that humans invented as a part of the Bibles. I would point out that the gods are immoral and capricious. The Noah fable for one example depicts angry and vindictive Gods. As Gods are a human invention, it is not surprising that the gods exhibit all the human attributes of mankind and we see this consistently throughout the Bible.

I would not be so quick to categorize believers as necessarily having “joy”. I see a great many believers as fearful and cowering before their gods. Fear is a powerful motivational tool and one used historically by Christianity. Religions don’t coerce their adherents via promises of free thinking and individualistic expression, they use fear. I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine. The concept only derives from Christianity using fear to coerce behavior. What better way for an elite ruling class to coerce conformance from a population than to threaten them with such things as burning flesh, eternal damnation and eternal pain

I think that link I provided earlier takes you to a website that gives a reply to the 30 main things theists say. God is love is one of them.

No, god is not love. Love is love.

Did you hear in Egypt this lesbian activist committed “suicide” in jail. The conservative religious run media said thats what homosexualism leads to. Suicide. Evil. Bad. Wrong.

And American religious people believe that too. So if they are wrong about homosexuality maybe they’re wrong about the Jesus story. Maybe they swallowed it but I can’t

 

[sealybobo]

Thank you. That is very kind as I have many.

I love a lot of religious women

 

[sealybobo]

Perhaps you do not know the Bible all that well?

You see, you questioned Christianity too I’m sure, i hope, and it seems like ultimately it must be one thing you can point to where it hit you. The thing you read that convinced you the whole things not made up. What was it?

 

[sealybobo]

I think I see the problem.

Actually, there is was or will be life everywhere eventually. Not every star but enough.

we think, know or believe there was life on Mars. Has that been confirmed? And if it is will that shake your faith?

There might be life in europa.

In cosmic terms humans will last for a blip. Will we survive longer than dinosaurs or trilobites did? Why did god go through all that suffering before he made this world for us?

And you think we are the only planet that will ever exist in the entire universe? This is the problem with theists. Jesus is so easy to swallow but science not so much

 

[sealybobo]

RE: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist
⁜→ sealybobo, DOTR, et al,

BLUF: Does it matter?

When you die, what difference will it make if the universe is teeming with life?

When you die, what difference will it make if there is no deity? It will be lights out as if you never existed at all.

When you die, what are the chances that humanity had a correct vision of the deity? What kind of deity would an extra-terrestrial envision? And what would make our beliefs any more credible than their beliefs?



(COMMENT)

Philosophically, these are intriguing questions. These questions are good tests of our logic and critical thinking skills → when we ponder them. But, if there is a Supreme Being, what line of thought did you follow to assume we know even the slightest about what the Master of the Universe thinks (or if the Creator thinks at all)?

But I can't even begin to imagine what a Super Being must be in terms of raw power, just to run the Solar System; let alone the Galaxy, or the Local Group galactic group (estimated to be about 10 million light-years across). You guys have much more brain-power than I have to imagine what the Supreme Being must be like to be that which set every little detail in motion. And the universe that the Supreme Being is so vast that there are stars so far away that its light has not, nor will ever, have enough time to reach Earth. The farthest we've been able to see is a star 55 million light-years away (SDSS J 122952.66 +112227.8). And if we use that for the radius of the known universe, we are talking about an inside surface area of the sphere to be ≈ 38,000M square light-years and a volume of the known universe to be just under 700,000M cubic light-years.

______________________________________
Boyajian's Star and WTF Star, and designated KIC 8462852, is anomalous. It has been noticed to have lost over 20% of its brightness. There is a hypothesis out there that suggests that it is a Dysons Swarm.

Most Respectfully,

Seems to me there are four types of people.

A. Good religious people who want to go to heaven

B. Bad people who use religion.

C. Good People who don’t believe

D. Bad people who don’t believe