Oklahoma approves largest single-day commutation in US history

[OldLady]

Actually, no, it isn’t just their own problem unless they are wealthy enough to retire to their homes, keep up with bills, and veg in their homes, absent of a spouse or kids, never to emerge. Otherwise the minute they interact with either of those, or the outside world, it then involves others.

I'm not advocating for people shooting up in the streets.

Maybe instead of making drugs legal, we should just stop throwing addicts in jail. It is poor man's rehab around here and let me tell ya, it doesn't work. Drug Court works a lot better but it's expensive.

The addicts get thrown in jail because of public intoxication or possession.
So if drugs are still illegal, most would still be thrown in jail.

No, the way it works is, rather than jail if an addict is arrested (and often it's for theft so they can buy drugs) the Court sentences them to a strictly monitored and intensive drug rehab program and if they misstep they spend a weekend in jail; if they misstep twice they're in jail to serve their sentence. We have quite a large community in recovery around here that has struggled through drug court, stayed out of jail and kicked their addiction all at the same time. It's good to see.
How does that sound?

I would imagine you have heard of many that followed in their parents footsteps. And of their parents usage, how it affected them.

Sometimes. Not as many as you are probably thinking. More times than I can count, grandparents stepped in to keep the kids safe. This is a very rural, economically depressed area that is within spitting distance of Canada and a coastline that has invited smuggling since it was settled a couple hundred years ago. We had a full blown opiate epidemic twenty years before it hit the southern part of the state where the legislators live--and then it suddenly became a "concern." It started with prescription oxycontin and lots of people with very little money. Some got hooked and wanted more, and people who had a script figured out they could make a tidy profit selling what they had left over and then folks tried it recreationally and liked it and the kids got into it and then....the best shit was coming from Canada for years, then when they put the brakes on that, the heroin started coming up from New York and Massachusetts and it still is.

 

[TNHarley]

I'm not advocating for people shooting up in the streets.

And your imagined legislation would insure they don’t, how? Do you suggest locking them into their homes, alone? Home delivery for the drugs when they need them again?

Umm no. Just legalize it and regulate it.
If they go off the deep end, it's their own fault. Just like with alcohol..
We legalized alcohol and alcohol related offenses and addicts shot down. Something to consider.

And if regulated, there will still be a black market out there for it, so they can get around regulations, along with the taxes hat would eventually ensue.

Yes, just like moonshine.
But if taxes stayed down low enough and made the prices competitive, the black market would cease. Or at least slow way down.
Keeping them illegal keeps them cheap. And keeps them cut so people OD easier.

Regulation would keep them from feeding their habit as they psychologically or physiologically need. Just as there is still a black market for weed, opiates, and moonshine, there would still be one for other drugs.

Making is legal, and cost competitive, would make it harder to get?

 

[TNHarley]

Drugs should be legal
What people put in their body is their own problem. There is no reasonable objection to it.

Actually, no, it isn’t just their own problem unless they are wealthy enough to retire to their homes, keep up with bills, and veg in their homes, absent of a spouse or kids, never to emerge. Otherwise the minute they interact with either of those, or the outside world, it then involves others.

I'm not advocating for people shooting up in the streets.

And your imagined legislation would insure they don’t, how? Do you suggest locking them into their homes, alone? Home delivery for the drugs when they need them again?

Umm no. Just legalize it and regulate it.
If they go off the deep end, it's their own fault. Just like with alcohol..
We legalized alcohol and alcohol related offenses and addicts shot down. Something to consider.

Making it difficult to get is one way of limiting the number of addicts, TN. I don't advocate being able to walk into Rite Aid and buy heroin the way I can Budweiser.

The drug market thrives while your logic dies.
Call me Shakespeare

 

[TNHarley]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

 

[OldLady]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

 

[TNHarley]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

You mean how the govt gives junkies heroine?
While I dont agree with the govt supplying drugs to junkies, they report a 75 percent cut of heroine use.
Is that what you were referring to? Lol
The UK's Controversial Heroin Treatment Program

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Drugs should be legal
What people put in their body is their own problem. There is no reasonable objection to it.

Actually, no, it isn’t just their own problem unless they are wealthy enough to retire to their homes, keep up with bills, and veg in their homes, absent of a spouse or kids, never to emerge. Otherwise the minute they interact with either of those, or the outside world, it then involves others.

I'm not advocating for people shooting up in the streets.

Maybe instead of making drugs legal, we should just stop throwing addicts in jail. It is poor man's rehab around here and let me tell ya, it doesn't work. Drug Court works a lot better but it's expensive.

It's not that simple. Addicts commit real crime

 

[OldLady]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

You mean how the govt gives junkies heroine?
While I dont agree with the govt supplying drugs to junkies, they report a 75 percent cut of heroine use.
Is that what you were referring to? Lol
The UK's Controversial Heroin Treatment Program

If it works that well, TN, why do you oppose it?

 

[TNHarley]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

 

[OldLady]

Drugs should be legal
What people put in their body is their own problem. There is no reasonable objection to it.

Actually, no, it isn’t just their own problem unless they are wealthy enough to retire to their homes, keep up with bills, and veg in their homes, absent of a spouse or kids, never to emerge. Otherwise the minute they interact with either of those, or the outside world, it then involves others.

I'm not advocating for people shooting up in the streets.

Maybe instead of making drugs legal, we should just stop throwing addicts in jail. It is poor man's rehab around here and let me tell ya, it doesn't work. Drug Court works a lot better but it's expensive.

It's not that simple. Addicts commit real crime

I know that.

 

[TNHarley]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

You mean how the govt gives junkies heroine?
While I dont agree with the govt supplying drugs to junkies, they report a 75 percent cut of heroine use.
Is that what you were referring to? Lol
The UK's Controversial Heroin Treatment Program

If it works that well, TN, why do you oppose it?

Because it's not our govts job to supply drugs to people.
But making access legal and easy could have the same results and I support that.
By the way, thanks for the help! Lol

 

[OldLady]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

I find it really hard to believe we had MORE alcoholics during prohibition than afterward. It makes no sense at all. I think you got into one of those hinky sources of yours again.

 

[TNHarley]

But lets keep drugs illegal so the gang bangers can spike them with other substances like cyanide and fentanyl and keep people dropping like flies.
Murica

 

[OldLady]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

You mean how the govt gives junkies heroine?
While I dont agree with the govt supplying drugs to junkies, they report a 75 percent cut of heroine use.
Is that what you were referring to? Lol
The UK's Controversial Heroin Treatment Program

If it works that well, TN, why do you oppose it?

Because it's not our govts job to supply drugs to people.
But making access legal and easy could have the same results and I support that.
By the way, thanks for the help! Lol

You're always welcome. I just don't think recreational opiates is a good idea.

 

[TNHarley]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

I find it really hard to believe we had MORE alcoholics during prohibition than afterward. It makes no sense at all. I think you got into one of those hinky sources of yours again.

Says the woman that defeated her own argument. Lol
After Repeal, when tax data permit better-founded consumption estimates than we have for the Prohibition Era, per capita annual consumption stood at 1.2 US gallons (4.5 liters), less than half the level of the pre-Prohibition period

Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

 

[TNHarley]

Making it legal would also clean it up which would result in less ODs.

They've supplied heroin in Great Britain for decades, I think. See how it worked over there.

You mean how the govt gives junkies heroine?
While I dont agree with the govt supplying drugs to junkies, they report a 75 percent cut of heroine use.
Is that what you were referring to? Lol
The UK's Controversial Heroin Treatment Program

If it works that well, TN, why do you oppose it?

Because it's not our govts job to supply drugs to people.
But making access legal and easy could have the same results and I support that.
By the way, thanks for the help! Lol

You're always welcome. I just don't think recreational opiates is a good idea.

As you helped point out, all signs point towards it actually helping.
Emotion and opinions aside.

 

[OldLady]

Opium den - Wikipedia
Inside the Story of America’s 19th-Century Opiate Addiction | History | Smithsonian
Peek at these, just fyi. Recreational opiates that are highly addictive waste a society. People can't function. It's not like pot or even for most people beer that they can take or leave. It's gonna get you addicted; it's miserable as hell when you can't get it. It is not just psychological but physical.
THAT's why you don't want to open it up to free use by anyone that wants it. We've been there before and done that already.

 

[OldLady]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

I find it really hard to believe we had MORE alcoholics during prohibition than afterward. It makes no sense at all. I think you got into one of those hinky sources of yours again.

Says the woman that defeated her own argument. Lol
After Repeal, when tax data permit better-founded consumption estimates than we have for the Prohibition Era, per capita annual consumption stood at 1.2 US gallons (4.5 liters), less than half the level of the pre-Prohibition period

Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

? I'm not arguing with you, TN.

 

[TNHarley]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

I find it really hard to believe we had MORE alcoholics during prohibition than afterward. It makes no sense at all. I think you got into one of those hinky sources of yours again.

Says the woman that defeated her own argument. Lol
After Repeal, when tax data permit better-founded consumption estimates than we have for the Prohibition Era, per capita annual consumption stood at 1.2 US gallons (4.5 liters), less than half the level of the pre-Prohibition period

Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

? I'm not arguing with you, TN.

You said making it difficult to get would reduce addicts. Even though keeping it illegal for decades have caused more people to do it lol.

 

[OldLady]

So, easy, legal means, of getting heroine in the UK cut use.
We made alcohol legal and experienced the same results..
Hmmmm

I find it really hard to believe we had MORE alcoholics during prohibition than afterward. It makes no sense at all. I think you got into one of those hinky sources of yours again.

Says the woman that defeated her own argument. Lol
After Repeal, when tax data permit better-founded consumption estimates than we have for the Prohibition Era, per capita annual consumption stood at 1.2 US gallons (4.5 liters), less than half the level of the pre-Prohibition period

Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

? I'm not arguing with you, TN.

You said making it difficult to get would reduce addicts. Even though keeping it illegal for decades have caused more people to do it lol.

It DOES reduce addicts. Opiates aren't pot or even alcohol. Regular use causes physical addiction no matter what. It causes drug seeking behaviors that change the brain chemistry and create the addicts we all know and watch send their lives down the toilet. You don't want to sell that on the shelves at Walgreens.
I agree with you that a program where the heroin is supplied and regulated is safer and if it works, go for it, but I am pretty darned sure that Great Britain isn't handing out heroin to anyone who feels like getting high. That's the only difference in our ideas here.