Ohio Joins The Attempt To Shit on The Constitution and Eliminate The Electoral College

[OKTexas]

What are we going to about it? We allow them to get away with.....everything.

Since what they are doing is not against the Constitution, you are right, you will do nothing about it.

Wrong answer commie, see post 278.

.

 

[Pogo]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 would compel the Supreme Court to strike down such a shenanigan. In short is says no State shall "enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State" without the consent of Congress. I would think this section of Clause 3 would especially apply to States trying to circumvent the Constitution.

So I wouldn't get too upset about it.

Yeah, it doesn't. There IS NO circumvention of the Constitution.

 

[Pogo]

If people don’t stand up against it and inform others about it, you just can’t take things for granted anymore.

Look how Obama weaponized The FBI, DOJ, FISA, CIA, NSA against a Duky Elected President with a Fake Russia Collusion Hoax That held our Government hostage for three years!

Speak out or you will lose your voice!

Relax, it's not going to go anywhere. If the states that pass it implement it, they forfeit their votes. It may even get passed in a couple states, and the constituents are gonna be pissed at the legislators that passed it for getting their votes nullified with a stunt like that.

It won't get past the Supreme Court. What this proposal would do is nullify the electoral vote and put in place the popular vote, but just not calling it the popular vote.

Well first off, they are going to need enough signatures to even get it on the ballot. That's a hurdle in itself. Next they would have to use propaganda to make it sound like what it's not. That too would be difficult as Fox and other national talk show hosts would point out the lies in their language; not to mention local talk show hosts like Bob Frantz here in Cleveland.

You are correct that we just can't sit back and expect things to go our way. Sitting back and making assumptions is how New York ended up with a dingbat congress lady who wiped tables for a living.

Yeah OT is right to be upset. This is an outright attack on one of very things that make America what it is. Putting a bill forward like that is treason.

Word is that there are asshats trying to get Arizona to sign on to this traitorous piece of shit. I vow here and now to make it my mission to see any AZ state legislator who votes for such a thing impeached.

You amazingly fetid glop of ultimatoid ignorance. I JUST GAVE YOU ALL THE NAMES of those legislators in post 253, and here you are STILL playing "looka me, I'm stupid". It's back there with the poll that says YOUR STATE overwhelmingly supports it. As I said --- oblivious.

SMGDFH

 

[Cecilie1200]

OMG! we need to DO SOMETHING !!!

Wait....I know what we can do about it.....let's bitch on forums even MORE !!!! Yeah, that'll show em!


Ahhhh..there....don't ya feel better already?

So . . . you took the time to post on a forum about what a silly waste of time posting on forums is?

Yeah, I think that makes you too stupid to be allowed on my screen.

FLUSH!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

The constitution gives the states the power to choose how they select their Electors and how they will vote.

you cannot shit on the constitution by doing something it gives the power to do

/——/ The Constitution trumps state law and the EC is the constitution

Let me type this a bit slower for you since you have such poor reading comprehension...

The constitution gives the states the power to choose how they select their Electors and how they will vote.

They're Russian trolls with no understanding of the Constitution so he has no clue what you're saying.

Yes, the best judge of Constitutional understanding is a mouthbreathing, senile old bat who DOESN'T EVEN LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY.

You are a prime example of the axiom that leftism and lack of shame go hand-in-hand.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

The constitution gives the states the power to choose how they select their Electors and how they will vote.

you cannot shit on the constitution by doing something it gives the power to do

The problem is this is being done by democratic law makers and not the voting public. Here in Colorado Gov. Polis signed the law which was passed by the democratically controlled state legislature. The people had no input whatsoever.

Essentially what this means, that every voter in Colorado could vote for canidate A, but if canidate B won the PV, all of Colorado electoral votes would go to B. It’s possible for a state to vote heavily against a canidate, but have their electoral votes hand the election to the other canidate. It’s nuetering the small states influence. It is a long way from the spirit of the constitution IMO.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nebraska and Maine award their electoral votes by, in part, who wins a congressional district in the state. If a state can (as they have) use something other than receiving an overall plurality of votes in the state, they can arguably use something different than what ME and NE utilize to award electors.

The only change I would like to see made to the system is a requirement that the President Elect win not only the electoral collage as we have it now (270) but also get a plurality of the votes cast by voters. Anything less that and the current provisions that we have if nobody gets 270 are implemented. Under this change, the small states would still enjoy their seats at the table but you'd also ensure that the voters cast more ballots for the winner than any other candidate.

You DO see the difference between Nebraska and Maine apportioning EC votes based on something that happened IN THAT ACTUAL STATE, and the proposition that a state's EC votes should be decided by PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THAT STATE, right? Or is that a higher level of sanity than you can manage, Cornball?

 

[Pogo]

This is not an amendment.

It is illegal legislation designed to steal EC votes and throw them to a candidate that did not win that state!

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

Calm down Skippy.

The constitution was written to be amended from time to time.

Actually it is an amendment. But all this is going to accomplish is a fight to the higher courts at a cost to taxpayers. The petition is to have this amendment proposal put on the ballot for next election. However our State Constitution cannot override the US Constitution. It will be defeated one way or another.

It might be an Amendment to the state Constitution, but it's not an Amendment to the US Constitution.

I find it ironic - and more than a little hypocritical - that leftists who scream themselves hoarse about how Second Amendment rights are not unlimited NOW want to take the stance that the right of states to choose the method of apportioning its electors IS completely unlimited, to the point where it can disenfranchise its own citizens.

IT IS, DUMBASS. Read your Constitution. Article II section 2.

Here, Stupid, I'll read it TO you:

“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.”

And AGAIN, Stupid, you're already disenfranchised. Your state (and mine) didn't vote in the majority for anybody. Literally nobody achieved even half of either state's vote. Yet your electors (and mine) went to Congress and lied through their teeth claiming AridZona (and North Cackalackee) (and the rest of the WTA states) made a unanimous choice. WHICH WE DIDN'T.

You and I were already disenfranchised.

Good GOD you're a dolt.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

The constitution gives the states the power to choose how they select their Electors and how they will vote.

you cannot shit on the constitution by doing something it gives the power to do

The problem is this is being done by democratic law makers and not the voting public. Here in Colorado Gov. Polis signed the law which was passed by the democratically controlled state legislature. The people had no input whatsoever.

Essentially what this means, that every voter in Colorado could vote for canidate A, but if canidate B won the PV, all of Colorado electoral votes would go to B. It’s possible for a state to vote heavily against a canidate, but have their electoral votes hand the election to the other canidate. It’s nuetering the small states influence. It is a long way from the spirit of the constitution IMO.

The people vote for the state legislature, that is their input.

 

[OKTexas]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 would compel the Supreme Court to strike down such a shenanigan. In short is says no State shall "enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State" without the consent of Congress. I would think this section of Clause 3 would especially apply to States trying to circumvent the Constitution.
So I wouldn't get too upset about it.

This is the obvious truth they refuse to accept.

No their too ignorant to understand, the founders built in safeguards to protect the republic form assholes like we have today.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 would compel the Supreme Court to strike down such a shenanigan. In short is says no State shall "enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State" without the consent of Congress. I would think this section of Clause 3 would especially apply to States trying to circumvent the Constitution.

So I wouldn't get too upset about it.

Yeah, it doesn't. There IS NO circumvention of the Constitution.

Wrong again commie, the States are given the power to allocate electors based on how their citizens vote, winner take all or proportional. They can not engage in a multi-state compact to award their electors base on the votes of other States citizens, without the consent of Congress.

.

 

[Pogo]

Ohioans might vote to ditch Electoral College. Who's behind the effort? That's a mystery

DemNazis...

If you cannot win fair, you need to change The Rules so you can cheat!

We are in a Civil War.

And The Dems are Invading this country from The Southern Border and attacking our Constitution in our courts and legislatures.

Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 would compel the Supreme Court to strike down such a shenanigan. In short is says no State shall "enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State" without the consent of Congress. I would think this section of Clause 3 would especially apply to States trying to circumvent the Constitution.

So I wouldn't get too upset about it.

Yeah, it doesn't. There IS NO circumvention of the Constitution.

Wrong again commie, the States are given the power to allocate electors based on how their citizens vote, winner take all or proportional. They can not engage in a multi-state compact to award their electors base on the votes of other States citizens, without the consent of Congress.

NOPE. There is **NOTHING** --- ZERO --- in the Constitution requiring any state anywhere to even hold a vote at all.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Cecilie1200]

look jack ass, in every election except for the POTUS election a vote counts for a vote; NOT a fucking representation of a goddamn vote.
If you & all of your 100 plus year old clan of jack asses wanna be living in antiquity, then you go girl but the times they are a changin' & for the better, via a Constitutional mechanism.

bla ......

Well when you can change the Constitution, go for it gal. But you Commies are always looking for ways to get around it because you totally hate the Constitution. I have no idea why you even stay in this country.

Like I said dip shit; the Dems are attempting to make the change via a Constitutional mechanism.

Just because you & your fellow bed wetting Republicunts can't latch onto that; well, that is your fucking problem.

No, they are trying to change the Ohio Constitution, not the US Constitution. The problem with that is the Ohio Constitution doesn't supersede the US Constitution. It works the other way around.

So even if this passes which is a chance in hell, it will be overturned eventually.

What are they looking to change dippy? How their electoral votes are counted? They have the right to do that under the US Constitution

They don't have the right to subvert the Electoral College process which is what this proposal does. F the EC, we do popular vote now. That's against the US Constitution. The EC is not supposed to vote according to what the country does, they are supposed to represent the voters of that state. If we voters say we want Trump, and the EC says we by law are giving it to Hillary, that disenfranchises the voters in the entire state who voted to have Trump get our electoral votes.

The Constitution recognizes two kinds of powers: (1) those reserved by the Tenth Amendment in the states by reason of state sovereignty (“reserved powers”) and (2) those created and granted by the Constitution itself (“delegated powers”). Reserved powers are, in James Madison’s words, “numerous and indefinite,” but delegated powers are “few and defined.” - Robert Natelson

The power of a state to choose it's EC apportioning procedure is a delegated power, and it has specific limits on it. Those limits definitely include the underlying purpose and the obligation of the state government to act in the best interests of the people of that state.

 

[bendog]

Since the redundant thread closed, I'll note that it's not a left-right issue. Maine and Neb are the two states that apportion proportionally. The reason for it is simply to reflect the vote as accurately as possible. I favor the apportion approach, but all 50 states would have to join. It would preserve the weight given to small states. For example, are you better off with 100% of Kan or 70% and 20% of Calif? More or less a wash, imo.

But Jesusland will never do it. So probably we'll have to wait until states with 270 ev's pledge national winner take all before the states take up a way to eliminate the elitism in the EV of the Founders while trying to preserve some protection for very rural states

 

[anynameyouwish]

Is the EC written into the Constitution?

I'm sorry to say it is;

The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens. ... A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President.
U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?

U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?


however...It is my contention that people living to day shouldn't be bound by the mistakes of our founders.

they allowed slavery
we fixed that
women couldn't vote
we fixed that
The EC is no longer necessary and isn't allocated fairly. Time for it to go.

Feel free to put that Amendment up for ratification. But stop trying to weasel around the Constitution to impose your desires onto people. Present your alleged "superiority" to the Founders honestly where everyone can laugh at you derisively as you deserve.

"weasel"
"impose"
"laugh at you"


The difference between you and me is the difference between liberals and conservatives.

I am capable of having a reasonable discussion without resorting to insults and mockery.

I don't think you can.


I am so thankful I am SUPERIOR to you in pretty much every way!

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about a state deciding how the electoral votes are apportioned. You may not like it but hey...tough shit

It denies a Republican form of government, and violates 1 person 1 votes as imposed on the States via the 14th amendment.

It denies the will of the Majority in State for voters out of the State.

Majority in the state? So you FAVOR a popular vote...but only when it benefits you?

Too bad. What they are doing is totally legal and Constitutional. States have every right to apportion their electoral votes as they see fit.

Cry all you want

I favor popular vote when it is called for by the requirements of the offices, and the only ones not requiring it are President/VP.

They have the right to apportion it based on the results IN THE STATE. When you go outside the State, you disenfranchise the voters in the State.

That violates the 14th amendment, and the right to a Republican form of Government.

For a state to say to its residents, "Never mind what you voted for, the people in NY and CA think this is better" would be exactly like Congress telling the entire US, "Never mind what you guys want, Mexico thinks we should do this, so we're going to obey Mexico instead of you". Anyone think that would be okay? Those assholes in CA and NY don't live in Ohio, so there's no reason whatsoever that the representatives of Ohio should give a rat's ass about what they think.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Is the EC written into the Constitution?

I'm sorry to say it is;

The Electoral College is a process, not a place. The founding fathers established it in the Constitution as a compromise between election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens. ... A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President.
U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?

U. S. Electoral College, Official - What is the Electoral College?


however...It is my contention that people living to day shouldn't be bound by the mistakes of our founders.

they allowed slavery
we fixed that
women couldn't vote
we fixed that
The EC is no longer necessary and isn't allocated fairly. Time for it to go.

Feel free to put that Amendment up for ratification. But stop trying to weasel around the Constitution to impose your desires onto people. Present your alleged "superiority" to the Founders honestly where everyone can laugh at you derisively as you deserve.

Here are some conservative "weasels"

Shall we laugh at them?

or do they deserve respect?

Conservatives seek constitutional convention of the states under ...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/.../conservatives-seek-constitutional-convention-stat...
Nov 4, 2018 - They're pushing for an unprecedented constitutional convention of the states. While opponents are afraid of what such a convention would do, ...

 

[Cecilie1200]

The electoral college was born of slave owners to protect slavery from the abolitionist north. It's origins are tainted and it's original purpose no longer exists. People like to explain that it protects rural voters from irrelevance but what it really does is make minority party votes worthless. If you vote democrat in a red state or republican in a blue state your vote has probably never counted. I want my vote to count.

That is absolutely NOT TRUE. You have no understanding of this republic

You must live in a state where your vote counts for something.

I did a quick calculation and I came up to about 55 million people cast votes in states for a candidate that had zero chance to win that state (I used the winner taking more than 60% of the vote as my cutoff.)

So you’d rather have New York and California vote and let the rest of the nation’s votes not count? I agree the winner take all model however dividing the EC in states would better represent the Republic.

About 130 million people voted in the last election, 16% of those were in Cali or NY. How does 16% make the rest of the nation not count?

In the 2016 election, roughly 55 million people voted in states for a candidate that had no realistic chance to win that state. That means that roughly 42% of the people cast votes knowing they would not count in the winner take all system we now have.

Please learn the difference between losing an election and "not counting" in an election.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about a state deciding how the electoral votes are apportioned. You may not like it but hey...tough shit

Good, let em do it. I'm looking forward to another civil war. This time conservatives vs liberals.

There is going to be a civil war for people doing what the Constitution allows?

There's going to be a civil war if you keep subverting the Constitution while pretending you're in line with it. You may or may not be stupid enough to believe the Constitution intended to give state legislatures unlimited power to ignore and disenfranchise their own constituents - I certainly wouldn't put any level of stupidity past you - but I doubt you can convince a majority of people that's really what they intended.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You must live in a state where your vote counts for something.

I did a quick calculation and I came up to about 55 million people cast votes in states for a candidate that had zero chance to win that state (I used the winner taking more than 60% of the vote as my cutoff.)

So you’d rather have New York and California vote and let the rest of the nation’s votes not count? I agree the winner take all model however dividing the EC in states would better represent the Republic.

About 130 million people voted in the last election, 16% of those were in Cali or NY. How does 16% make the rest of the nation not count?

In the 2016 election, roughly 55 million people voted in states for a candidate that had no realistic chance to win that state. That means that roughly 42% of the people cast votes knowing they would not count in the winner take all system we now have.

It also means who-knows-how-many people just said "fuck it what's the point" and didn't vote at all (45% of the electorate to be exact). Because indeed when your state is predetermined, what IS the point, even if it's predetermined in the way you want?

without a doubt, our current system discourages participation in 2/3 of the states.

That's not without a doubt, because I doubt it a great deal.