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I'm aware the missle systems are offensive but this is more than just simply offending Russia. It's provoking them. Big difference. IMO. Leave it to Bush to drag us into yet another mess he isn't capable of handling without making matters worse.
I'm aware the missle systems are offensive but this is more than just simply offending Russia. It's provoking them. Big difference. IMO. Leave it to Bush to drag us into yet another mess he isn't capable of handling without making matters worse.
Yup. Bush is sure no Vladimir Putin all right.
I don't want war with Russia but I'm not about bending over and grabbing ankles for every totalitarian thug on the planet either. It's just fascinating how many people live in partisan fantasy land and so quickly point their finger at the good guys just because they lose an election from time to time. Sheesh!
Where does Denny cite that as a reason for his opinion?
Leave it to Bush to drag us into yet another mess he isn't capable of handling without making matters worse.
Bush did not "drag" us into anything. We have been working with Poland for months on helping them deter threats from rogue states. Putin is the one pushing Russia into "rogue" territory. To backslap our POTUS is not just and shows either a lack of understanding (which I don't think Denny has) or just simple partisan bickering IMO.
So you concede that you fabricated the whole ... "just because they lose an election from time to time" ...
No. That was a dig at any and all whackjobs that like to pretend Bush did not win two elections. When I said "how many people" I ment that comment to go beyond just Denny.
You concocted some reasoning behind his post that didn't exist and pulled it out your arse.
I'd thank you to keep your mind off my arse.
Is this some unclever way of not addressing any substantive point about the 'blame Bush crowd' or do you even have a problem with the single line of text ("just because they lose an election from time to time") you have protested to this point?
I don't have a problem with it ... just pointing out that you fabricated it and it had nothing to do with what the poster you quoted said ... you made it up ... probably for your own partisan reasons.
To the topic at hand ... yes, this was provocation ... the timing of the deal wasn't a coincidence ... Russia has been protesting the deal long before this conflict ... IMO the Bush Admin took what happened in Georgia and used it as a way to lean on Poland to get their MDS deal inked ... they should have and probably did know that the Russians would take it move as a "threat" ... and would have react in kind ... typical cowboy foreign policy from the Bush Admin.
That is exactly the kind of response that would lead me to post, again, the very post you had a problem with in the first place!
Putin's "cowboy foreign policy" in Georgia and the very real threat felt by Poland are not factors at all?
No, it's Bush Derangment Syndrome yet again!
Poland was invaded by Russia before, kept enslaved by Russia before and ruined by Russia before and still, partisan hacks blame America. Unbelievable! If the term "useful idiots" did not exist before, it would surely be invented today.
Wrong ... yet again ... don't try to figure me out ... if you want to know something just ask.
I voted for Bush in 2000 ... sat out 2004 ... I was busy serving in Iraq at the time and was appalled by the two horrible choices we were presented with. See ... when you try place people in a nice little self created package based on a few posts you read in the Interwebz you are going to wrong about as often as you are right.
It WAS cowboy policy. No threat was made toward Poland until after the deal was signed. The Bush Adminstration pushed this deal in the midst of harsh rhetoric towards the Russians. They were actually saying (amazingly with a straight face) that in the 21st century countries don't invade and occupy other countries ... unbelievable. This kind of policy brings about further escalation.
The more prudent thing to do ... because I do agree that the Russians do need to be checked in eastern Europe ... was to let things blow over for a little while ... allow the peace agreement to be signed ... the olympics to finish ... and let some time pass so that the entire world wasn't on edge over the ordeal ... then quietly make your move and ink the missile defense system deal.
Please. You make as many assumptions about me as I may have about you. I'm a noob here and have as few post about you as you have about me.
My philosophy is to make my case in as open a way as seems prudent and have fun in the process. Sometimes leaning a bit on the latter too much. I argue to engage as well as to learn. If I am right, you will learn. If you are right, I will learn. But both of us will profit when reason is the final arbiter.
What evidence do you have that "The Bush Adminstration pushed this deal"?
And what do you mean by no threat was made to Poland? Poland STILL bears the scars from Russia's last invasion.
Weakness is what invites attacks and I offer nothing less than the history of totalitarianism to make that point. The Russians need more than to be checked, they need to choose another course of government that will lead to freedom and prosperity for its long suffering people.
And for what it's worth, countries should not invade other sovereign countries in the 21st century or in any other.
Also of note, the Olympics mean squat in this diplomacy beyond a different stage to act it out upon and there is no such thing as a quiet way to move on a missile defense system deal.
All that said, I respect to the upmost your service, I respect your opinion here and I hope to learn from your experience but I need to crash, lol. I will try to remember to seek this thread out in the future as I value your thoughts (for both your service and your stubbornly wrong headed opinions)
night night
Why would sane americans want to go to war with russia, over a minor border conflict in Georgia?
America has engaged in more wars, and invaded more nations, in the last 30 years, than any other nation on the planet. I don't think anyone thinks we're pussies.
I think it's perfectly sane for an american to not want to go to war, over a minor skirmish in georgia. I don' think you'd find enough americans who want to go to war over georgia, to fill a telephone booth.
What threats? Is Russia threatening to invade Poland with their tiny military?
I disagree but I think we are past that now.
Fair enough ... I agree.
Nothing other than the timing which is why I specifically stated "IMO."
No threat was made ... Germany invaded France ... does that mean there is a current standing threat from Germany to France?
I agree with what you are saying about the Russian need to be checked and that it would be better for them to choose another path. But poking them when they are agitated is no way to get one's point across.
We invaded Iraq against the world's wishes ...
The Olympics comment was to illustrate that we should let things pass a bit and ease the tension before making the MDS move. I agree that it will make noise no matter what but it makes a helluva lot more when you make the deal while talking trash to Russia. It's brash to say the least ... Russia is historically paranoid ... we should know better.
Thanks ... I'll catch ya later.
A threat was made. By Russia. Ohh and we did not invade against the World's wishes. We invaded with the backing of more countries then opposed us. Most of Europe sided with us as well as most of the America's. France Belgium and Germany are only 3 Countries and who gives a shit what Russia and China want.
The threat was made after the fact, not before it.
Wrong Russia has been threatening Poland for months. They just upped the threat to invasion or nuclear attack when their other threats failed. Poland signed BECAUSE Russia invade Georgia. They saw the writing on the wall. Russia's actions prompted the agreement after all these months of dragging their feet.
Blame Russia.
You mean they escalated things? Hmm ... that kinda sounds like what my point was all along ...
Oh, and I thought the MDS was to stop any incoming Iranian missiles and had nothing to do with Russia ...
