Office of Special Counsel Launches Investigation Into Jack Smith

[WEATHER53]

Gradually the criminals of law are being dealt with and this policy will continue over the din of lib loons wailing that it isn’t

 

[WEATHER53]

But in law, you have to work off the letter of the law, not what is assumed.

In the technical sense, what was recorded was accurate. They paid a legal expense, not to mention, there was no cover up. These were internal records, who what were the covering, and from whom?

They witch hunted up that payment is illegal and conjured up non existent “law” surrounding that along with extending time frames for expiration
Sham shit show and chickens be roosting now.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If my lawyer goes to Walmart and buys a box of condoms, but I decide I want to change the receipt to "box of pregnancy preventers" instead, and take that receipt and write it down in my personal ledger "box of pregnancy preventers", exactly what public interest am I concealing the purchase from?

Why would you keep track of what what your lawyer uses for birth control? That's kinda creepy.

You aren't concealing anything. You accurately logged what happened.

However if you logged it as "attorney fees", that would be against the law as condoms aren't attorney fees. In New York, since it isn't being done to hide or aid in a crime by yourself or another, it would be a misdemeanor, however if you did it to hide or aid in a crime it would be felony.

Trump wasnt charged with concealing cohens crime, he was charged with falsifying business records in furtherance of a crime.

Correct, he was charged with felonious falsification of business records.

Concealing Cohen's crimes was the motivation, fraudulent business records was the method.

The thing is, falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in New York, the only way it gets to be a felony is if it is tied to the committing or furtherance of a crime. How does falsifying an INTERNAL business transaction, further the crime?

It was an attempt to hide Cohen's federal felony campaign finance fraud.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

But trump wasn't charged with paying the NDA, he was charged with falsifying internal business records to conceal another crime, yet, his falsifying his own internal records doesnt conceal anything, if the public never even knew about it.

Also, its likely that trump uses an external accounting firm to handle the books. If THEY get a receipt that says "$130,000 payment to Michael cohen", then THEY are going to go "oh, must be a legal expense", unless trump specifically called them and said "make sure you write this down in this way".

You are skipping the whole conspiracy established in court records between Trump, Cohen, and Pecker to specifically conspired to evade campaign laws.

Which Cohen did.

Which Trump attempted to cover up.

By laundering the money through his business entity.

You are skipping to the account clerk and ignoring the whole planning that went into it prior to it getting to account clerk entering something in the ledger.

WW

 

[ThisIsMe]

It would have obscured the transaction if it had ever come under scrutiny from the FEC.

Again, Trump is claiming this was all done independently by Cohen when that was obviously not the case. You can make any excuse you want, but it’s clearly a cover up.

Depends, internal records are just that. IF the transaction had ever come under scrutiny, at that point, if it were to have been presented to the investigators as a falsified document, then yeah, but, you're operating on what ifs about some future potential audit. The issue is what happened at present.

Cohen made a payment to Daniel's for the NDA. Later, the trump organization reimbursed cohen for that expense. The accounting agency who handles trumps books then recorded it as a legal expense. Cohen LATER comes out and admits to campaign fraud by paying a porn star to keep quiet about an affair. This was considered a campaign finance violation because it exceeds donation amounts allowed by law. It was an "in kind" donation because they weren't directly contributing to a campaign with money, but rather influence.

Up to this point, those internal business records had zero effect on the election, no body even knew they existed. Now, the actual payment for Daniel's silence could have been relevant because it kept that information out of the publics view, but the way the payment was internally characterized is still irrelevant, again, NOBODY outside of the accounting firm trump uses has any clue about the way the transactions were worded.

Bragg comes along and uses some weird game to take a misdemeanor and drum it up to a felony, after cohen tells the story of how he was reimbursed for a payment to Daniel's, for the NDA. It was only during the investigation that they found the falsified records. At this point, trump had already been elected., and internal records were never seen by the public, so how could there have been a cover up?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Depends, internal records are just that. IF the transaction had ever come under scrutiny, at that point, if it were to have been presented to the investigators as a falsified document, then yeah, but, you're operating on what ifs about some future potential audit. The issue is what happened at present.

Cohen made a payment to Daniel's for the NDA. Later, the trump organization reimbursed cohen for that expense. The accounting agency who handles trumps books then recorded it as a legal expense. Cohen LATER comes out and admits to campaign fraud by paying a porn star to keep quiet about an affair. This was considered a campaign finance violation because it exceeds donation amounts allowed by law. It was an "in kind" donation because they weren't directly contributing to a campaign with money, but rather influence.

Up to this point, those internal business records had zero effect on the election, no body even knew they existed. Now, the actual payment for Daniel's silence could have been relevant because it kept that information out of the publics view, but the way the payment was internally characterized is still irrelevant, again, NOBODY outside of the accounting firm trump uses has any clue about the way the transactions were worded.

Bragg comes along and uses some weird game to take a misdemeanor and drum it up to a felony, after cohen tells the story of how he was reimbursed for a payment to Daniel's, for the NDA. It was only during the investigation that they found the falsified records. At this point, trump had already been elected., and internal records were never seen by the public, so how could there have been a cover up?

The whole purpose of the conspiracy described at trial was to attempt to circumvent campaign laws SPECIFICALLY because such transactions that Cohen, Pecker, and Trump conceived was to hide the information from the public involution of the law.

You attempt to muddy the waters by continually referring to "internal" documents is funny. Because that was the hope, that by laundering the money through the business the crimes would remain hidden.

The attempt failed.

Now Cohen and Trump are convicted felons, and Pecker escaped prosecution by (a) backing out early, and (b) testifying so as not to be prosecuted.

WW

 

[WEATHER53]

You are skipping the whole conspiracy established in court records between Trump, Cohen, and Pecker to specifically conspired to evade campaign laws.

Which Cohen did.

Which Trump attempted to cover up.

By laundering the money through his business entity.

You are skipping to the account clerk and ignoring the whole planning that went into it prior to it getting to account clerk entering something in the ledger.

WW

You actually can’t and in fact never would “launder” money that you are permitted to disburse

 

[WorldWatcher]

You actually can’t and in fact never would “launder” money that you are permitted to disburse

That's the point you are missing.

Cohen's actions and Trumps cover up were not legal, as a matter of fact they were felonies.

WW

 

[Marener]

Depends, internal records are just that. IF the transaction had ever come under scrutiny, at that point, if it were to have been presented to the investigators as a falsified document, then yeah, but, you're operating on what ifs about some future potential audit. The issue is what happened at present.

Cohen made a payment to Daniel's for the NDA. Later, the trump organization reimbursed cohen for that expense. The accounting agency who handles trumps books then recorded it as a legal expense. Cohen LATER comes out and admits to campaign fraud by paying a porn star to keep quiet about an affair. This was considered a campaign finance violation because it exceeds donation amounts allowed by law. It was an "in kind" donation because they weren't directly contributing to a campaign with money, but rather influence.

Up to this point, those internal business records had zero effect on the election, no body even knew they existed. Now, the actual payment for Daniel's silence could have been relevant because it kept that information out of the publics view, but the way the payment was internally characterized is still irrelevant, again, NOBODY outside of the accounting firm trump uses has any clue about the way the transactions were worded.

Bragg comes along and uses some weird game to take a misdemeanor and drum it up to a felony, after cohen tells the story of how he was reimbursed for a payment to Daniel's, for the NDA. It was only during the investigation that they found the falsified records. At this point, trump had already been elected., and internal records were never seen by the public, so how could there have been a cover up?

Everything Cohen did was at the direction of Trump. They concocted a story about him making the NDA on his own to cover up the fact that Trump is culpable in the fraud.

The records did come under scrutiny and they were found to be false.

 

[WEATHER53]

That's the point you are missing.

Cohen's actions and Trumps cover up were not legal, as a matter of fact they were felonies.

WW

No it was all legal but the witch hunters concocted some fabrication that the account wasn’t the “right account” and extended the time frame for the non crime to have been still a crime. The act is fully legal and done frequently but the witch hunters elected to quibble about the methodology of transfer from A to B

 

[ThisIsMe]

You are skipping the whole conspiracy established in court records between Trump, Cohen, and Pecker to specifically conspired to evade campaign laws.

Which Cohen did.

Which Trump attempted to cover up.

By laundering the money through his business entity.

You are skipping to the account clerk and ignoring the whole planning that went into it prior to it getting to account clerk entering something in the ledger.

WW

No, im not skipping that, because those are irrelevant to the crimes that were charged. He wasnt charged with conspiracy to commit campaign fraud, he was charged with falsifying business records to conceal a crime. That crime was cohens campaign finance violation, but the business records were internal only, so im not seeing the cover up, unless they altered business records that would keep the payment out of the public knowledge, which these didn't because the public didnt even know about them.

 

[ThisIsMe]

The whole purpose of the conspiracy described at trial was to attempt to circumvent campaign laws SPECIFICALLY because such transactions that Cohen, Pecker, and Trump conceived was to hide the information from the public involution of the law.

The information was already hidden from public view by nature of them being INTERNAL records, i.e., records the public was never going to see anyway. Even if they wrote them down as "payment to conceal campaign finance law violations", they were internal documents, the public would have never been privy to them.

You attempt to muddy the waters by continually referring to "internal" documents is funny. Because that was the hope, that by laundering the money through the business the crimes would remain hidden.

Those records would have remained hidden because they were never available for the public, or anyone else to see.

in any case, we're getting away from the main topic because the trump issue has already been hashed and rehashed. This is about letitia james and HER crimes, which everyone seems to want to deflect away from

 

[WorldWatcher]

No it was all legal but the witch hunters concocted some fabrication that the account wasn’t the “right account” and extended the time frame for the non crime to have been still a crime. The act is fully legal and done frequently but the witch hunters elected to quibble about the methodology of transfer from A to B

#1 No it wasn't legal. Campaign fraud (Cohen) and falsification of business records to hide that crime are in fact crimes.

#2 The prosecution was within the Statute of Limitations, claims it wasn't was fully adjudicated (and IIRC appealed and rejected) because of the extended time Trump was in D.C. and Florida. Time for SOL's don't "toll" in New York when the perpetrator is out of state.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

No, im not skipping that, because those are irrelevant to the crimes that were charged. He wasnt charged with conspiracy to commit campaign fraud, he was charged with falsifying business records to conceal a crime. That crime was cohens campaign finance violation, but the business records were internal only, so im not seeing the cover up, unless they altered business records that would keep the payment out of the public knowledge, which these didn't because the public didnt even know about them.

#1 Planning the conspiracy is very relevant to the commission of a crime. It shows and proves intent.

#2 Again, "internal" is a irrelevant. He laundered the money through a business and the conduct of businesses is a matter of law.

#3 Of course you don't "see" the cover up. But that's OK. Cohen is still a felon for campaign finance fraud and Trump is still a felon for felonious business fraud.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

The information was already hidden from public view by nature of them being INTERNAL records, i.e., records the public was never going to see anyway. Even if they wrote them down as "payment to conceal campaign finance law violations", they were internal documents, the public would have never been privy to them.




Those records would have remained hidden because they were never available for the public, or anyone else to see.

in any case, we're getting away from the main topic because the trump issue has already been hashed and rehashed. This is about letitia james and HER crimes, which everyone seems to want to deflect away from

Successfully hiding a crime, doesn't mean the crime didn't happen.

But in this case they failed to hide it.

WW

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Look at all the charges. Most of them are invoice entries. Thats how they bloated it to 34 counts.

No, thats how Trump bloated it to 34 felonies. The charges came AFTER he committed 34 felonies.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Successfully hiding a crime, doesn't mean the crime didn't happen.

But in this case they failed to hide it.

WW

Covering up the crime is also a crime.

 

[struth]

So you are ignorantly of the fact a SCIF is the only location a Senator and VP can view top secret info.

Par for the course.

He hasn’t eagled a hole in his life

 

[Nostra]

He hasn’t eagled a hole in his life

I’m guessing double bogey is his best score, based on his posting history.

 

[ThisIsMe]

#1 Planning the conspiracy is very relevant to the commission of a crime. It shows and proves intent.

#2 Again, "internal" is a irrelevant. He laundered the money through a business and the conduct of businesses is a matter of law.

#3 Of course you don't "see" the cover up. But that's OK. Cohen is still a felon for campaign finance fraud and Trump is still a felon for felonious business fraud.

WW