Objectivism - Is It Flawed?

[there4eyeM]

Human survival is based upon common effort, often for the benefit of very weakest. No human could possibly survive alone before a very advanced age compared to any other animal. Families provide for utterly incapable infants for very long periods of their life. That is co-operative, and that is fundamentally human. Humans are social animals by definition. What one infers from that may vary, but it is an undeniable truth.

 

[Picaro]

"Competition is a sin."--- said some extremely wealthy guy who mostly gets an undeserved bad rap, as his competitors were most often far more crooked than he was, and he merely practiced self-defense in a corrupt business and and more corrupt political environment. Reforms and anti-corruption campaigns in the early 20th Century actually doubled his already immense wealth.

Corruption is both hideously expensive and deadly; even the brighter sociopaths realize this, but too many stupid people can't understand that basic truth.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's been years since I've read Atlas Shrugged, but, this philosophy sounds pretty close to my line of thinking.

What are some observable flaws to this philosophy?

Morally, Objectivism advocates the virtues of rational self-interest—virtues such as independent thinking, productiveness, justice, honesty, and self-responsibility.

Culturally, Objectivism advocates scientific advancement, industrial progress, objective (as opposed to “progressive” or faith-based) education, romantic art—and, above all, reverence for the faculty that makes all such values possible: reason.

Politically, Objectivism advocates pure, laissez-faire capitalism—the social system of individual rights and strictly limited government—along with the whole moral and philosophical structure on which it depends.

It's morally backwards and amount to a self-soothing justification for pure selfishness...not exactly a trait that needs to be "coached up" in a human being.

 

[cnm]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

 

[RWNJ]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

It's obvious, from that reply, that you live in a closet.

 

[Bonzi]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

VENEZUELA

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...g-venezuela-and-americans-dont-seem-to-notice

 

[Bonzi]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

It's obvious, from that reply, that you live in a closet.

.... be nice

 

[Bonzi]

It's been years since I've read Atlas Shrugged, but, this philosophy sounds pretty close to my line of thinking.

What are some observable flaws to this philosophy?

Morally, Objectivism advocates the virtues of rational self-interest—virtues such as independent thinking, productiveness, justice, honesty, and self-responsibility.

Culturally, Objectivism advocates scientific advancement, industrial progress, objective (as opposed to “progressive” or faith-based) education, romantic art—and, above all, reverence for the faculty that makes all such values possible: reason.

Politically, Objectivism advocates pure, laissez-faire capitalism—the social system of individual rights and strictly limited government—along with the whole moral and philosophical structure on which it depends.

It's morally backwards and amount to a self-soothing justification for pure selfishness...not exactly a trait that needs to be "coached up" in a human being.

I view it more as emphasis on self betterment.....but not many people are really interested in making themselves better. so I agree with your end statement...

 

[BlackSand]

The problem with Rand's [philosophy is that, politically, it assumes facts not in evidence - specifically that, given the opportunity Corporate owners practice enlightened self-interest. In other words, they will take the time to take a "long view" of profits, giving up instant gratification, in order to ensure long term self sufficiency. by doing so, they not only make themselves stronger, but strengthen the society as a whole.

The problem is, that's not generally how they behave. They are incapable of looking beyond the bottom line of the next quarter. They want it all, and they want it all now, and they don't care how they get it, or what the long term effects of their behaviour will be. Morally, and culturally I rather agree with Rand. Politically, she had far to much faith in capitalists to do what was necessary for the economy, the society, and themselves to survive.

Successful responsible sustainable business requires a balance of both.

The long view gives birth to direction, but doesn't accomplish the goals nor growth required
The short view provides accountability and helps determine sustainability or the need for redirection.

I would send you the bill for my goals ... But I simply doubt you could afford it.
It is a good thing I don't require your faith ... But then again, I am not selling objectivity.

.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Individualism is the primary message that was being presented in Atlas Shrugged.

Likely the most important thing to take away from the book is that it challenges the reader to stand up and challenge traditional wisdom.

Carpe Diem!

 

[Natural Citizen]

The only philosophy that works is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If everyone followed this simple solution almost all of the worlds problems would disappear.

Agreed.

I would leave others alone and pray that others practice what others preach.

 

[danielpalos]

Most animals work together at some level, but there are always leaders. When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

When society works together it is stronger. It should enable everyone to get an equal start in life, irrespective of their parents fortunes and failures. How they do after that is then totally on them.

Equal start in what way?

I'd say a good education and health care at minimum. Maybe mentoring and life skills too if the parents aren't up to it.

Public education is available to everyone. Health care too.
As for the latter, well, even kids from wealthy parents don't get much of that.....

More of Your "Poor Little Richboy" Lies

Except for the richkids living off an allowance, college and even job training means work without pay and living like a teenager who is afraid to grow up. Graduates steal jobs from more talented people who have too much self-respect to live like that. The Diploma Dumbos' submission to the will of economic bullies causes permanent damage to their personalities. The corporate conformists wind up all hollow inside and have to convince themselves that their higher salaries make up for that.

The right wing only complains about the poor not having to work for money.

 

[danielpalos]

It's been years since I've read Atlas Shrugged, but, this philosophy sounds pretty close to my line of thinking.

What are some observable flaws to this philosophy?

Morally, Objectivism advocates the virtues of rational self-interest—virtues such as independent thinking, productiveness, justice, honesty, and self-responsibility.

Culturally, Objectivism advocates scientific advancement, industrial progress, objective (as opposed to “progressive” or faith-based) education, romantic art—and, above all, reverence for the faculty that makes all such values possible: reason.

Politically, Objectivism advocates pure, laissez-faire capitalism—the social system of individual rights and strictly limited government—along with the whole moral and philosophical structure on which it depends.

The only philosophy that works is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If everyone followed this simple solution almost all of the worlds problems would disappear.

True, but it won't happen cause there are too many people out there looking for suckers

Capitalism insists we have to, "do it the hard way and get punished by lucre", while we are at it.

 

[danielpalos]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

VENEZUELA

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...g-venezuela-and-americans-dont-seem-to-notice

What a difference a social Contract and Constitution makes.

I believe it is just lousy management.

Better management would recognize socialism is best at socializing some costs, and "hired a chief of staff" for a venture that could include, a corp or agricultural engineers to find paths and pioneer better practices on that front.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's been years since I've read Atlas Shrugged, but, this philosophy sounds pretty close to my line of thinking.

What are some observable flaws to this philosophy?

Morally, Objectivism advocates the virtues of rational self-interest—virtues such as independent thinking, productiveness, justice, honesty, and self-responsibility.

Game Theory has clearly demonstrated that in many cases cooperation is a better strategy than pure self-interest. Example:
You and an opponent have two choices in the game: Cooperate or Defect, and you cannot know your opponent's choice until after you have made yours. If you both Cooperate, you each receive $50. If you both Defect, you each receive $20. If one person Cooperates and the other Defects, the one who cooperates receives $5 and the one who defects receives $90.
If you use rational self interest, you will see that if your opponent Cooperates, you will get $50 for cooperating and $90 for defecting. You are better off Defecting.
If your opponent Defects, you will get $5 for cooperating, and $20 for defecting. You are better off Defecting.
But your opponent is also rational, comes to the same conclusion, and you both Defect and get $20. You would both be better off if you both cooperated.

Plus rational self-interest assumes perfect information and an eye to long-term consequences. Those are not often true.

There is no pure free market solution.[/QUOTE]
Me, Myself, and Ayn

A deeper description of real-life economics than Rand's simple-minded bombast was presented in A Beautiful Mind. The scene used by the script to illustrate John Nash's theory could be summarized mathematically as:

Getting the beautiful blonde: 10 points.
Getting one of her four pretty friends: 5 points

Under Rand's egomaniac theory; the total GNP on this would be 10.
But if each man was channeled to consider the team's score also, the total would be 20 points. So "every man for himself" leads to disaster. The phony alternative invented by "Leftist" richkids is that all five guys stay horny: Zero points for the team (GNP).

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Human survival is based upon common effort, often for the benefit of very weakest. No human could possibly survive alone before a very advanced age compared to any other animal. Families provide for utterly incapable infants for very long periods of their life. That is co-operative, and that is fundamentally human. Humans are social animals by definition. What one infers from that may vary, but it is an undeniable truth.

If Daddy Wants to Set Them Up, Break the Preppies' Legs

Familiyism is more primitive than tribalism. The doting father must not be allowed to bias the next generation's economic competition. Be a man and never yield to any hereditary privileges.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Individualism is the primary message that was being presented in Atlas Shrugged.

Likely the most important thing to take away from the book is that it challenges the reader to stand up and challenge traditional wisdom.

Carpe Diem!

Bossy Blowhard Baboons

Individualism for the most predatory, being allowed to make as much money as they can, as fast as they can, any way they can. If all you have is a contrast with the equally vicious Socialism, you have nothing. That's the state you and your mooching heirs should wind up in, if men every became men instead of cheering spectators at the Looters' World Series.

 

[RWNJ]

When society tried to make everyone equal, it weakens

An example?

It's obvious, from that reply, that you live in a closet.

.... be nice

I was being nice. I didn't call them a blithering idiot.