Obama's 2011 Tax Cut Was UNFAIR to the Poor

[edthecynic]

Typical Straw Man. I am merely pointing out the Tramp claim that EVERY worker is getting a tax cut is a LIE. About half of American workers will get no tax cut other than on paper, they will only get a cut in their refund.

If the top marginal bracket a person was paying before the Trump tax laws went down then that person got a tax cut regardless of whether or not he gets a refund

So you see the only people who didn't get a tax cut were those in the 10% bracket

Well at least you admit that the bottom bracket got no tax cut, that is a start.
~80% of tax households fall in the bottom 2 brackets and ~80 million of them paid no income tax in 2016. That means that all of the old 10% bracket and about half of the old 15% bracket got no tax cut.

If their tax rate went down they got a tax cut

Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't matter if they got a refund or not

And all the people in the 15% bracket got a tax cut because the portion of their income that was taxed at 15% is now taxed at 12%

If they paid no taxes at 15% and they paid no taxes at 12% how much less tax did they pay at 12%?
ZERO at 15% minus ZERO at 12% equals ZERO.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The tax rate is all that matters.

The fact that we have far too many deductions and giveaways in the tax law is a horse of a different color

No, the cash in your pocket is all that matters, and if on the same income you NET the same cash in your pocket at 15% as 12% then you got NO tax cut in reality no matter how big a tax cut you got on paper, because the black and white money you got on paper is not the kind of green paper money you can spend.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the top marginal bracket a person was paying before the Trump tax laws went down then that person got a tax cut regardless of whether or not he gets a refund

So you see the only people who didn't get a tax cut were those in the 10% bracket

Well at least you admit that the bottom bracket got no tax cut, that is a start.
~80% of tax households fall in the bottom 2 brackets and ~80 million of them paid no income tax in 2016. That means that all of the old 10% bracket and about half of the old 15% bracket got no tax cut.

If their tax rate went down they got a tax cut

Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't matter if they got a refund or not

And all the people in the 15% bracket got a tax cut because the portion of their income that was taxed at 15% is now taxed at 12%

If they paid no taxes at 15% and they paid no taxes at 12% how much less tax did they pay at 12%?
ZERO at 15% minus ZERO at 12% equals ZERO.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The tax rate is all that matters.

The fact that we have far too many deductions and giveaways in the tax law is a horse of a different color

No, the cash in your pocket is all that matters, and if on the same income you NET the same cash in your pocket at 15% as 12% then you got NO tax cut in reality no matter how big a tax cut you got on paper, because the black and white money you got on paper is not the kind of green paper money you can spend.

Why is that so hard to understand?

All money is nothing but numbers on paper.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are right, Slade. Let's see if Skull Pilot can get over his pathology and admit you are right.

You admit that you whined about me not quoting your whole post even though you changed it after I quoted it

I was adding to it as you quoted it. Be honest. It's hard, but be honest.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are right, Slade. Let's see if Skull Pilot can get over his pathology and admit you are right.

You admit that you whined about me not quoting your whole post even though you changed it after I quoted it

I was adding to it as you quoted it. Be honest. It's hard, but be honest.

And yet you still whined about me not quoting the entire post

BE honest

 

[JakeStarkey]

EdtheCynic drives Skull Pilot before him.

 

[edthecynic]

Well at least you admit that the bottom bracket got no tax cut, that is a start.
~80% of tax households fall in the bottom 2 brackets and ~80 million of them paid no income tax in 2016. That means that all of the old 10% bracket and about half of the old 15% bracket got no tax cut.

If their tax rate went down they got a tax cut

Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't matter if they got a refund or not

And all the people in the 15% bracket got a tax cut because the portion of their income that was taxed at 15% is now taxed at 12%

If they paid no taxes at 15% and they paid no taxes at 12% how much less tax did they pay at 12%?
ZERO at 15% minus ZERO at 12% equals ZERO.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The tax rate is all that matters.

The fact that we have far too many deductions and giveaways in the tax law is a horse of a different color

No, the cash in your pocket is all that matters, and if on the same income you NET the same cash in your pocket at 15% as 12% then you got NO tax cut in reality no matter how big a tax cut you got on paper, because the black and white money you got on paper is not the kind of green paper money you can spend.

Why is that so hard to understand?

All money is nothing but numbers on paper.

Try to buy a gallon of milk with black and white numbers on paper and see what happens.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are right, Slade. Let's see if Skull Pilot can get over his pathology and admit you are right.

You admit that you whined about me not quoting your whole post even though you changed it after I quoted it

I was adding to it as you quoted it. Be honest. It's hard, but be honest.

And yet you still whined about me not quoting the entire post BE honest

If you think calling you out is whining, OK. Remember, it is your character that is at judgement here.

Watch what SP does below.

 

[Skull Pilot]

EdtheCynic drives Skull Pilot before him.

Hardly

But then again you people think a lower than expected increase in government spending is a cut in spending so i wouldn't expect you to understand that a lower tax rate is a tax cut

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, he did it. He continues to defend the indefensible. No character.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If their tax rate went down they got a tax cut

Why is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't matter if they got a refund or not

And all the people in the 15% bracket got a tax cut because the portion of their income that was taxed at 15% is now taxed at 12%

If they paid no taxes at 15% and they paid no taxes at 12% how much less tax did they pay at 12%?
ZERO at 15% minus ZERO at 12% equals ZERO.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The tax rate is all that matters.

The fact that we have far too many deductions and giveaways in the tax law is a horse of a different color

No, the cash in your pocket is all that matters, and if on the same income you NET the same cash in your pocket at 15% as 12% then you got NO tax cut in reality no matter how big a tax cut you got on paper, because the black and white money you got on paper is not the kind of green paper money you can spend.

Why is that so hard to understand?

All money is nothing but numbers on paper.

Try to buy a gallon of milk with black and white numbers on paper and see what happens.

I do it all the time

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are right, Slade. Let's see if Skull Pilot can get over his pathology and admit you are right.

You admit that you whined about me not quoting your whole post even though you changed it after I quoted it

I was adding to it as you quoted it. Be honest. It's hard, but be honest.

And yet you still whined about me not quoting the entire post BE honest

If you think calling you out is whining, OK. Remember, it is your character that is at judgement here.

Watch what SP does below.

It's not up to me to check back and see if you changed a post I quoted

Maybe you want to not post something until you actually form a complete thought

 

[edthecynic]

you people think a lower than expected increase in government spending is a cut in spending

And of course, that is a complete misrepresentation of what people actually say, rather than what YOU think they think. You are as bad a mind reader as you are a mathematician.

What people actually say is an increase in spending on a government service that does not keep up with the increases in inflation and population growth is a CUT to those SERVICES.

 

[edthecynic]

If they paid no taxes at 15% and they paid no taxes at 12% how much less tax did they pay at 12%?
ZERO at 15% minus ZERO at 12% equals ZERO.

Why is that so hard to understand?

The tax rate is all that matters.

The fact that we have far too many deductions and giveaways in the tax law is a horse of a different color

No, the cash in your pocket is all that matters, and if on the same income you NET the same cash in your pocket at 15% as 12% then you got NO tax cut in reality no matter how big a tax cut you got on paper, because the black and white money you got on paper is not the kind of green paper money you can spend.

Why is that so hard to understand?

All money is nothing but numbers on paper.

Try to buy a gallon of milk with black and white numbers on paper and see what happens.

I do it all the time

At some point you will have to pony up the actual greenbacks to cover the plastic, and they won't accept a tax cut that exists ONLY on paper.

 

[Slade3200]

Do you understand why 10% of somebody’s income who makes 30K a year is more impactful on their livelihood than 10% of somebody who makes 3 million a year? Do you understand the difference between people who live paycheck to paycheck vs somebody making payments on their third vacation home?

That has nothing to do with the so called poverty line.

See I obviously do need to explain things to you if you thought I was talking about the poverty line. You keep skirting around to these cherry picked arguments based on word games that you’re playing instead of addressing the topic. You either didn’t understand the point I was making or you have no substantive argument to address it so you pick these weak diversions to argue about. Like I said before, your game is transparent and weak. Queue the insults...

Keep telling yourself that.

The real answer is that 10% will only have a real impact of those people spend more than 90% of their income every year.

True and for many people 90% of their income goes towards paying rent, utilities, food, and interest on debt. For others those expenses are a drop in the bucket. Am I wrong?

how many is many?

Many millions. Am I wrong?

 

[Geaux4it]

Since judging tax cuts by their gross dollar amounts is the liberal approach to judging all tax cuts signed by conservative presidents, let us apply that same approach to Obama's 2011 payroll tax cut--so we can see how misleading it is. Using that approach, we can say that most of Obama's tax cut did not go to low-income people but to the well-off and affluent! Ha! Let's see:

Obama's 2011 payroll tax cut reduced the payroll tax by 2 percentage points, from 6.2% to 4.2%. Let us examine who saved the most money per year:

Joe A who earned $20K per year saved $400.
Joe B who earned $50K per year saved $1,000, 250% more than Joe A!
Joe C who earned $100K per year saved $2,000, 500% more than Joe A!
Joe D who earned $150K per year saved $3,000, 750% more than Joe A!
Joe E who earned $200K per year saved $4,000, 1,000% more than Joe A!

Obama's 2011 tax cuts ended in 2013. Let's see who saved how much over the course of those three years:

Joe A saved $1,200.
Joe B saved $3,000.
Joe C saved $6,000.
Joe D saved $9,000
Joe E saved $12,000.

The money saved by those five people added up to $31,200, and $27,000 of it went to Joe C, Joe D, and Joe E. In other words, 86% of Obama's tax cut went to people who made over $100K per year, and only 14% of it went Joe A and Joe B. Totally unfair!

Clearly, Obama's tax cut was heavily weighted to the well-off and the affluent, not to the poor and low-income folks!

You see how silly, dishonest, and misleading this comparison is? This is what liberals are now doing with the Trump tax cuts. This is how they come up with the claim that 82%/85%/90% of the Trump tax cuts are going "to the rich."

How much did it save for the millionaires and billionaires?

$2,000, just like Joe D and E, the OP is lying scum.

Pelosi calls that crumbs

-Geaux

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are right, Slade. Let's see if Skull Pilot can get over his pathology and admit you are right.

You admit that you whined about me not quoting your whole post even though you changed it after I quoted it

I was adding to it as you quoted it. Be honest. It's hard, but be honest.

And yet you still whined about me not quoting the entire post BE honest

If you think calling you out is whining, OK. Remember, it is your character that is at judgement here.

Watch what SP does below.

It's not up to me to check back and see if you changed a post I quoted

Maybe you want to not post something until you actually form a complete thought

See I knew you would do this. You cannot accept responsibility for what you do. You are being swept along in front of Ed's and my arguments, and, that's on you.

 

[mikegriffith1]

We need to get a few things straight:

One, the OP proves that the same logic that liberals use against the Trump income tax cuts can be used against Obama's 2011 payroll tax cuts.

Two, there is no 47% when it comes to the payroll tax. If you work and only make $2K per year, you pay the payroll tax, period. Anyone who gets a paycheck from an employer, pays the payroll tax (and their employer pays 6.2% too, just like his employees). In fact, if you are self-employed, you are required to pay your own payroll tax.

Three, regarding those who don't have a federal income tax liability--i.e., they get back all or more than they pay--ok, so what's your point? Are you saying it's "unfair" that under the Trump tax cuts the rich pay a top marginal rate of 37% because the poor have an effective top marginal rate of 0%?

 

[JakeStarkey]

One, not it does not, Mike, and you know it.

Two, yes, everyone pays the payroll tax. And, yes, it was the GOP who forced it through.

Three, your comments are confused. Try again.

 

[mikegriffith1]

One, not it does not, Mike, and you know it.

Yes, it does, but you either can't understand the basic math involved or you don't want to admit it.

Two, yes, everyone pays the payroll tax. And, yes, it was the GOP who forced it through.

Huh??? The 2011 payroll tax cut was Obama's idea.

Three, your comments are confused. Try again.

What are you finding "confusing"? You say the Trump tax cuts favor the rich because the rich get more back in gross dollar amounts than do the poor and the middle class. Using this exact same logic, one can say that Obama's 2011 payroll tax cut was very unfair to the poor, because the affluent and the well off got much more back than they did in gross dollar amounts.

 

[edthecynic]

One, the OP proves that the same logic that liberals use against the Trump income tax cuts can be used against Obama's 2011 payroll tax cuts.

Two, there is no 47% when it comes to the payroll tax.

Which is why the two CAN'T be compared, you proved it better than I did, thank you.