Obamacare overcharged healthy & young people that needed insurance to help fund the cost of insurance for sick people

Parenthetically, the ACA subsidies play the worthy political role of CONCEALING THE FACT THAT THE ACA HAS BEEN A COMPLETE FAILURE(!), which is why the Democrats have been FRANTIC to see that they are funded at least through next November. The last thing they want is to have Republicans campaigning on the high premiums resulting from ACA.

How has it been a "failure? It did what it was supposed to do, it covered people who otherwise wouldn't have access to insurance.



Also, the percent of people unable to acquire health insurance was small. Slightly more than half got their insurance from work. Another 20% were on Medicaid. Then another 10% were earning an upper-middle class salary but chose not to buy.

50 million people were uninsured. This is not a small number.

You think 10% of the population was going uninsured because they were so rich, they didn't have to worry about getting sick.

Here's how the actual numbers played out.

150 million people got covered through their jobs.
100 million got covered through government programs - Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, the VA.
30 million were covered through self-insurace, which was really expensive because it wasn't part of a pool. ONly really healthy people could afford it.
50 million were uninsured.
 
No, I'm not wasting my time on dishonest debate. Your answer had nothing to do with the points I was making.

I've noticed that socialists hate to admit that they are socialists.
 
Your dumb ass couldn't define Socialism on a bet.

Socialism is not "the government mandates something".

YOU want single payer healthcare i.e. socialized medicine. You are a socialist, Joe.
 
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Obamacare overcharged healthy & young people that needed insurance to help fund the cost of insurance for sick people​

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YOU want single payer healthcare i.e. socialized medicine. You are a socialist, Joe.

Socialism is collectivization.

You want people to pay into collective pools run by greedy corporations... that's also socialist. And of course, most of those corporations are propped up by the government through Medicaid, Medicare, SCHIP, etc.

What's not socialist is that no one pays into any program; they either pay for their treatment or die from lack of treatment if they can't afford it. Everyone agrees that's unacceptable in a modern country.

The problem is that the Corporate Socialism you are just fine with doesn't work. The corporations have to make a profit, and they do this by denying coverage. The hospitals have to make a profit, so they do that by charging a patient $119.00 for a handful of baby aspirin and a sip of Mylanta. (which is exactly what happened to me two weeks ago when I thought I was having a heart attack, but it turned out to be a gastric problem.) The poor people who can't get coverage just show up at the ER and walk away from their bills, and frankly, I don't blame them.

So you sit there and fume that some undocumented immigrant gets treated at the ER because they can't afford to see a GP, not realizing that you've created the problem to start with by not doing what should have been done to start with.
 
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Obamacare overcharged healthy & young people that needed insurance to help fund the cost of insurance for sick people

Except that private insurance companies do the same thing. Most people who get health insurance aren't negotiating with an insurance company based on their good health. They are paying into a company plan that their employers subsidize.

Now, when I was young, I didn't give a crap about insurance. When I found myself between jobs, I didn't think twice about going without it. (I also have the "Break Glass" option of a VA hospital, but I never used it.)

Now, I'm in my 60s, and my wife and I both have chronic, but non-life-threatening medical issues. We get tested regularly for things that often effect old people. When I found myself between jobs, damned right I paid for that ******* COBRA until I could get temporary insurance.

This is why the private insurance model simply doesn't work. Businesses shouldn't have whole HR departments running this stuff, but they do. Insuring employees becomes a significant consideration when hiring. In short, the whole system is broken.

And no other industrialized country does it like this. Every last one of them either has single-payer or government-subsidized insurance for all.
 
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How has it been a "failure? It did what it was supposed to do, it covered people who otherwise wouldn't have access to insurance.
And made health insurance so unaffordable that now even the upper-middle class can’t afford it.
50 million people were uninsured. This is not a small number.

You think 10% of the population was going uninsured because they were so rich, they didn't have to worry about getting sick.

Here's how the actual numbers played out.

150 million people got covered through their jobs.
100 million got covered through government programs - Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, the VA.
30 million were covered through self-insurace, which was really expensive because it wasn't part of a pool. ONly really healthy people could afford it.
50 million were uninsured.
That’s what I said: a minority of 20% were uninsured. So Obama destroyed a system that was working for 80% of Americans.

And it IS true that of the 50 million, a good percentage were earning more than $75,000 (in 2010 dollars, so around $110,000 in current dollars) simply decided they’d rather spend $500 a month on something else,

Obama, a community activist, destroyed the entire system.
 
Socialism is collectivization.

You want people to pay into collective pools run by greedy corporations... that's also socialist. And of course, most of those corporations are propped up by the government through Medicaid, Medicare, SCHIP, etc.

What's not socialist is that no one pays into any program; they either pay for their treatment or die from lack of treatment if they can't afford it. Everyone agrees that's unacceptable in a modern country.

The problem is that the Corporate Socialism you are just fine with doesn't work. The corporations have to make a profit, and they do this by denying coverage. The hospitals have to make a profit, so they do that by charging a patient $119.00 for a handful of baby aspirin and a sip of Mylanta. (which is exactly what happened to me two weeks ago when I thought I was having a heart attack, but it turned out to be a gastric problem.) The poor people who can't get coverage just show up at the ER and walk away from their bills, and frankly, I don't blame them.

So you sit there and fume that some undocumented immigrant gets treated at the ER because they can't afford to see a GP, not realizing that you've created the problem to start with by not doing what should have been done to start with.
Illegal aliens get treated at the ER for free, while law-abiding Americans have to drive 10 miles to an Urgent care with blood gushing from their finger because they can’t afford the $6,000 deductible from their Obamacrap policy.

You socialists have put in a system where illegals get free care and honest people can’t afford it.
 
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Lisa, whining loudly because poor people are getting stuff. She basically has two modes: "Whining about poor people getting stuff" and "Whining everyone hates her and her people", and she never, ever sees the connection.

And made health insurance so unaffordable that now even the upper-middle class can’t afford it.

Actually, it was unaffordable before the ACA, that was the thing.

That’s what I said: a minority of 20% were uninsured. So Obama destroyed a system that was working for 80% of Americans.

Well, it would kind of suck if you were one of the 20%, but that would require empathy, and I don't think you understand that concept.

And it IS true that of the 50 million, a good percentage were earning more than $75,000 (in 2010 dollars, so around $110,000 in current dollars) simply decided they’d rather spend $500 a month on something else,

What's a good percentage? Give us a number, Lisa. Only about 15% of the population was making that kind of money in 2010, and most of them were insured either through their employers or self-insured.

Obama, a community activist, destroyed the entire system.

No, the system was already destroyed. Obama slapped some bandages on it because Joe Lieberman (D-Israel) blocked a Medicare Buy-in for those over 55 or a public option. That would have alleviated most of the problems. So instead, what we ended up with was RomneyCare Lite which is what Republicans said for years they wanted, until the Black Guy Did It.

Illegal aliens get treated at the ER for free, while law-abiding Americans have to drive 10 miles to an Urgent care with blood gushing from their finger because they can’t afford the $6,000 deductible from their Obamacrap policy.

Oh, my gosh, not blood gushing from their Finger!!!!

Here's the thing. Two weeks ago, I had some chest pains and wanted to go the urgent care, but the urgent care told me to go to the ER. Turns out it wasn't a heart attack (thankfully), but they still charged $6300 for essentially first aid. My responsibility was 1551.00.

Now, you have a point that the ER has become the first choice for treatment for those poor people you hate sooooo much (seriously, what kind of person spends time hating people who are less fortunate than they are?) But that's because we dont have free clinics in the poorer neighborhoods that treat people for reasonable costs. They get billed, but they walk out on their debts, which further lock them into poverty when it screws up their credit scores.

You socialists have put in a system where illegals get free care and honest people can’t afford it.

Nope, that would be you greedy ***** who want the Insurance Companies and Health Care companies to make obscene profits.

Again, single payer, then everyone gets care. Problem solved.
 
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I'm hearing this morning in news stories about the end of the Schumer shutdown this notion of "the Republican Healthcare crisis".
WTF is THAT?
I'll tell you what that is.....GASLIGHT BULLSHIT.
The ACA is ALL a Democrat PROBLEM.
They OWN IT.
Not ONE Republican voted for Obama's SCAM.
So sick of the FALSE NARRATIVES from the demented LEFT. 🙄
Republicans all voted for the healthcare scheme they put forward.

We hear ya.
 
No, I'm not wasting my time on dishonest debate. Your answer had nothing to do with the points I was making.

There's nothing dishonest about calling a socialist program socialist.
 
No, I'm a pragmatist.

Capitalism is fine when you are selling corn chips.

The model doesn't work with health care.

I can always choose not to eat chips if they are too expensive. I can't decide to leave health issues untreated. In an unregulated market, that means the Hospitals can charge whatever the hell they want, which is why a visit to the ER for what I thought might be a heart attack (thankfully it wasn't) costs $6300.00.

I would have liked to not go to the ER, but my GP wasn't able to squeeze me in for another two weeks, and I called the urgent care, and they told me to go to the ER with the symptoms I was having.

Here's the reality- PRIVATE INSURANCE IS A FORM OF SOCIALISM.

Everyone is paying into a pool.

If you pay into the pool of 10% of your salary, and you don't have any medical issues that year, you are subsidizing everyone else's health care.

If you even have a minor incident like I had last week, other people are subsidizing your care.

Now insurance works fine for cars or houses, because statistically, you just aren't going to have that many catastrophic events.

It doesn't work so well for people because, everyone gets sick and everyone dies, eventually.

Everybody isn't paying into one pool. You are just unable to debate in an honest way.
 
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There's nothing dishonest about calling a socialist program socialist.

But you are fine with socialism run by UnitedHealthcare or Cigna.

Everybody isn't paying into one pool. You are just unable to debate in an honest way.

It's one pool from my perspective. Right now, the only pool I can pay into is Blue (Double) Cross. I don't really have another option other than quitting my job. Except now Blue Cross is talking about jacking up the company's premiums by 35%.

So we will be paying into another pool next year.
 
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