Obama to rape victim: A gun may not have helped; At least your rapist was unarmed!

[2aguy]

He may as well have said...."Uh young lady....while the rapist was pounding you...did you ever consider he may have been raised as an underprivileged child and just needed a hug...and you shooting him would not have solved anything...afterall...you may have missed also. And my goal...um..ummm...is to ensure rapists like that in the future are never armed when they are plowing you. Oh...and that they're never shot either."

Did the rapist look like his son?

 

[2aguy]

Another stupid, bullshit thread.

Women would be safer from rapists with mace and self-defense training, not guns. Since men are generally stronger than women, they'd wrestle the gun away, rape them, and then shoot them dead.

Do you wanna be raped and then shot dead or just raped? Take your pick, dummies.

Obama is right. It is totally debatable since guns hardly ever come into play in acts of heroism, contrary to the movieland fantasy that RWNJ trolls live in.

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you. Actual research shows that a gun is the most effective way for a woman to stop a rape...nothing else comes close......the second best tool...a knife. The myth of the victim being easily disarmed is just that, a myth.

And guns are used 1.5 million times a year to stop violent attack......according to bill clinton and supported by obama's CDC in 2013.

 

[2aguy]

Another stupid, bullshit thread.

Women would be safer from rapists with mace and self-defense training, not guns. Since men are generally stronger than women, they'd wrestle the gun away, rape them, and then shoot them dead.

Do you wanna be raped and then shot dead or just raped? Take your pick, dummies.

Obama is right. It is totally debatable since guns hardly ever come into play in acts of heroism, contrary to the movieland fantasy that RWNJ trolls live in.

Here you go.....a woman stops two full grown men, one armed with a bat.....she had a gun and they didn't take it away from her.........

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."

 

[2aguy]

Another stupid, bullshit thread.

Women would be safer from rapists with mace and self-defense training, not guns. Since men are generally stronger than women, they'd wrestle the gun away, rape them, and then shoot them dead.

Do you wanna be raped and then shot dead or just raped? Take your pick, dummies.

Obama is right. It is totally debatable since guns hardly ever come into play in acts of heroism, contrary to the movieland fantasy that RWNJ trolls live in.

Dear Interpol
None of that addresses the root cause of criminal illness and abuse in the rapist.
You keep focusing on the targeted, potential or actual victims.
What about the sickness in the criminal where it all starts?

This reminds me of the abortion issue where the legislative debates end up focusing on women.
Who is policing the men when it comes to decisions to have sex to begin with?

Of course, the larger issue is why our society brings up predatory men, but to the direct matter of women defending themselves, having a gun is pointless if you are suddenly accosted by a strong man and don't have the training instilled in your body to be able to react accordingly.

A woman is safer walking with her keys between her fingers in a dark parking lot than she'll ever be from trying to get at her gun. And with good self-defense training, those keys would be all you need.

A gun could keep you safe, but it also dramatically increases the chances that you end up dead because of it.

You are just "funning us..." right? You aren't serious....right?

 

[2aguy]

The Woman was concerned that new regulations would make it harder for her to buy a gun. The answer is NO.

Unless she is going to buy the gun from a friend......then it will cost more and take more time and it will be an inconvenience because she will have to get a gun store to do a background check on a gun purchase that isn't from their store........

 

[2aguy]

Anyone else see that disastrous 10 seconds of his CNN lecture? A brave woman came on national TV and said she was raped by an intruder in college and now she feels it is a mothers responsibility to own a firearm.

Obama told her it's "debatable" if a gun would've helped her.....and said it's nice to at least make sure her rapist is unarmed!!!

What a piece of shit.

This is terrible.

The only thing I can think of, had I been his press advisor, is to focus on curing and screening mental illness, and to develop agreed programs for earlier intervention, prevention
and correction, such as how to resolve complaints of sex abuse and relationship abuse
at the first sign of an oppressive, coercive attitude showing disregard for the consent of others.

The issue is preventing rape, not waiting for an attack to happen then hope you can use
enough force to stop it.

But guess what?
That's exactly the tactic Obama uses politically:
To force your way onto others until a greater force stops you. Ignore the dissent or consent of the people affected, but push until they either stop you, give up fighting, or are too weak or divided to defend themselves against greater political forces.

Obama and the politicized liberals use this attitude to bully down others.

So he is not in any position to say it is unhealthy and abusive, if he uses COERCION himself to dominate by force, against the will of others screaming NO,
instead of respecting consent of others, including objections, and resolving conflicts.

How can you teach people that no means no,
when half the country has been objecting to things like
the federal mandates that Obama keeps pushing anyway?

If I were in charge of his campaigns and public strategies, that's one area I would insist he address
so that his arguments don't contradict themselves. You can't say you are for consensus building,
but then use coercion to force your way, your agenda on others despite their express dissent.

CNN claims he didn't know who would ask the questions or what they would ask. And ya know...I believe them. How else could Obama had said that?

Telling a rape victim a gun probably wouldn't have helped (unless she shot the rapist) that it takes a lot of training to shoot someone (Thugs seem to do it, and she may have sought training) and HEY...let's be sure your raper isn't armed!!! Then you get to live in shame at least!!

My opinion is he would have been more upset had she shot her rapist if she had a gun... I am done with President Obama...

Ahhhhhh...but he isn't done with you.....

 

[jc456]

Anyone else see that disastrous 10 seconds of his CNN lecture? A brave woman came on national TV and said she was raped by an intruder in college and now she feels it is a mothers responsibility to own a firearm.

Obama told her it's "debatable" if a gun would've helped her.....and said it's nice to at least make sure her rapist is unarmed!!!

What a piece of shit.

I'll liken it to this gem brough up back in the 1990s:

Texas Candidate's Comment About Rape Causes a Furor

Excerpt:
"It ''questions his ability to understand the kinds of problems faced by the people of Texas,'' said Ann Richards, the State Treasurer and a runoff candidate for the Democratic gubernatorial nomination. ''Rape is a crime of violence.''"

 

[2aguy]

Anyone else see that disastrous 10 seconds of his CNN lecture? A brave woman came on national TV and said she was raped by an intruder in college and now she feels it is a mothers responsibility to own a firearm.

Obama told her it's "debatable" if a gun would've helped her.....and said it's nice to at least make sure her rapist is unarmed!!!

What a piece of shit.

do us a favor and talk about things you know something about... like cartoons.

the average rape lasts six hours and the initial attack is by surprise. the person's weapon is then taken from them by the criminal.

idiot.

And of course you have no idea what you are talking about......

And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[2aguy]

dont be naive.
rape victim had rna money .
bribe
she sold herself and her child like whore for rna money
yes i know.everybody love rape victim .but true is true.
if you are smart and you watched obama and rape victim speech at cnn
you can understant ............
please dont be naive

Do you mean DNA because RNA is not even part of this topic......?

 

[dani67]

dont be naive.
rape victim had rna money .
bribe
she sold herself and her child like whore for rna money
yes i know.everybody love rape victim .but true is true.
if you are smart and you watched obama and rape victim speech at cnn
you can understant ............
please dont be naive

Do you mean DNA because RNA is not even part of this topic......?

sorry.nra

 

[2aguy]

dont be naive.
rape victim had rna money .
bribe
she sold herself and her child like whore for rna money
yes i know.everybody love rape victim .but true is true.
if you are smart and you watched obama and rape victim speech at cnn
you can understant ............
please dont be naive

Do you mean DNA because RNA is not even part of this topic......?

sorry.nra

It was funnier when you used RNA......

 

[bucs90]

Seeing liberals on TV and radio now smearing the rape victim. Classy.

Obama actually told her a gun probably wouldn't have helped her....and it's a good thing her attacker was at least unarmed.


Combined with the lefts open welcome to ISIS......American women are getting defensive and arming themselves. I can't blame them....especially since half of American "men" have become bearded hipster pussies who are basically as useful as an extra purse to a woman.

 

[couch protester]

Another stupid, bullshit thread.

Women would be safer from rapists with mace and self-defense training, not guns. Since men are generally stronger than women, they'd wrestle the gun away, rape them, and then shoot them dead.

Do you wanna be raped and then shot dead or just raped? Take your pick, dummies.

Obama is right. It is totally debatable since guns hardly ever come into play in acts of heroism, contrary to the movieland fantasy that RWNJ trolls live in.

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+ScEcqiUv5j8lG9gx9ZpWL4RnvjC+JyMgeyuVxyvNr0Y3GcRY7aXLFhsTsw9OMZpG5hVTlznfINMuAXJ7YZBK+NWDi3DtfIH1+GPLblXLVdULFxiGMkt7cCpe26Y2oAGWJO2AM/UKghwMajkZPkwJ+s1PcJtAnKJR6gorpLixZUra8ajk/Bxv6yNIB9tL3O4pZbXu5AwfV/tSLYVSDQRFnEVcFT9LQRz35/YakLnbYcqLhJAlOd8glfR57V3Iua7eCc2vN+ReJDHTXUZ3xSzrXKpvXreUci0mG3pablTGEnNSzYkhypsz4NPIztScqZqTtRI1LZNILtSqPUsWUZoKcUZpB2pCpGwPxi+37DQpDhz/GL7fsNHV0zuoAijUUDRBqzK2RuBS1jzpOQ11anepaRJk7UylG9PByppKaql4t6N6TszvS8i0ZpEPS8L02YV3E1FHcJSMTb08fcUyZcGg7voA8bKfEH342qk28edsVe0OapiLplZeWGYfXXDzdbd/D2cxRGub5sKQDj1czTgPgZJphBIGk1N7PVXmnL2Xg84BD4+n/AM1d43Kpk1VOGkA7YHuqz/xmiRjUR7asTXBjdQzEa106T4EY9mRTWz4qA2mRSren93galob4y+hByHLOMY2ppxmxWRDsD5Y8K168bPZP216pA3ppxSUeG+Kp/Cb1kYxudxy9I8CD41LLNlsVi1NfSwJVlOccxt6aedpUddvjT55H/n24p4K9ng6eP8juFCK5xQD0RNeh53LtSBSlZK4Y7UC8L13qpGGlCtQHRBq4zR5oOiTXSpkVxSqmnSlbFcSL7fsNCurM/GL7fsNFWdmkLGlIzLilC+DSV2+2ajVN5N6Ut+dIxSg0TSEGrYzKm15U1m50dvKSKsHQfovb3z3JuRIezMQTTLLGAGUk7Iwzv51GrdIS1p0RUp024Fwmzt7gx3AS7jjLRxNeyGTXgFR2TSZbPljepHhfQ21js/hnEy0jdn20i65BFEmNWhI4yNZA2ycknPLlV0xclPlNFCatHTLoXBFaNfWBdBGnbPEXd45IcamKiQkowXJGCB4EeQ6A9CrS7s1uJxM0jSXAJWeZBhJ5EUBUcAYVQOVNLMkADSU0fjVzHQKyngaSwuJlbLqr9s8qdohKlXSUnbUMEbH01n11ds1nJJ8l+xkO30XVTkD1MDTSzLZ1GaqnSGMpOWHJsN+4/WPrrZeFdCuDXOr4PMZtONXZX0smnVnGrTKcZwfcarHWZ0Z4VbWsoilxeKYdETXbvLh5Yw+InkJOULHly38Kznh7TS4eT1u2bvcAr6PGmFxeDkNzWydYHVzw+14dcXEETrJGgZSZpWAJZR8lmIOxNH0r6teHQcNnuYoWEqW5kVjLKcOFzkqWwd/A1yx8Gna/k7+MWtWl1ZjYj6/qNS8lrPIVOCccwTj6vCtS6u+r6wuuHW9zNHIZZFYsVmmQEiRgMKrADYDlUf1WdCIr2Frm6aR4w5jjiDsinQAHdypDMdWVAzjC5Oc7W+OpPPPqF4bwwY78mOWw3A5+I9Nc8buYYlz2zjLbYVtz5eVaHB0I4Vews9lrhKu8YkjaQASRtghopCVcZG+RuDsRzrNOKma5gZ5URBbxzBFjGxljDKznPmybL4Y5nNS+OzutY+WZdQzSXtmiOMFWYE+ONsVJh8N9VaDwXoNwS4BNvJ2rKFL9leSOVLZxq0Sd3OD7jUB1k9HeF2VpOYZtF4qoY42u3aTvOoJELyHV3S3hWb+Pb9J+VNa0rF1cHGeZGTjfwBP7qYcP6ZxsPjFKn8Xcf7itcn6vOFRQGaYSoiprdjc3GAMZJOH9NU/rH6rLSCya8sS69mFdkLmRJIiRkqW3BGc5zjY+uu+GPrHDyeT3RtrxeB11CRQM473dPuNPkkB3BB9RqZ6FdWnDrjh1vcSwu0jwh2btpQC2++kNgVWepvoDHfRNdXTSdkr9nHErlNbKAXZ2U5x3sAAjcGum3PZ5JSbPmrxb9DuE3YmS17SN4ZGhd4pJlZJVAJGHJWTmNyCKpfQDo58Iv7yzv2eT4KAqlHeLUdZAf4thnK6Tg8s02bEh5U4PKpf/AOhoTxf4KpmFqlos8i9vMWMrySRp8YW1AYUnAI+RUL0njtLO/a3ikKKsKFhJNJJqlkYkAdox06UUcv7SouybmktRzSyEMMggjzG499AxVvjRSsddg1woxXVZ0pxZfhF9v2GhRWX4Rfb900dYKrsrUmRkUkz0vEaS6WzZnGmDTrsqUeOiJqWrIVh2q/dUfyrz8uD7hrP4q0Dqi+VeflwfcNWJl0iOt/ooyQ3vEFnGGWMGExA89EJxJqyNjnlVx6f/ADNdforfcrMus+LtLu/UlzhE0rrfQD2CMO5nTnO/LnWndLkM/BpxCpkMloSgQai+pARpA559Fac3HHfmKb+7pP2Y0h1PfNUP5y5/aZaX6S9zgc4fukWDoQdiGMGnB9OTikeqFccLiHlLdD/3MtA84VaLwyxkI7S5CvPOeyQFyXdnKqmfDlz8PCsj4S3xKMcd8Fzg5GXJc4PiMtWn9Ux/kT/pd3+uasWbpHBEroxOpJJV0AHwkbGPDGMUWVqXVLj4Re4GPi7T7biqn1mY+H33LOm3x5/glqc6ieJi4kvpApUAWy4O527c5/7qz/rqP89yeq3+4tEeieP8HjvLaS2lLBJFCsVIDYyDsSCPDyqJ6xU08JvFHIWzj3LikutOVl4RdsrFWEakMpII768iOVH0+P8AM11+it9ygT6pB/NFp+RJ+teqp1J9JYkiNjMwSQyNJAW2WVZN2VTy1qwbbxBGM71auqM54PaH8ST9a9Ufqo6HWV/ZPJdRvJIlxIn4aZAAoRkwqOF5MDnFReOVh6R9E7221S8LuZViLvLLaL2eolzl2gd0OTnfQ3sI5VU+G3CdkDHkqdT975RZ2LOW5blidsDyrSermS67CZLpZB2VzNFCZQ2toFb4slm3ccwGOc45msrkQCW50nui7vNIA+iJ5OXo51y82/V6PxrzYuHVI4N1ekDHxVpty+nc+FUfrnGeI3X6PCT7Ek8aufU3Nqub70RWgHq1XB/fVO65FJ4jdeXwaEn/ACPVnGEZvPkv9ts47wsXVjJbmTsxLDoL4zpBA3xkZ99Vbrb4gLThDwhJH1xpbhwuUXkuqRvo7DbzJFS3WD8zXX6K33aadM9+ATZ3/kanfz0Kc++urgd9WvzPafo4/fUJ1A/NK/npvtFTfVr8z2n6OP31AfwfZlbhWkHdJ5Qw8idLD6mFBVujvWNbcMueJRTxTOz300gMYQgDOnfU677VKdU3Go7zi/ErqJWVJY4WVXADDGFOQpI5qfGpboN0RieXiL3tjG5a+mMbTwqxMZwQULrupzzG3OmPVtHEvHOLJAiJGojRUjUKilSFYBV2HeBz6c0GoR2iiV5fpOqIT+KhcqPfI3vryX0q4i8t9dSS912nkBU/R0sUVc+gKB7K9Q2/FP5xmtSeVtBOo9ckyP8AdT315667uD/B+KSsBhZ1WdfLLZV/+5CfbQVqz4jJHvHKVPoP7qm7LpXMuO0xIPTs3sI/2qpRjA3rpZT7PL/aptpqFh0jglwNWhvJsD2A8jUtmsdjl/5zqT4dxiWI5RzjyPeX3HlTa7azYHvr7fsNCq90Z6TRyyIrdx99ie62FOcH9xoUKb6aVjolFDlWWy4Ga4cVzFJvXTGlHEbb1KcI45dWZkNs8IEugsJImc5UEDBWRcDB8qinHjSiSZG9JUs2O5u5Z55JpiheQqW0KUTuqEGFLMeS+dTnAekN5ZoIoJI3hHyYplYmMbnTHKjAhfIMGxyG2Kqd7xeOAan3J+So5n/x6aq3Eul08myYiH4pOr3+Fb25tL6S9J5rnSt7cQxwhgwgjUqrspypkZ2LPg4OBpGRyNQcHWlPYxCCzeCVA8rgPDJkdpI0hy4kAbdzjAG1ZjJIzHLEsfMkk+81zTYvvR/rZvrOIxRJblTJJKdSOTqkYs3KQbZO1Ua6nLuztjLMzHHLLEk499J0KiLR0K6eXPDBKLZYm7XRq7RWbGjVjTpYY+Uajuk/SSa+ujdzBBIdGQgITuAAbFifDzqHos1Rf+kHW7f3dtJbSpbiORdLFEcNgEHYmQjw8qf8a6z7+a2e1kW20SQhG0xuGCuvgTIRnHjisxAqw8YhPbHswXAUBtAZgpUYwdtjyrN38ax19Wbo51pX1nbx2sa2/ZxgqpaN2fBYtviQA7k+FI9Eek9zZOzW0qjXjWjrqicjkSoYFSOWQRt51U0IProiQDs4B9dcrla9ExxjWOKdat866AYIARu8aM0m/ihdtK+0GqXLxZUULGxJwfSSTuSxPiTkk+mq2JM/Sz7c0rHMg+kvvFZu73y3j6z/AJWvod0purFpXgMWZggcyozfILldAV1x8s86PjnEpL2WWadk1yIsZ7NCqhVBAwGZjnvHxqtC8Uc3HvopuMquy94/UKfveD/Xjz9aDx/p9eS2kkEz24ieMxtphcPgjGFJmIz7KRuem1/c8JlV/g4hEXYkCGTWVUqmz9oQDy5iswur55Dljt4DwHqFXm5tzHwU7YJ7HPn8Y+vbunHLzGceNd5udvNl63qC4L1u39tbR20aWxjjTQpZHLYHmRIBnfyqB6HdNbvhjs1sylXxrjkGqNiORIBBB35giq7RGqw1HinXhxCWMpHHBASMF1DM4PmmpsL7QaqfQ7ptc8OkllgEbvKAHMoZ84JbOQwOSTzNVsVzVRem60743ovtMAlEPwfSEfszHqL7rrznJ86jemXTW44m0TXKQqYg4UxqykhtJIbUxzjTt6zVYrpOYqDt23oZrhjvQBqNFAd6UV/L/nspBDvXWqgmOjkmbiL1v+rehSXRw/yqP/Hn/TahWkXyM5FKKuRTW0fwp0u1Yjq4KYrrXXUgzSLGgUDVAcY4+sJKr3n8vAes/upfj3GBAo04LtyB8B/WPoqhSyFmLHmSSfWasjGVKXV08janYsf+chSNChVYFR0VHTQFChQqh/0fte1ureL+vNEn+Z1H769kGGMELpXJzgaR4Yz4ekV5V6prbtOL2a+Uhf8A00Z//jXozi3EtPFbGHP4SG8PrK9kR9St7qDEulfRtZekxtmGI5pomIG2UZFeTGOXJxW38Y4lFw5bOKKBRHNcx2oVcIIw6sQwAG+6jb086ovTCz09KOHSY2kjH+ZO2B+orVq6y+Fi5+Awmc2+bwFZVwGV1t52TTnxLAD20FO/hA9GoVt0voo1SYSqkjKMdorA4LAc2BA38ifRVx6r7KOLhFoXVd4u0JIH/UYvv/mFUDrc6KXFtw8yScTurle1jXspcaMnOG9Yq+9KbkWPBVPIRR2qbeh4lPL20FE/hI2AUWcygD8NE2BjOdDLy9TVf+NQJ/EUx0rn+LX3wM/0Y1BfwhrPXwxZB/0riNj+Syun2uvuqw8a+YZv7tf9mNAz6pbON+DWodFYMkgbIG4Mjg7+qkeqHgot7S4t3UExXlxHlgMkLp0n2jB9tOuqOULwW1ZjhVSQk+QEjkmrfDbKhcqMF21t6W0qmfcgoPGN+mZpAOZkcAeksQK0PrAUxWEceT3niGMsNkWQ/JLb+G+kgY5g1TeGW3acQVDyNzvnlpDlm+oGrN1oXGY4F2AMkhAHLCxwjO6g82b0bcqizpn9cmujXJqoPNAUKFARrpTuK5owag6fnXJo2oqDpTtQzRGhRdpXoyP5VF/j+41Ci6L/ANKj/wAf3GoVUXSNsNUhEcioSQ70+s5a5x2OmbFJO1MukXEhDGGwCxOAM+81RbziMkhyzH1AkAeytM3I76Ty6rhvQFX6s/vqJNGTRGtOYUdEKOgFFQoZoDoqFA0Gl/wfbbVxXV/Z28r+9kT/AOdbpxbpRHBf2lk0ZL3IkKuCMJoUnccznGK8lcP4jNAS0E0kTEYJjdkJHPBKkZG1Ky8buWkWVrmdpE+RIZXLpnnpYnK8zyoPQ/WnKlvfcJvZCFjjnkikY8gJVXDH0AKxqxdNuj8l78CMTIBBewXLlid44w2dOAck5GK8q3/GbmYBZ7iaVQchZJXcA4xkBiRnc++tD6OSTvw3Sl3cKvZPiNZ2x3C6kBearsvdGPcTUt0sm2p9btuJ7KCMYZZby0QeIId8e0HNT/TXpEnD7R7l4zIqFBoBAJ1MFG58s59leS/48utKJ8Jn0IVKL2r6UKfIKLnClfDHKur3j11KpSW6nkQ4JV5ZHUkbjKsxFVHp3rRgFxwa6x/YrMP8BWX7FpTjXzDN/dr/ALMa8wP0jvChQ3dyUI0lDNIVK4xpK6sYxtig/SG8KGM3dwUK6ChmkKFCMFSurGMbYoPRPQEf/bafo1z9stWToHxj4Xw62nzlmiUOf/6INEn/AHKa8oQ8dukj7JLqdY8FezWWQJg5yNAbGDk7emis+O3US6IrqeNBkhElkRQTzwqsBQWLoVBq4lI2SNHwhs+ROUXxHi/nXfWhIO3iQHOmLUcaebyOfok74xz35c9qcdWGc3MhyThNyC2phrkwe6fFBz8+dQXTqUG+mAGApVOTL8lQD3W3H2bbbVPrXxAGio6VtLZpHSNBlnZUUZAyzEBRk7Dc1WSVAVNDordd3CK2rcFZEYY0dpkkHYFckeqjj6J3RBIRflMuDJGG1K7RkYJ/royjzoIQ0RqYXoxdYQmMKHXWGZ1VQDoxqJPdJ7SPAPPWKM9FrrAPZgAs6AllAynaas77D4p9/wAX0igh80Wamx0Uu98RA4dY/lrgsxQLg53GZU35d7111ZdE7iQjHZhS5Qv2iFQwDHcg/iEVNCDzQqXi6M3LAHQoGnUcyINC6BJmTJ7mUOoA+FIWnA55I+1RAyk4A1LqJ1IhwhOT3pUH+KqFOi/9Kj/x/cahUvwno3PBMkkulcPo06gSdUUh1LjmO4R6wfKhQS0i0Ldu9QoVydarfTCctMFPJVGB6W5n6qgqOhXT45CoEUKFUEaOhQoCaiFChQdYomo6FAKFHQoCxWndXsubZVIBCtKo9TFSfroUKzl01h2zS6XDsByDMPrNJijoVpkDQoUKAUKFCg0nquUGJgQCGn0nIzsBHy/zGqJx7+kz/npeQA+mfAUKFRb0Y0pbzNGyuhwyMGU+TKcg+8UKFVD2Lj1woUCU4UAAYUjAQxgEEbjSSMGuo+P3K8piN9XJeetpM8v6zsfbQoUDrg/SOdZUJIfSjRgMPo4XGSpBYjs0G5PIeQprN0huGOe0x3ncABe6ZNeoAkZx8a+2dtRoqFAB0guf7U7OrjZdmTRpIONvwabDY6RmjtukNyihVlICnUBpQ76mbxG4y7nB27x86KhQcvx24K6O1OkIyYwu6soQg7b90AAncDYVyOMz4wJCABgYCjG8Z2wNt4oz/h9dChQSnAuMTS3KiR9QYliNKgaljcKRgd0948ueTmhQoUH/2Q==

 

[OnePercenter]

Is this from the same line of thinking that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor,
and if you like your insurance you can keep it?

Interesting that Obama said the conceal/carry laws were left to the States.

Why the heck wasn't that policy followed with health care?
That's what the opponents were arguing, to leave these decisions to people and States!
If the President gets this for gun rights, why not with health care?

And only have govt manage the criminal cases, where the only people deprived of liberty go through "due process" to prove they commit violations
and are convicted of crimes BEFORE restricting freedom with regulations.

Then, for those with proven debts or costs,
it is justified to "lose liberty" and be held to given regulations as punishment by enrolling to regulate how much they pay back.

There is nothing wrong with govt regulating that people who incur costs to the public and govt pay it back.
But just not depriving ALL citizens collectively of liberty without "due process" first proving WHICH ones committed abuses or had such intent.

The Woman was concerned that new regulations would make it harder for her to buy a gun. The answer is NO.

Keeping your Doctor was eliminated by the trillion-net-profit/yr insurance industry, not ACA.

 

[OnePercenter]

My opinion is he would have been more upset had she shot her rapist if she had a gun... I am done with President Obama...

Her question was a concern that new regulations would make it harder for her to buy a gun. The answer is NO. Why do you make shit up?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Obama actually told her a gun probably wouldn't have helped her....and it's a good thing her attacker was at least unarmed.

[...]

I didn't watch Obama's tv appearance but I've read and heard about this comment. Did he even ask the woman about the circumstances of her attack with the objective of learning whether or not she might have been able to use a firearm against the rapist if she'd had one? Or did he just take it for granted she couldn't? And if so, didn't anyone challenge him with the question?

 

[emilynghiem]

JimBowie1958

A.

if anyone abuses a gun, if any criminals or mentally ill people get possession of guns,
if anyone suffers from a crime, abuse, trauma or other damage from abuse of a gun,
YES, we as a society have a problem with guns getting abused.

No, you confuse the tool with the tool user. The user is the problem, not the tool. It's as if you want to prevent deforestation by banning pull saws, seemingly unaware that there are still other options to the users and people are going to use chain saws any damned way.

A. I would compare this with how "problems with drunk driving"
are BOTH a driver safety issue AND a drinking/addiction problem.

I posted this comparison on another thread:

"If we don't solve the problem with drinking addictions, which aren't always visible,
we end up with drunk driving problems to find out where there was unchecked alcoholic addiction.

Same with the gun problem: if we don't solve the problem with mental illness, which isn't always visible,
we end up with gun problems to find out where there was unchecked mental illness.

It trickles or escalates into the worse problem, though both stem from mental illness or addiction first."

As for power tools, I read of ONE case in the news, where a mentally ill person got hold of a power tool and cut himself up:
Man slices arms with saws at Calif. Home Depot

If this happened a lot, yes, we would then notice a problem with "power tools getting abused by the mentally ill." And measures would focus on how to avoid this particular type of disaster.

B. RE: "You cannot place a requirement on a natural right. Imagine that you were telling feminazis that they have to get training before they can go get an abortion to murder their own babies, except that in the case of guns we are talking about a real natural right, not some SCOTUS myth."

Dear JimBowie1958 Freedom of Choice/Free will/Freedom of religion are natural rights.
However choosing things that don't exist in nature, such as
* guns (as opposed to unarmed defense that we have with or without manufactured weapons)
* induced abortions (as opposed to miscarriages without outside procedures)
DO require certain knowledge or understanding in order
to guarantee that person using that thing is fully informed or trained (such as in the case of guns, cars, or other mechanical equipment that takes more than natural instinct to use).

It is abusive or negligent to "let someone choose abortion" who isn't fully informed of the effects
or risks involved. Just because this may be more common than acknowledged doesn't make it right.. The risks of coercion and/or damage emotionally run high
compared with the low percentage of people with no ill effects from post-abortion syndrome.

With guns, if people are not safely trained and screened to handle arms responsibly,
(including treating all guns as if they are loaded, and locking them away safely)
this risks endangering the safety of others.

This becomes similar to training people to drive a car responsibly for the safety of oneself and others (though driving is a privilege not a right).

Yes, "human free will" is in our nature, and these other variations of the concept of "free choice."

But depending on the choices, some of these involve greater responsibility and/or training to ensure proper safety so there is no endangerment, abuse or negligence from lack of knowledge, experience, and/or safety precautions. Otherwise, endangering others can violate 'equal protection or security' which is an equal principle within the same set of Constitutional laws.

I would say the issue is how to address guns WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the rest of the Constitution. We don't want abuses of our rights and freedoms to create a breach of the peace and threats to security, or that will threaten other parts of the law on public safety and equal protections.

The key is how to find the right balance, where we neither have too much freedom (that is negligently getting abused) or imposing restrictions too much on freedom unnecessarily (where it deprives liberty without due process and is unfair to law abiding citizens).

 

[hadit]

Talk about a war on women!

With Obama and the gun grabbers I'm getting flashbacks to when we were advised the best way to deal with a rapist was to submit. Holy toledo I really can't believe we've come back full circle.

Now they're telling you to piss on yourself, hoping it will gross him out. Don't they realize that will just make him angrier and more determined to dominate you? Rape is less about sex than about control and domination.

 

[hadit]

[...]

Obama actually told her a gun probably wouldn't have helped her....and it's a good thing her attacker was at least unarmed.

[...]

I didn't watch Obama's tv appearance but I've read and heard about this comment. Did he even ask the woman about the circumstances of her attack with the objective of learning whether or not she might have been able to use a firearm against the rapist if she'd had one? Or did he just take it for granted she couldn't? And if so, didn't anyone challenge him with the question?

Challenge? You don't challenge The Fragile One! You take everything he says at face value. Remember, the emperor has nice new clothes and you are supposed to admire them.

 

[hadit]

Another stupid, bullshit thread.

Women would be safer from rapists with mace and self-defense training, not guns. Since men are generally stronger than women, they'd wrestle the gun away, rape them, and then shoot them dead.

Do you wanna be raped and then shot dead or just raped? Take your pick, dummies.

Obama is right. It is totally debatable since guns hardly ever come into play in acts of heroism, contrary to the movieland fantasy that RWNJ trolls live in.

How terribly limited is the intellect behind that screed.

I would prefer that all women learn some basic self defense and be able to choose the weapon(s) they are most comfortable using. Should they not wish to inflict deadly harm, they should use non-lethal forms of defense, and if they choose to utilize a firearm, they should only do so after deliberate thought. It has been noted that rapists commit fewer crimes after they've been shot.