Obama strongly considers withdrawing ALL troops from Afghanistan in 2014

[Peter Dow]

No more neo-con imperialism that has destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade.

That reads very much like you are listing events which occurred in recent years while the White House has been occupied by President Obama.

This is 2013 and President Obama became president first in 2009, which is 5 years ago now so current events would tend to be more his responsibility, than say President Bush's responsibility right?

Do you mean Obama policies which, according to you "destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade"?

I've never quite understood the utility of the "neo-con" label (literally it means "new conservative", right?) but I tended to assume the term was often used as a somewhat confusing label for President Bush era foreign policies used by those who were not Bush supporters.

But by "neo-con" do you also mean Obama policies too?

I do know what the word "imperialism" means and I know for sure that US policies have not been imperialism, either under President Bush or President Obama.

For the events in (and the policies of) Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Pakistan the key players are the generals and politicians in those countries.

Well as much as I would like to answer all questions in US politics - to do with the economy etc, this would take too long and go very far off topic.

The USA cannot afford neo-conservatism. Out of Afghanistan, now.

The USA cannot afford another 9/11. We need the Afghan war brought to a successful conclusion, not Afghanistan handed back to the Taliban to host more terror training camps.

 

[Peter Dow]

Our beloved Pres. Obama is making the right decision by leaving Afghanistan and letting our vaunted ally Pakistan police the region. ..

Would that be the Pakistani so-claimed "ally" which

• sponsored Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to do 9/11 and other acts of terror world-wide
• sponsored the Taliban to kill thousands of US and NATO troops in Afghanistan,
• dishonestly took $9 billion from the US to fund the very same Pakistani military whose intelligence service the ISI was sponsoring terrorism against the US?

As this news report said many years ago, with "allies" like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the USA doesn't need any enemies.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1dcwrucnAk]America's 'allies' Saudi & Pakistan: 'enemies' more like! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

No more neo-con imperialism that has destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade.

That reads very much like you are listing events which occurred in recent years while the White House has been occupied by President Obama.

This is 2013 and President Obama became president first in 2009, which is 5 years ago now so current events would tend to be more his responsibility, than say President Bush's responsibility right?

Do you mean Obama policies which, according to you "destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade"?

I've never quite understood the utility of the "neo-con" label (literally it means "new conservative", right?) but I tended to assume the term was often used as a somewhat confusing label for President Bush era foreign policies used by those who were not Bush supporters.

But by "neo-con" do you also mean Obama policies too?

I do know what the word "imperialism" means and I know for sure that US policies have not been imperialism, either under President Bush or President Obama.

For the events in (and the policies of) Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Pakistan the key players are the generals and politicians in those countries.

Well as much as I would like to answer all questions in US politics - to do with the economy etc, this would take too long and go very far off topic.

The USA cannot afford neo-conservatism. Out of Afghanistan, now.

The USA cannot afford another 9/11. We need the Afghan war brought to a successful conclusion, not Afghanistan handed back to the Taliban to host more terror training camps.

Your way has proved a failure in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

No. You don't get another chance.

 

[Desperado]

We need the Afghan war brought to a successful conclusion, not Afghanistan handed back to the Taliban to host more terror training camps.

A successful conclusion for the United States would be to remove all our men and material from the Middle East then cut all foreign aid to ALL countries in the area. We gain nothing by staying there.

 

[Peter Dow]

No more neo-con imperialism that has destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade.

That reads very much like you are listing events which occurred in recent years while the White House has been occupied by President Obama.

This is 2013 and President Obama became president first in 2009, which is 5 years ago now so current events would tend to be more his responsibility, than say President Bush's responsibility right?

Do you mean Obama policies which, according to you "destabilized Syria, Egypt, has made Iraq a close ally to Iran, has destabilized Afghanistan, ruined our foreign policy with Pakistan, nearly ruined our economy, and devastated our NG and AR units for a decade"?

I've never quite understood the utility of the "neo-con" label (literally it means "new conservative", right?) but I tended to assume the term was often used as a somewhat confusing label for President Bush era foreign policies used by those who were not Bush supporters.

But by "neo-con" do you also mean Obama policies too?

I do know what the word "imperialism" means and I know for sure that US policies have not been imperialism, either under President Bush or President Obama.

For the events in (and the policies of) Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Pakistan the key players are the generals and politicians in those countries.

Well as much as I would like to answer all questions in US politics - to do with the economy etc, this would take too long and go very far off topic.

The USA cannot afford neo-conservatism. Out of Afghanistan, now.

The USA cannot afford another 9/11. We need the Afghan war brought to a successful conclusion, not Afghanistan handed back to the Taliban to host more terror training camps.

Your way has proved a failure in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

My way has never been tried, in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

My name is "Peter Dow" not "George Bush" nor "Barack Obama". It's their way which has been tried, not mine.

My way is posted in another topic, and it is different in many respects.

So you didn't follow the link to that topic which I posted earlier?

It’s never too late to learn lessons and adopt an alternative competent and aggressive military strategy and to that end, I have published a detailed improved AfPak military strategy in this topic in the USMB Military forum.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/milit...istan-pakistan-and-win-the-war-on-terror.html

Well if clicking that link is too much effort here's a quote from that topic ...

My 4-point plan to beat the Taliban and win the war on terror

It's never too late to learn lessons and adopt an alternative competent and aggressive military strategy. I have already mentioned the outline points of my plan but I will explain those in a little more here and then provide a lot more detail in subsequent posts.

Point 1

* The US and Western allies ought to name Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt as "state sponsors of terrorism". We ought to name in addition, the other oil-rich Arab kingdoms who are also financial state sponsors of terrorism. This has implications such as ending bribes and deals with back-stabbing hostile countries and instead waging war against our enemies with the aim of regime change or incapacitating the enemy so that they can do us little more harm. The war could be of varying intensity depending on the enemy concerned and how they respond to our initial attacks, whether they wish to escalate the war or surrender to our reasonable demands.

Point 2

* We need to take the fight to the Taliban leadership wherever they are based in Pakistan. For example, there ought to be drone strikes on the University of Jihad. (Darul Uloom Haqqania, Akora Khattak, Pakistan) In addition, we ought to employ aerial bombing of all other bases for the Taliban in Pakistan. This may have to be extended to include certain Pakistani state bases which are supporting the Taliban - such as the Pakistani ISI headquarters mentioned a lot in the BBC documentary "SECRET PAKISTAN". If this is not handled very carefully, it could escalate into open war with the Pakistani military. I will explain how to manage Pakistan later.

Point 3

* We ought to seize control of Pakistani, Egyptian, Saudi and Iranian TV satellites and use them to broadcast propaganda calling for the arrest of all involved in waging terrorist war against the West. Often, these satellites are made, launched and maintained by Western companies and should be easy to take over. Other satellites provided to the enemy by non-Western countries could be jammed or destroyed. Air strikes against the enemy's main terrestrial TV transmitter aerials is another option to silence enemy propaganda.

Point 4

* When occupying territory, always ensure secure bases and supply routes from one base to another. I will provide a lot of details about how this can be done militarily.

No. You don't get another chance.

I've not even had one chance doing it my way.

It's the poor generals who been appointed by the Presidents and Prime Ministers who have had all the chances.

Now, if and when I am appointed as the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe (DSACEUR) the 2nd most senior NATO general, and the highest command position in our alliance which is open to a Briton - the top general is always by convention an American - then I'll get my chance.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to be deputy to Condoleezza Rice who I'd propose to be appointed as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), if she is available and wants the job.

Although Condi has had her chance as a senior diplomat, she'd not had a chance as a senior military commander though she'd have my confidence in that job.

 

[Sunni Man]

I've not even had one chance doing it my way.

It's the poor generals who been appointed by the Presidents and Prime Ministers who have had all the chances.

Now, if and when I am appointed as the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe (DSACEUR) the 2nd most senior NATO general, and the highest command position in our alliance which is open to a Briton - the top general is always by convention an American - then I'll get my chance.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to be deputy to Condoleezza Rice who I'd propose to be appointed as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), if she is available and wants the job.

Although Condi has had her chance as a senior diplomat, she'd not had a chance as a senior military commander though she'd have my confidence in that job.

Please contact your mental health professional and have your meds adjusted....ASAP ..

 

[Peter Dow]

We need the Afghan war brought to a successful conclusion, not Afghanistan handed back to the Taliban to host more terror training camps.

A successful conclusion for the United States would be to remove all our men and material from the Middle East then cut all foreign aid to ALL countries in the area.

Well that's pretty much what the Jihadis are looking for because that's what they want - the US to look the other way while they wipe Israel off the map.

After they've smoked Israel, I wouldn't count on the jihadis not making any further demands on the USA though.

We gain nothing by staying there.

What about secure oil supplies from the Persian Gulf? The West gains that with the US 5th fleet based in Bahrain with supporting armoured divisions as required to put down the likes of Saddam Hussein.

Well maybe you don't need Saudi oil so much these days?

Have you got that shale gas fracking sorted out yet?

 

[Desperado]

Have you got that shale gas fracking sorted out yet?

Actually it is working out quite well thanks

US shale output erodes Opec’s oil market share

By Ajay Makan in London

Oil supply from countries beyond the Opec producers’ cartel is set to grow by the most in two decades next year on the back of the US shale revolution, according to the International Energy Agency. ...
US shale output erodes Opec?s oil market share - FT.com

As far a Israel goes, they have nukes and can protect themselves without our help. They will be fine.

 

[Peter Dow]

Have you got that shale gas fracking sorted out yet?

Actually it is working out quite well thanks

US shale output erodes Opec’s oil market share

By Ajay Makan in London

Oil supply from countries beyond the Opec producers’ cartel is set to grow by the most in two decades next year on the back of the US shale revolution, according to the International Energy Agency. ...
US shale output erodes Opec?s oil market share - FT.com

Promising but we are still looking at 2020 before the US can relax about needing the Middle East's oil and gas supplies.

Drilling Contractor - Analyst: Numbers show that US is drilling its way to zero net oil imports

An increasing US crude production coupled with declining oil demand is resulting in a sharp reduction in the nation’s oil imports, according to Raymond James and Associates. They believe that US oil and gas companies have already worked toward reversing a nearly four-decade-long decline in oil supply.

Horizontal drilling, multi-stage fracturing drive surge in onshore volumes, key to reversing decades-long production decline

Coupled with declining US oil demand due in part to better vehicle efficiency, the shift is moving the country toward energy independence. Owed to fact that US oil and gas companies have already overcome government road blocks and geological challenges to increase oil supply, and a change in transportation habits has decreased oil demand, Raymond James expects that US net oil imports could reach essentially zero by 2020.

So it's perhaps several years too early to consider beginning to pull out the 5th Fleet from Bahrain?

I can think of a couple of powers who might make Bahrain an offer for the 5th fleet base facilities if and when the US does pull out.

France tends to be low on their own oil reserves and depends a lot on nuclear power. Germany doesn't have oil reserves either and they are going off nuclear power. I can see France and Germany leading the European Union to making a bid to take over security over-watch duties in the Persian Gulf if and when the US pulls out the 5th Fleet.

But the new bad boy in the Middle East to look out for in the long term could be China. There will come a day when China could probably use every drop of oil the Arabs and Iranians can pump. They've no naval "fleet" as such to sail from Bahrain, not yet, but one day ...

As far a Israel goes, they have nukes and can protect themselves without our help. They will be fine.

Wouldn't you rather wait until you hear that self-confidence from an Israeli prime minister or president before you go assuming it?

For generations to come it is likely the Jews will remain vastly outnumbered by Muslims in the world so a few nukes don't really provide all the protection Israel would like from its potential enemies in the region.

Well of course, we all know that Islam is said to be a religion of peace and therefore should offer no threat to Jews having their own Israeli state in peace and security.

But that doesn't seem to be the way Israel has been treated by surrounding Arab countries over the years.

Well the Arab spring has still to play out so things may change but right now I don't think Israel would welcome a "You're on your own" message from the USA.

 

[Desperado]

So it's perhaps several years too early to consider beginning to pull out the 5th Fleet from Bahrain?

Relax, Do yourself a favor and see where the US imports the majority of its oil.
(http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised)

Wouldn't you rather wait until you hear that self-confidence from an Israeli prime minister or president before you go assuming it?

You will never hear it from them. They would never say anything that would jeopardize their welfare checks, I mean foreign aid checks.

For generations to come it is likely the Jews will remain vastly outnumbered by Muslims in the world.

Jews are less that 3% of the World's population, of course they are going to be vastly outnumbered by just about anyone. So what, let them deal with it.

 

[Bleipriester]

I heard about that but they said it wasn confirmed by the White House. Germany is also leaving the country by the way.

 

[Peter Dow]

Looks like Obama is getting some "Dark Counsel" as regards pulling out from Afghanistan.

First to explain the phrase "Dark Counsel". Have you seen Lord of the Rings? Remember King Theoden and his adviser, Grima Wormtongue, who told him he was weak, could not fight and hope to win, turned out Grima was secretly an agent for Saruman?

OK remember now? That's "dark counsel".

So who is giving Obama, "dark counsel", who is his Grima Wormtongue?

Well maybe a lady called Robin Raphel, a former agent for Pakistan, a Washington Lobbyist in the pay of the Pakisan state. Obama has taken her on into her team, in charge of non-military aid to Pakistan, that's billions of dollars worth.

Wikipedia: Robin Raphel
Robin Lynn Raphel (born 1947) is a career diplomat who is currently the coordinator for non-military assistance to Pakistan with the rank of ambassador.

She was appointed by President Clinton as first Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, a newly created position, where her tenure was highly controversial. Regularly throughout her career, Raphel was described as being "warm" to totalitarian and military regimes, such as the the military governments in Pakistan, and conversely "cool" towards human rights considerations.

Her tenure as Assistant Secretary for Near East and South Asian Affairs was marked by perceived hostility towards India and Afghanistan, and "warmth" towards Pakistan and the Taliban, as was extensively documented by the media.

Famously, Raphel was hostile towards the Northern Alliance including its leader Ahmed Shah Massoud who she personally pressured to yield to the Taliban.

Raphel openly promoted the complete Taliban takeover of all of Afghanistan, until the events of 9/11. Some scholars believe that her perceived "favoritism" towards Pakistan and the Taliban indirectly, if peripherally, contributed to causing 9/11.

One commonly-cited factor was her aggressive promotion of Unocal's proposal for the Afghanistan Oil Pipeline, which would have required the defeat of the Northern Alliance.

As to U.S. relations with India, the largest and most prosperous state in the region, her tenure was marked as the the "darkest chapter since the Indo-Pakistan War of 1971".

Upon her dismissal from the Assistant Secretary position by President Clinton and her transfer to the backwater post of Ambassador to Tunisia, U.S. relations with India were reported to have "improved overnight".

She also served as a member of the Iraq Reconstruction Team during the Bush administration. She retired from the state department in 2005 after 30 years of service.

She soon became a lobbyist for Pakistan at Cassidy & Associates, a Washington lobbying form that was employed by the Government of Pakistan at an annual retainer of $1.2 million.

Raphel has been the senior Vice President at the National Defense University in Washington.

The Obama Administration appointed Robin Raphel as a member of the team of the late Richard Holbrooke, the Special Representative to the Af-Pak region.

Raphel is the enemy within. I would not let this woman within a mile of the White House, but there again, I'm not King Theoden, I mean, President Obama.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9eRkdIeuk]The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) - Gandalf Releases Theoden - YouTube[/ame]

 

[sambino510]

We should get every single American troop out of Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban are awful people, who do awful things, but it is brave, young, progressive minds like Malala Yousafzai, with their non-violent protest, who should fight this fight, and will win this fight, not our bullets and bombs. Even if non-violent protest does not prevail, it is still the Afghan people who should fight for their own freedom, not a country from thousands of miles away. We've fired at the hillsides of this country for over a decade and, most would argue, have accomplished relatively little.

This War on Terror, including the war on the Taliban, is a war of the minds, and thus must be fought in our minds. We must look at the terrorist acts around the world and in our own country and not let them provoke us into rash decision making. As we rampage through the Middle East and North Africa we are playing into the terrorists' hands. They WANT us to bankrupt ourselves on our military operations abroad. They WANT us to travel halfway around the world and completely destroy our image as a peaceful, helpful country. They WANT us to continue to take off our shoes and use full body scanners at airports. They are sitting in their caves or huts in Afghanistan, Yemen or Pakistan and laughing their ass off at how sensitive the framework of American society is, where some fool can strap explosives to his shoes or his underwear and all of the sudden they've drastically changed American travel policy.

Frankly, the War on Terror ended on September 12th, 2001, and we weren't the victors.
If only these terror groups knew just how easy it is to unseat the Western world. We'd be in real trouble then.

 

[Synthaholic]

Kerry and Karzai are working on an agreement that would keep some troops there, but has stated repeatedly (and again yesterday) that it's a dead deal unless Karzai agrees to a SOFA that subjects U.S. troops to U.S. law, not Afghan law.

 

[Trajan]

this is just getting ahead of a failed status of forces agreement, since he blew the first one in Iraq, whose consequences are now evident.

 

[Bloodrock44]

He should bring every one of them home today. I'm as right wing as you can get but I was 100% against putting one boot on the ground. Bomb the piss out of them hell yes. But no invasion. After watching the Russians bogged down there for 10 years and seeing their troops and convoys being ambushed day after day what made us think we could do any better? 12 years later and what have we accomplished? 2300 dead. Every single life wasted. Many thousands more lives destroyed. And what the fuck will we eventually do? Declare victory and pull out. I ask you again. What have we accomplished, and what do we think we will accomplish before we pull out, that was worth the lives we have wasted?

 

[bianco]

He should bring every one of them home today. I'm as right wing as you can get but I was 100% against putting one boot on the ground. Bomb the piss out of them hell yes. But no invasion. After watching the Russians bogged down there for 10 years and seeing their troops and convoys being ambushed day after day what made us think we could do any better? 12 years later and what have we accomplished? 2300 dead. Every single life wasted. Many thousands more lives destroyed. And what the fuck will we eventually do? Declare victory and pull out. I ask you again. What have we accomplished, and what do we think we will accomplish before we pull out, that was worth the lives we have wasted?

Nothing...I say.

And Amen to the rest of your post.

 

[Caroljo]

I hope this is true.....my son is supposed to be heading there very soon. We should have left a long time ago, when the ones our soldiers were over there training started turning on them and murdering them.

I seriously hope your son doesn't have to go to that crap hole.

If he does let him know to keep his head down and return safe.

Just an update.....he shipped out yesterday
At least I know he's with a good group - he's part of Psy Ops. He's says they're going over to tie up loose ends and prepare to move everything out. Of course I don't always believe everything he tells me, since he can't tell me much!

 

[Caroljo]

He should bring every one of them home today. I'm as right wing as you can get but I was 100% against putting one boot on the ground. Bomb the piss out of them hell yes. But no invasion. After watching the Russians bogged down there for 10 years and seeing their troops and convoys being ambushed day after day what made us think we could do any better? 12 years later and what have we accomplished? 2300 dead. Every single life wasted. Many thousands more lives destroyed. And what the fuck will we eventually do? Declare victory and pull out. I ask you again. What have we accomplished, and what do we think we will accomplish before we pull out, that was worth the lives we have wasted?

My son just left yesterday for the beautiful poppy fields of Afghanistan.

They're supposed to be cleaning up and getting ready to move everything back. We'll see. He's with Psy Ops, so not sure what all they need to do there...of course I wouldn't know since he can't really talk about things. All I know is I'm much more nervous about this deployment than I was with his 3 to Iraq. Well...except when he was in Baghdad for a year in 2006, that wasn't good at all!! Thankfully this is only supposed to be 6 months, or less.

I agree....just bring them all home. We are NEVER going to change people in the ME, they are never going to stop killing eachother, and there is nothing we can do to change them. They don't want it. But Obama keeps them over there, no matter how many of our men and women have died by the hands of the very people we're trying to help.

 

[Katzndogz]

It would be a good idea IF we stopped ALL immigration from muslim countries including visitor and student visas.