Obama Overtures to Business Fall Flat

[Mr. Peepers]

It was not everything.. you care to check how many bills were not vetoed that were put forth by the DEM congress?

Everything of substance was vetoed. Anything that threatened the neocon agenda was vetoed. Go ahead. Read through these and compare to his vetoes.

Presidency of George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cad]

Wages are not pushed lower and lower.

The value of an employee drops lower and lower.

Same effing thing. Why do a roomful of rich guys that are poised to gain from the profits of a corporation get to determine the value of the employees? Because that is how the wealthy have set it up. Self-preservation.

And yes, wages HAVE been on a stagnant (and now downward) trajectory since the 70's.

Next shoe to drop for U.S. job seekers: lower wages | Reuters

Wages are set by supply and demand of human capital of equal skill set.

Increases in wages are determined by work ethic and individual value to the overall cause.

Sadly, and ironically, when unions enter the system, work ethic and dedication play absolutely no role in establishing wage increases.

That person that came to work in 6 inches of snow will get the same raise as that person who did not come in when there was anything more than a half an inch of snow on the ground.

You ARE aware of this....no?

wages are set by ken salazar

 

[Mr. Peepers]

They have that.. it is called the court system

Which is also bought and sold by special interests - why do you think they keep slimy corporate lawyers on retainer, researching every possible loophole in the law - and they usually win because they have the money for such lawyers. The workers have nothing but the freedom to unionize to negotiate.

 

[saveliberty]

I stand corrected. It seems Bush did have 12 vetoes in 8 years.

Dumbass?? Little stong there doncha think?? LOL

I apologize for the "dumbass" comment, then again people have been calling me names all day. I shouldn't stoop to their level.

Anyway, as you can see, the dems couldn't pass anything the years they were "in power" to save their lives. He vetoed everything they put up, so in essence, their "majority" is moot.

Kudos for taking the high road. 12 vetoes in 8 years seems like a very small number. Do you have a link showing it is excessive? Thanks in advance.

 

[DiamondDave]

You are calling for enhanced benefit without ownership stake at the expense of the freedoms of others... You and the laborers of this nation already have the freedom and the voice to do as you choose for your wages/compensation/personal needs... you are free to work as you choose, where you chose to apply, and at your choice whether to accept what is freely offered to you by the owners of the property/company

If all non-executive wages are falling as fast or faster than the cost of living is rising, which IS the case, what do you suggest? We are creating an ever larger class of working poor. Why do you see this as a good thing for our consumer-driven economy? What happens when we reach that tipping point and there is no middle class?

Once again.. how many times does it have to be stated that with freedom you take the positives and the negatives... in order for you or anyone else to advance/earn more/accumulate you need to change for YOURSELF and not stagnate... it is up to YOU to make yourself in more demand where you can negotiate for more compensation... it is not owed to you or anyone else to just have it given because you want it

Much like a person making a top 20% wage for a skill they had dealing in 4 wire phone technology in 1950 would not have that same skill demanding a top 20% wage today, just staying stagnant does not guarantee you will remain comfortable... there are always technologies that can take over average tasks, there are always new and more persons in the labor force who can do it better or as good, and when the supply of that labor exceeds the demand for it, the compensation will indeed drop

You want guarantees in life.. you want benefit without actually having an ownership stake.... well, sorry, you don't get those

 

[DiamondDave]

They have that.. it is called the court system

Which is also bought and sold by special interests - why do you think they keep slimy corporate lawyers on retainer, researching every possible loophole in the law - and they usually win because they have the money for such lawyers. The workers have nothing but the freedom to unionize to negotiate.

And your conspiracy theories continue... 'the man' still on your shoulder keeping you down?

It's always someone else's fault for you and your entitlement junkie ilk

 

[DiamondDave]

It was not everything.. you care to check how many bills were not vetoed that were put forth by the DEM congress?

Everything of substance was vetoed. Anything that threatened the neocon agenda was vetoed. Go ahead. Read through these and compare to his vetoes.

Presidency of George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it starts... first, understand what neocon actually means.... second, not everything of substance was vetoed. Though such a statement sounds good to you to portray a myth to bolster your ludicrous position. Though it will not work with anyone who can actually think logically....

and BTW "The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page"

I suggest you use reality and a complete list of legislation

 

[cad]

What stopped you from starting your own business?

I am starting my own business - an Organic farm - in the next 2 years on land I inherited, but face it, Corporations will always need people to do the actual grunt-work. Not everyone can start and run a business - many just aren't cut out for that. Some just want to work in order to provide a reasonable existence for them and their families, and corporations have waged war against these very people who make them rich. It is immoral, IMO. I guess I don't understand why you guys rail against a government that you can vote in and out, and who represent you, yet you're willing to give EVERYTHING, including access to our election process to greedy, for-profit entities that would like nothing more than to return us to the days of slave labor. What is to stop the corporations from colluding and doing this very thing in the future?

where do you come up with this idea that people want to give EVERYTHING to corporations? what does that even mean?

you have choice whether or not to give your money to a corporation. you don't have that choice with uncle sam.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Kudos for taking the high road. 12 vetoes in 8 years seems like a very small number. Do you have a link showing it is excessive? Thanks in advance.

As of December 2008, President George W. Bush had vetoed only 12 bills since taking office in January 2001. Only one Presidential veto occurred before Democrats took control of Congress in January 2007. This is the fewest Presidential vetoes of any modern President; in March 2006 Bush set a 200-year veto record. Source: US Senate.

Presidential Vetos - Bills Vetoed by President George W. Bush (2001-2008)

 

[Mr. Peepers]

you have choice whether or not to give your money to a corporation. you don't have that choice with uncle sam.

When the corporations have bought government - as in government is a puppet of the corporations (see meat inspection process)... and they are, you will not have a choice. Don't you understand? Why do you think they WANT unlimited access to elections?

 

[saveliberty]

The government can separate you from your liberty, assets, money and choices much more quickly and completely can any corporation.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I suggest you use reality and a complete list of legislation

Why do I need to do your homework? I lived through it. I remember what passed of substance and what didn't. Are you saying that Bush let through anything that was important to the dems that went against his agenda, because he didn't. Period.

 

[DiamondDave]

I suggest you use reality and a complete list of legislation

Why do I need to do your homework? I lived through it. I remember what passed of substance and what didn't. Are you saying that Bush let through anything that was important to the dems that went against his agenda, because he didn't. Period.

Pardon me.. you made the assertion that it was everything the DEMs put up.... you don't get to make that assertion without your burden of proof when called on it... What you deem as substantial is completely subjective to your agenda, but nice try

I lived and worked under Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama... I have actually served in the military under Bush I and the bane of the military Clinton... you certainly are not the only person who has lived during the Bush II years

 

[Mr. Peepers]

The government can separate you from your liberty, assets, money and choices much more quickly and completely can any corporation.

As I said before, the government is being bought and controlled by corporations. Whose idea is deregulation? Whose idea was it to contract out 90% of the military or whatever ridiculous percentage it was for Bush's war for $$$. Who begged congress to relax lending qualifications to aquire more loans to sell. Who decided the meat industry doesn't have to tell consumers exactly what stores they shipped their tainted meat to? Who persuaded the government that eminent domain is legal? How is it possible that insurance companies can drag things out in court hoping the person suing for coverage will die before the case is settled? Why, when Enron was bilking 30 BILLION dollars out of California, were Dick and Shrub in secret energy meetings - why did they tell California "we can't help you"? Why did the FERC "look the other way"? Why do corporations now have unlimited access to the election process which needs to be purged of special interests... instead, they were given even more power. Shall I go on???

 

[Claudette]

I stand corrected. It seems Bush did have 12 vetoes in 8 years.

Dumbass?? Little stong there doncha think?? LOL

I apologize for the "dumbass" comment, then again people have been calling me names all day. I shouldn't stoop to their level.

Anyway, as you can see, the dems couldn't pass anything the years they were "in power" to save their lives. He vetoed everything they put up, so in essence, their "majority" is moot.

Apology accepted.

I reviewed all of Bush's vetoes and the congress overrode 6 of them and sustained the other six. So half of the vetoes were overidden and probably passed into law???

Don't see where the Dems couldn't accomplish anything though.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Wages are not pushed lower and lower.

The value of an employee drops lower and lower.

Same effing thing. Why do a roomful of rich guys that are poised to gain from the profits of a corporation get to determine the value of the employees? Because that is how the wealthy have set it up. Self-preservation.

And yes, wages HAVE been on a stagnant (and now downward) trajectory since the 70's.

Next shoe to drop for U.S. job seekers: lower wages | Reuters

How did those rich guys get rich? My personal assets are well over 5,000,000.00, I have already retired from one industry and I'm currently working in another (where I earn a 6 figure salary). I am a partner in two businesses, I own over 2500 acres of land where I run a modest herd of beef cattle, I own two homes and numerous vehicles. All this I aquired after I was released from prison in 1980. All it took was hard work and common sense. Oh and I don't have nor have I ever had health insurance.

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?

 

[Jarhead]

What stopped you from starting your own business?

I am starting my own business - an Organic farm - in the next 2 years on land I inherited, but face it, Corporations will always need people to do the actual grunt-work. Not everyone can start and run a business - many just aren't cut out for that. Some just want to work in order to provide a reasonable existence for them and their families, and corporations have waged war against these very people who make them rich. It is immoral, IMO. I guess I don't understand why you guys rail against a government that you can vote in and out, and who represent you, yet you're willing to give EVERYTHING, including access to our election process to greedy, for-profit entities that would like nothing more than to return us to the days of slave labor. What is to stop the corporations from colluding and doing this very thing in the future?

Good luck with your new venture. Starting ones own is the most exciting thing one can do.

You say:

"Some just want to work in order to provide a reasonable existence for them and their families......."

True. They do not want the risk of starting their own or the headaches or the long hours.
But that is their choice.

Then you say:

"corporations have waged war against these very people who make them rich."

This is your opinion as you made clear. However, did you ever look at it another way? They are not waging war against these people. They pay them for their value to the success of the company. When their wages exceed their value, it is poor business practice to "take a loss" on the employee...and if they took a loss on EVERY employee, they would ultimately go out of business.

For example:

A store clerk starts working at $10 an hour. Every year he receives a 4% raise....after 10 years he is making $14.91....However, he is still a store clerk doing exactly what he was doing when he was there on day 1. A little more efficient, a little more in the know, but to the success of the company? He is not doing anything more for that 14.91 than he was doing for the 10.

So the company hires a replacement at 10 an hour and saves 4.91 an hour and the output of that emnployee is exactly the same.

Is this wrong? Seems unfair, yes...but wrong? Would you say it is smart business to pay someone more than the posaition warrants...even after 10 years the employee proved to be only as valuable as one with 1 year experience?

Maybe that store emplyee after 1 year should have seeked a more lucrative opportunity. Maybe an opportunity that is not one that can be easily replaced when he has years of experience?

You see Peepers, people starts companies to make money. They want to make as much money as they can so they can enjoy life and retire. They take on the long hours, the risks, the days if not weeks away from family so they are in control of their destiny.

Otrhers dont want the headaches or the risks or the long hours or the days if not weeks away from their families. Fine., But then they need to realize that they are NOT in control of their destiny. They should, however, find a way to differentiate themselves from the rest. Make themselves indispensible.

That store clerk for example...maybe if he were seen on a daily basis at the end of the day sweeping floors that were not part of his job, or staying later after the close with the managers as they went over inventory, he would be seen as worth the extrra 4.91 an hour.

It is up to the employee to make themselves indispensible.

 

[Jarhead]

Wages are not pushed lower and lower.

The value of an employee drops lower and lower.

Same effing thing. Why do a roomful of rich guys that are poised to gain from the profits of a corporation get to determine the value of the employees? Because that is how the wealthy have set it up. Self-preservation.

And yes, wages HAVE been on a stagnant (and now downward) trajectory since the 70's.

Next shoe to drop for U.S. job seekers: lower wages | Reuters

How did those rich guys get rich? My personal assets are well over 5,000,000.00, I have already retired from one industry and I'm currently working in another (where I earn a 6 figure salary). I am a partner in two businesses, I own over 2500 acres of land where I run a modest herd of beef cattle, I own two homes and numerous vehicles. All this I aquired after I was released from prison in 1980. All it took was hard work and common sense. Oh and I don't have nor have I ever had health insurance.

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?

Are you looking to adopt someone?
I am available.

 

[DiamondDave]

The government can separate you from your liberty, assets, money and choices much more quickly and completely can any corporation.

As I said before, the government is being bought and controlled by corporations. Whose idea is deregulation? Whose idea is to contract out 90% of the military or whatever ridiculous percentage it was for Bush's war for $$$. Who begged congress to relax lending qualifications to aquire more loans to sell. Who decided the meat industry doesn't have to tell consumers exactly what stores they shipped their tainted meat to? Who persuaded the government that imminent domain is legal? How is it possible that insurance companies can drag things out in court hoping the person suing for coverage will die before the case is settled. Why, when Enron was bilking 30 BILLION dollars out of California, were Dick and Shrub in secret energy meetings - why did they tell California "we can't help you"? Why did the FERC "look the other way" Why do corporations now have unlimited access to the election process which needs to be purged of special interests... instead, they were given even more power. Shall I go on???

Funny.. all unsubstantiated conspiracy theory statements...

As stated.. you appear to be making everything a conspiracy or everyone else's fault

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And your conspiracy theories continue... 'the man' still on your shoulder keeping you down?

It's always someone else's fault for you and your entitlement junkie ilk

Yeah, we'll see. Keep kneeling at the corporatists' feet. You'd better pray that I'm wrong... but I'm not. And when did I say anyone is keeping me down? This is about American workers.