Obama Overtures to Business Fall Flat

[DiamondDave]

Wages are not pushed lower and lower.

The value of an employee drops lower and lower.

Same effing thing. Why do a roomful of rich guys that are poised to gain from the profits of a corporation get to determine the value of the employees? Because that is how the wealthy have set it up. Self-preservation.

And yes, wages HAVE been on a stagnant (and now downward) trajectory since the 70's.

Next shoe to drop for U.S. job seekers: lower wages | Reuters

Because he who owns the company property and takes the risk of the business is the one shelling out the money to pay for the labor

You do not get to dictate over what actions another does with their private property.. whether that be a pocket watch or a company

You are free to apply at any company you wish... you are not forced to take an offer of salary compensation.. but with that freedom you also are not owed a goddamn thing from the government or anyone else when you make the choice of not taking a job for yourself because you FEEL you deserve more

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You also see.. the magic of the freedom based system is that if a company severely under compensates, workers will indeed go elsewhere... and if that company does not raise it wages to a level that is the balance point of employee want and company cost, they will go by the wayside... for you are not forced to accept any job.. you are free to work at place X or place Y... you are free not to work and starve while living in a Maytag box... you are free to ***** and moan about how everyone else owes you for your existence... and you are free to continue bitching about "the man" keeping you down

We live in a society - supposedly an enlightened society. Money is a man-made means of controlling of other human beings. You think you have a choice? What a joke. Just wait until you see just what your corporate overlords leave you when they are done, if you get your way, that is. I think the workers should just take your advice and all stop at once, since they are of such little value anymore and the rich don't need them and aren't responsible at all for the health of the community, society and country they operate in. Those shareholders and CEO's get rich of the backs of PEOPLE - people that they deem as disposeable and a "necessary evil" . THIS is what is wrong with capitalism and what is wrong with this country. The society you want sucks and I, as well as most Americans, want no part of it. You sound like you're better suited for Russia.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You are free to apply at any company you wish... you are not forced to take an offer of salary compensation.. but with that freedom you also are not owed a goddamn thing from the government or anyone else when you make the choice of not taking a job for yourself because you FEEL you deserve more

When the proles can no longer subsist on their wages, it is no longer a choice but a vise.

 

[DiamondDave]

You are free to apply at any company you wish... you are not forced to take an offer of salary compensation.. but with that freedom you also are not owed a goddamn thing from the government or anyone else when you make the choice of not taking a job for yourself because you FEEL you deserve more

When the proles can no longer subsist on their wages, it is no longer a choice but a vise.

No... absolutely and completely WRONG

It is still a choice... you can choose to become a hermit or live in a cave or live in an alley or join the French Foreign Legion or whatever else... you can choose to work 2 jobs to get what you want, you can work 3 jobs, or you can work no jobs and keep whining like a *****

But the bottom line is you have the choice, even if you don't like the consequences of your choices

 

[DiamondDave]

You also see.. the magic of the freedom based system is that if a company severely under compensates, workers will indeed go elsewhere... and if that company does not raise it wages to a level that is the balance point of employee want and company cost, they will go by the wayside... for you are not forced to accept any job.. you are free to work at place X or place Y... you are free not to work and starve while living in a Maytag box... you are free to ***** and moan about how everyone else owes you for your existence... and you are free to continue bitching about "the man" keeping you down

We live in a society - supposedly an enlightened society. Money is a man-made means of control of other human beings. You think you have a choice? What a joke. Just wait until you see just your corporate overlords leave you when they are done, if you get your way, that is. I think the workers should just take your advice and all stop at once, since they are of such little value anymore and the rich don't need them and aren't responsible at all for the health of the community, society and country they operate in. Those shareholders and CEO's get rich of the backs of PEOPLE - people that they deem as disposeable and a "necessary evil" . THIS is what is wrong with capitalism and what is wrong with this country. The society you want sucks and I, as well as most Americans, want no part of it. You sound like you're better suited for Russia.

You are the one clambering for a destruction of choice and freedom and arguing against capitalism and you say that a capitalist who loves the system based on freedom is better suited for Russia... and you also fully think that 'most Americans' are against a system based on freedoms.. you are a ******* joke

You have the choice to go and work in any little socialist or communist haven that you choose...

You, not capitalism, is what is wrong with this country... you are an entitlement junky in full support of the destruction of freedoms so that your every want and need can be forced in redistribution from others

 

[Claudette]

BTW in the 8 years Bush was the Prez he never vetoed anything.

Really? Dumbass.

Presidential Vetos - Bills Vetoed by President George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Psst. Notice he set a presidential record when the dems took office.

I stand corrected. It seems Bush did have 12 vetoes in 8 years.

Dumbass?? Little stong there doncha think?? LOL

 

[Claudette]

You also see.. the magic of the freedom based system is that if a company severely under compensates, workers will indeed go elsewhere... and if that company does not raise it wages to a level that is the balance point of employee want and company cost, they will go by the wayside... for you are not forced to accept any job.. you are free to work at place X or place Y... you are free not to work and starve while living in a Maytag box... you are free to ***** and moan about how everyone else owes you for your existence... and you are free to continue bitching about "the man" keeping you down

We live in a society - supposedly an enlightened society. Money is a man-made means of control of other human beings. You think you have a choice? What a joke. Just wait until you see just your corporate overlords leave you when they are done, if you get your way, that is. I think the workers should just take your advice and all stop at once, since they are of such little value anymore and the rich don't need them and aren't responsible at all for the health of the community, society and country they operate in. Those shareholders and CEO's get rich of the backs of PEOPLE - people that they deem as disposeable and a "necessary evil" . THIS is what is wrong with capitalism and what is wrong with this country. The society you want sucks and I, as well as most Americans, want no part of it. You sound like you're better suited for Russia.

You are the one clambering for a destruction of choice and freedom and arguing against capitalism and you say that a capitalist who loves the system based on freedom is better suited for Russia... and you also fully think that 'most Americans' are against a system based on freedoms.. you are a ******* joke

You have the choice to go and work in any little socialist or communist haven that you choose...

You, not capitalism, is what is wrong with this country... you are an entitlement junky in full support of the destruction of freedoms so that your every want and need can be forced in redistribution from others

Bingo.

I'm sure Hugo or Fidel would welcome him with open arms. He should go to Venzuela or Cuba then he can slave away for the State and see where it get him. LOL

 

[Jarhead]

Wages are not pushed lower and lower.

The value of an employee drops lower and lower.

Same effing thing. Why do a roomful of rich guys that are poised to gain from the profits of a corporation get to determine the value of the employees? Because that is how the wealthy have set it up. Self-preservation.

And yes, wages HAVE been on a stagnant (and now downward) trajectory since the 70's.

Next shoe to drop for U.S. job seekers: lower wages | Reuters

Wages are set by supply and demand of human capital of equal skill set.

Increases in wages are determined by work ethic and individual value to the overall cause.

Sadly, and ironically, when unions enter the system, work ethic and dedication play absolutely no role in establishing wage increases.

That person that came to work in 6 inches of snow will get the same raise as that person who did not come in when there was anything more than a half an inch of snow on the ground.

You ARE aware of this....no?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You are the one clambering for a destruction of choice and freedom

No, I am CLAMORING for a voice of choice and freedom for those who are not part of the 5% who own and control everything to the detriment of us all. They are the ones having their choices and freedoms chipped away at and diminished. The system is set up for the wealthy, by the wealthy.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Wages are set by supply and demand of human capital of equal skill set.

Not anymore. They are set by who we can do away with & WHAT we can get away with to maximize profit for the benefit of a very few.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

That person that came to work in 6 inches of snow will get the same raise as that person who did not come in when there was anything more than a half an inch of snow on the ground.

So, every company has a base % that is a cost of living wage. My company does, and there is no union. Unions do much more good than harm - look at the miners in Appalachia and the immigrants (esp. children) in the Northern towns. Do you think that workers should have no right to take on their employers for unfair and/or unsafe practices?

 

[Jarhead]

That person that came to work in 6 inches of snow will get the same raise as that person who did not come in when there was anything more than a half an inch of snow on the ground.

So, every company has a base % that is a cost of living wage. My company does, and there is no union. Unions do much more good than harm - look at the miners in Appalachia and the immigrants (esp. children) in the Northern towns. Do you think that workers should have no right to take on their employers for unfair and/or unsafe practices?

There are very strict guidleines that companies must follow as it pertains to human resources.
There are safety guidelines as well as discriminatuion prevention guidleines.

And you are wrong when you say "every company has a base % that is cost of living wage"

Every copmpany does what it needs to do to retain the best employees and generate the best proifit.

Unions eliminate the "best employee" part of that.

 

[Jarhead]

You are the one clambering for a destruction of choice and freedom

No, I am CLAMORING for a voice of choice and freedom for those who are not part of the 5% who own and control everything to the detriment of us all. They are the ones having their choices and freedoms chipped away at and diminished. The system is set up for the wealthy, by the wealthy.

What stopped you from starting your own business?

 

[Moon]

Yes, because a random stockholder is in fact one of the owners of the company, and has a financial stake in the success or failure of the company.

So the workers have no financial stake in the success or failure of the company? That is their livelihoods, their career, part their very identity. Remember when companies valued their workers and workers would make a 50 year career at the same company? This is less valuable and than a rich stockholder that has never set foot in the company, and should have NO say???? Are you grasping my logic at all?

I grasp your logic, but it is flawed. Owners of any company will always have more say in how things are run than employees do. I support employees having influence in how operations at their local facility are run, but not for issues such as executive or management compensation.

 

[DiamondDave]

You are the one clambering for a destruction of choice and freedom

No, I am CLAMORING for a voice of choice and freedom for those who are not part of the 5% who own and control everything to the detriment of us all. They are the ones having their choices and freedoms chipped away at and diminished. The system is set up for the wealthy, by the wealthy.

No, you are not

You are calling for enhanced benefit without ownership stake at the expense of the freedoms of others... You and the laborers of this nation already have the freedom and the voice to do as you choose for your wages/compensation/personal needs... you are free to work as you choose, where you chose to apply, and at your choice whether to accept what is freely offered to you by the owners of the property/company

nice try though

 

[Mr. Peepers]

What stopped you from starting your own business?

I am starting my own business - an Organic farm - in the next 2 years on land I inherited, but face it, Corporations will always need people to do the actual grunt-work. Not everyone can start and run a business - many just aren't cut out for that. Some just want to work in order to provide a reasonable existence for them and their families, and corporations have waged war against these very people who make them rich. It is immoral, IMO. I guess I don't understand why you guys rail against a government that you can vote in and out, and who represent you, yet you're willing to give EVERYTHING, including access to our election process to greedy, for-profit entities that would like nothing more than to return us to the days of slave labor. What is to stop the corporations from colluding and doing this very thing in the future?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You are calling for enhanced benefit without ownership stake at the expense of the freedoms of others... You and the laborers of this nation already have the freedom and the voice to do as you choose for your wages/compensation/personal needs... you are free to work as you choose, where you chose to apply, and at your choice whether to accept what is freely offered to you by the owners of the property/company

If all non-executive wages are falling as fast or faster than the cost of living is rising, which IS the case, what do you suggest? We are creating an ever larger class of working poor. Why do you see this as a good thing for our consumer-driven economy? What happens when we reach that tipping point and there is no middle class?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I stand corrected. It seems Bush did have 12 vetoes in 8 years.

Dumbass?? Little stong there doncha think?? LOL

I apologize for the "dumbass" comment, then again people have been calling me names all day. I shouldn't stoop to their level.

Anyway, as you can see, the dems couldn't pass anything the years they were "in power" to save their lives. He vetoed everything they put up, so in essence, their "majority" is moot.

 

[DiamondDave]

That person that came to work in 6 inches of snow will get the same raise as that person who did not come in when there was anything more than a half an inch of snow on the ground.

So, every company has a base % that is a cost of living wage. My company does, and there is no union. Unions do much more good than harm - look at the miners in Appalachia and the immigrants (esp. children) in the Northern towns. Do you think that workers should have no right to take on their employers for unfair and/or unsafe practices?

They have that.. it is called the court system

 

[DiamondDave]

I stand corrected. It seems Bush did have 12 vetoes in 8 years.

Dumbass?? Little stong there doncha think?? LOL

I apologize for the "dumbass" comment, then again people have been calling me names all day. I shouldn't stoop to their level.

Anyway, as you can see, the dems couldn't pass anything the years they were "in power" to save their lives. He vetoed everything they put up, so in essence, their "majority" is moot.

It was not everything.. you care to check how many bills were not vetoed that were put forth by the DEM congress?