Obama: 'No excuse' for health care signup problems

[g5000]

no, it is not. it is a lie.

Then show me the Act where they reformed it!

they did not have the power to ram it through the throats of American people as obamacare was - because GOP never had a super-majority like dimocraps had in 2009.

but the 5 different reform bills were introduced and I have already provided links to that.

don't forget to continue to lie as if you weren't provided this information - "GOP never had and never introduced any healthcare plans".

what else is new?

Yeah. That Republican majority was somehow able to double the national debt, create a massive new Cabinet department, deregulate Wall Street, pass not one but TWO major tax cuts, but were somehow completely stymied when trying to reform health care.



Gosh, there must be a wealth of news links you can provide where they made the effort when they totally controlled Congress and the White House.

 

[Vox]

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf
Seriously? The Republicans Have No Health Plan? - Forbes
It’s arguably the favorite myth of progressives, the oft-repeated claim that Republicans have no health plan. Hence, President Obama was fully justified in ignoring them and proceeding to enact a comprehensive health reform law on a strict party line vote—something completely unprecedented in American political history.

the comprehensive healthcare reform plans introduced by GOP go as far as by 2003:

Comprehensive Republican health reform plans introduced in Congress

Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.

Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act (S. 1783) introduced by Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) July 12, 2007.10 Steps to Transform Health Care - Issue Statements - United States Senator Mike Enzi
Every American Insured Health Act introduced by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Bob Corker (R-TN) with co-sponsors Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mel Martinez (formerly R-FL) and Elizabeth Dole (formerly R-NC) on July 26, 2007.Dr. Coburn, colleagues introduce "Every American Insured Health Act" - Press Releases - Tom Coburn, M.D., United States Senator from Oklahoma
Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced the Healthy Americans Act on January 18, 2007 and re-introduced the same bill on February 5, 2009.Healthy Americans Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 introduced by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) on May 20, 2009.http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public...&File_id=d2f94455-368c-45b5-8d56-fc195a833884
H.R. 2300, Empowering Patients First Act introduced July 30, 2009 by Rep. Tom Price (R-GA).
http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/HR 2300 Section by Section.pdf

All of those were introduced after the GOP lost its control of Congress. Too little, too late. They were introduced after John Edwards threw down the gauntlet in early 2007.

are completely blacklabeled?
or you can not read?

since when 2003, 2007, 2009 are "too little too late"

or for a dimocrap leftard liar like yourself telling that white is black is an everyday job?

 

[The Rabbi]

Irony. You guys have completely failed to show any attempt whatsoever by the GOP to reform the rising cost of healthcare. No matter how much smoke you throw up, this is a simple fact.

They ahve shown numerous attempts. The fact they refute your argument is not grounds for dismissing them out of hand.
Remind me how the Democrats have succeeded in reining in health care costs.

I have never said Democrats have succeeded in reining in health care costs. In fact, every time I have talked about ObamaCare with respect to costs, I have very specifically stated ObamaCare will not bend the cost curve down.

Want some links? I have plenty.

OK, so the Democrats, with total control over government, could not pass a plan that would rein in health care costs. And you're criticizing the GOP, which did not have control, for not passing a plan??

 

[The Rabbi]

Then show me the Act where they reformed it!

they did not have the power to ram it through the throats of American people as obamacare was - because GOP never had a super-majority like dimocraps had in 2009.

but the 5 different reform bills were introduced and I have already provided links to that.

don't forget to continue to lie as if you weren't provided this information - "GOP never had and never introduced any healthcare plans".

what else is new?

Yeah. That Republican majority was somehow able to double the national debt, create a massive new Cabinet department, pass not one but TWO major tax cuts, but were somehow completely stymied when trying to reform health care.



Gosh, there must be a wealth of news links you can provide where they made the effort when they totally controlled Congress and the White House.

They did not double the national debt.
I seem to recall that plenty of Democrats voted for all those things. How many Republicans voted for Obamacare?

 

[Vox]

Then show me the Act where they reformed it!

they did not have the power to ram it through the throats of American people as obamacare was - because GOP never had a super-majority like dimocraps had in 2009.

but the 5 different reform bills were introduced and I have already provided links to that.

don't forget to continue to lie as if you weren't provided this information - "GOP never had and never introduced any healthcare plans".

what else is new?

Yeah. That Republican majority was somehow able to double the national debt, create a massive new Cabinet department, deregulate Wall Street, pass not one but TWO major tax cuts, but were somehow completely stymied when trying to reform health care.



Gosh, there must be a wealth of news links you can provide where they made the effort when they totally controlled Congress and the White House.

that is all you lying shill is being left with?

NEXT

 

[tinydancer]

G5000 you keep trying to claim you are a republican?

c'mon, he is a dimocrap shill as is fakey and matthew - they all lie the same way

How many do we have?

 

[g5000]

The GOP managed to start two wars, double the national debt, create a massive new Cabinet department, and deregulate the shit out of Wall Street.

So your weak "filibuster-proof" Senate excuse couldn't funnier, Quantum Windbag.

You really need to be ***** slapped unto eternity.

GOP managed to start two wars.

Like ******* 911 didnt happen? You douche bag. Like GW wanted to start a war in Afghanistan mother ******?

You asshole.

Still foaming at the mouth, I see. That second war was not related to 9/11.

Two wars, doubled the national debt, created a new Cabinet department, created Medicare Group D for seniors, enacted two tax major tax cuts.

But, boy, when they went to battle for healthcare reform (still waiting for the news articles about that fight), the Democrats filibustered them, right?

Right?

Yeahhhhhh...

 

[Vox]

G5000 you keep trying to claim you are a republican?

c'mon, he is a dimocrap shill as is fakey and matthew - they all lie the same way

How many do we have?

well, those three are the most visible.

I am sure there are some more, but those are constantly posting.

sure enough, fakey is the most caricature one, but those two pretensions are also laughable.

I have to tell that fakey, with all his reactionary lingo is at least concise and sometimes funny.

 

[g5000]

Some other hard facts you all will have to deal with:

The web site will get fixed.

Millions will enroll.

The GOP better get in front of these facts instead of branding themselves as sore losers who failed to help.

Read this: MASSACHUSETTS HEALTH CARE REFORM: SIX YEARS LATER

 

[g5000]

G5000 you keep trying to claim you are a republican?

Registered Republican since probably before you were born. Have actually dined with William F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan.

For several decades, my voting options have been:

1. Vote straight Republican ticket.

2. Don't vote.

There have been no other options for me, and up until 2006, I always went with Option 1. Since then, I have gone with Option 2 because this isn't the GOP any more. It is packed with psychotic foaming mouth breathers like yourself.

The GOP stopped earning my vote when it doubled the national debt, created a massive new Cabinet department that promptly began spying on Americans on the GOP's watch, suspended habeas corpus for US citizens, tortured detainees, and ramped up its hatred of blacks, Muslims, homosexuals, and Mexicans. I have been seeing an alarming amount of White Nationalist rhetoric bleeding over into the faux right wings rhetoric.

So I am doing my part to take out the trash from our house. Cleaning up our side of the street, as it were.

It's a full time job these days.

 

[Vox]

Repeating for the pretentious LIAR g-5000, who conveniently "did not see" this post :

So, maybe it is time to finally stop LYING, and educate yourself, g-5000?

Seriously? The Republicans Have No Health Plan? - Forbes

Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:

Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.
Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.
Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.
Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here:

Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—released Best of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.
Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.
Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).
Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).

 

[g5000]

Repeating for the pretentious LIAR g-5000, who conveniently "did not see" this post :

So, maybe it is time to finally stop LYING, and educate yourself, g-5000?

Seriously? The Republicans Have No Health Plan? - Forbes

Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:

Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.

Never made it into actual proposed legislation. It was an idea that never launched.

Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.

This, too, never was introduced as legislation.

Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.

2012??

Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here:

Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—released Best of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.
Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.
Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).
Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).

Proposed, never actually introduced and passed as legislation.

 

[g5000]

There was Medicare reform enacted under Bush. It was opposed by a lot of Republicans and almost did not pass. One Republican then claimed he was promised campaign cash if he changed his vote to "yea". Much hilarity followed.

Healthcare costs continued to rise.

They will continue to rise under ObamaCare, too.

Until we get serious about real reforms that will actually bend the cost curve down, everything else is theater for the rubes. By both parties.

Zeroing in on a startup web site's launch glitches is the definition of short-sightedness, and it will bite the GOP in the ass.

 

[g5000]

Remember Bill Clinton's surplus budgets?

A great deal of that was paid for by reducing Medicare reimbursements over the following years.

Except each of the following years, Congress undid its work and enacted "doc fixes". Right up to the present day.

But let's focus on a web site! It's more fun!

 

[g5000]

you have said exactly that( tax expenditures are the loopholes for the rich) - and was even ignorant that they have touched the issue of the taxes itself.

Nope. I did not say that. Which is why you can't find a post of me saying it.

I did say one particular tax expenditure is highly regressive, because it is. The mortgage interest deduction.

I think you read one thing, but your brain hears something entirely different. That is why your recollection is so flawed.

 

[boedicca]

There's No Excuse for ObamaCare.

Period.

 

[Flopper]

So, maybe it is time to finally stop LYING, and educate yourself, g-5000?

Seriously? The Republicans Have No Health Plan? - Forbes

Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:

Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.
Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.
Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.
Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here:

Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—released Best of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.
Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.
Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).
Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).

The Republican plan for healthcare reform is prior to the ACA, in other words the Republican plan pretends the ACA never happened. By the time Republicans have their chance at changing healthcare in America, millions more people will have healthcare coverage through healthcare exchanges, group insurance, and expanded Medicaid. Tens of millions will be receiving government subsidies for health insurance and pre-existing conditions will be a thing of the past.

I'll be looking forward to seeing a plan that improves healthcare from where it is, not from where it was.

 

[g5000]

I am glad to see you provided a link in that topic about taxes which shows FreedomWorks would like to see all tax expenditures eliminated, Vox. That's great news.

I was not running away from that topic. I had left the forum for the day and had not seen your response.

Since the Tea Party, or at least FreedomWorks, is in total harmony with me on tax expenditures, I really don't get how you think I am on the opposite side of you.

I have been getting more guff about eliminating all tax expenditures from the faux conservatives on this forum than from liberals.

I am about getting government out of lives as much as possible, leveling the playing field in the marketplace, and smarter and better regulations.

But I am also about discovering facts, not making shit up. If I see someone making shit up, I don't care which side of the argument they are on, I am going to call them on it.

Sadly, I see a lot of faux right wingers making up some serious gross tonnage of shit these days.


The GOP completely surrendered on healthcare reform. They paid virtually nothing but lip service to it, never went full court press on it.

Now they are going full court press on ObamaCare and a funky web site, and from here it looks like they care doing that to conceal their total abdication on the issue in the past.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The web site will be fixed. Then what?

Oh, yeah. The GOP still won't have an alternative solution on the table. They will look for something else to make fun of/whine about instead.

24 states elected to construct and manage their own exchange web sites and are having relatively few problems. With only two exceptions these are all blue states. The remainder of the states, mostly red states are all on the federal web site and are having the problems.

State Exchange Map - The Commonwealth Fund

I like that claim.

Tell me something, what does relatively few mean when less than 10% of visitors to Healthcare.gov have created accounts? There are states that have said they have had 0 people enroll, is that relatively few errors, or relatively many errors?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You fuckers don't know what it looks like when a politician takes responsibility for a **** up, do you?

Absolutely not.

None of their politicians have ever taken responsibility for anything.

Obama is your politician.