Obama does not state the 1967 border should be returned...

[JimH52]

It is sad that Obama haters must twist his words in order to make a false point. Basically, you are promoting a lie to satisfy your sick hate. The truth is Obama stated a policy clearly that every administration in recent history has held. You know that and yet you promote a lie. Any peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians must begin based on the 1967 border. There should be swaps until each entity is assured of secure borders.

 

[JimH52]

I posted a map and reasoning, your problem now is, you have pigeon holed the argument and I no longer care.

frankly it matters not what bush and Sharon exchanged in 04.....get the hint dopey?

anyway, obama was clearly referring to pre 67....logic is not your friend.

ttfn

And you are a liar. You cannot show me the word PRE in Obama's speech. You should get a job with FOX, since you are so talented at lying. Maybe Hannity can hire you to detail his waterboarding that never occured,

 

[boedicca]

I posted a map and reasoning, your problem now is, you have pigeon holed the argument and I no longer care.

frankly it matters not what bush and Sharon exchanged in 04.....get the hint dopey?

anyway, obama was clearly referring to pre 67....logic is not your friend.

ttfn

And you are a liar. You cannot show me the word PRE in Obama's speech. You should get a job with FOX, since you are so talented at lying. Maybe Hannity can hire you to detail his waterboarding that never occured,

And you are a disingenuous moron. Only a gullible hack would believe that Obama was speaking of the borders after the Six Days War.

 

[Trajan]

I posted a map and reasoning, your problem now is, you have pigeon holed the argument and I no longer care.

frankly it matters not what bush and Sharon exchanged in 04.....get the hint dopey?

anyway, obama was clearly referring to pre 67....logic is not your friend.

ttfn

And you are a liar. You cannot show me the word PRE in Obama's speech. You should get a job with FOX, since you are so talented at lying. Maybe Hannity can hire you to detail his waterboarding that never occured,

I am a 'liar'?

Oh, I think you should remember I have always spoken to you civilly to start with.....

now, I understand simple logic. go back,and read what I wrote in the post where in I added the map.


here;



http://www.usmessageboard.com/3667350-post83.html


Think about it for a few minutes and get back to me. stop talking thru your bias, just think about it.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I am sure that Israel would love to go back to the post 1967 war borders. They have given up quite a bit since then, and to return to that level would be cool for them.

The pre 1967 borders, not so much.

 

[Trajan]

I am sure that Israel would love to go back to the post 1967 war borders. They have given up quite a bit since then, and to return to that level would be cool for them.

The pre 1967 borders, not so much.

Sharon squeezed out whatever he could for/from his defacto decision to leave gaza, they didn't get much, credit, peace etc....Sinai, at that time was fair trade, they got what they wanted. Some people don't like to remember that, they traded back land for Peace, because Egypt was able to provide it......hamas cannot and WILL NOT provide it.

 

[Zander]

I posted a map and reasoning, your problem now is, you have pigeon holed the argument and I no longer care.

frankly it matters not what bush and Sharon exchanged in 04.....get the hint dopey?

anyway, obama was clearly referring to pre 67....logic is not your friend.

ttfn

And you are a liar. You cannot show me the word PRE in Obama's speech. You should get a job with FOX, since you are so talented at lying. Maybe Hannity can hire you to detail his waterboarding that never occured,

I am a 'liar'?

Oh, I think you should remember I have always spoken to you civilly to start with.....

now, I understand simple logic. go back,and read what I wrote in the post where in I added the map.


here;



http://www.usmessageboard.com/3667350-post83.html


Think about it for a few minutes and get back to me. stop talking thru your bias, just think about it.

Why are you wasting your time?
He is either too stupid to understand or too blind to see. Either way, you're wasting your time.

 

[JimH52]

No use arguing with you. It matter little what you opinion is. I know what Obama said. You will spin it as you like.

 

[Zander]

No use arguing with you. It matter little what you opinion is. I know what Obama said. You will spin it as you like.

Yeah, me, just about every newspaper, television, and radio station in the world, along with the entire Israeli government are all "spinning". Only you know what Obama "really" meant.

 

[Trajan]

No use arguing with you. It matter little what you opinion is. I know what Obama said. You will spin it as you like.

there is no opinion involved, you don't tell the arab world you are speaking of the AFTER war border, that would make no sense as a starting point, its a dead loss, the West bank, Jerusalem, Golan, was overrun, speaking to the BEFORE is the ONLY boundary that makes sense...can you not comprehend that? IF NOT, there would be NO POINT in even speaking to 1967 in his speech at all and Netanyahu would have no issue. He would be happy to start with those borders.

 

[Trajan]

And you are a liar. You cannot show me the word PRE in Obama's speech. You should get a job with FOX, since you are so talented at lying. Maybe Hannity can hire you to detail his waterboarding that never occured,

I am a 'liar'?

Oh, I think you should remember I have always spoken to you civilly to start with.....

now, I understand simple logic. go back,and read what I wrote in the post where in I added the map.


here;



http://www.usmessageboard.com/3667350-post83.html


Think about it for a few minutes and get back to me. stop talking thru your bias, just think about it.

Why are you wasting your time?
He is either too stupid to understand or too blind to see. Either way, you're wasting your time.

that was my last attempt, logic flees for some, when Obama speaks....*shrugs*

 

[Zander]

No use arguing with you. It matter little what you opinion is. I know what Obama said. You will spin it as you like.

there is no opinion involved, you don't tell the arab world you are speaking of the AFTER war border, that would make no sense as a starting point, its a dead loss, the West bank, Jerusalem, Golan, was overrun, speaking to the BEFORE is the ONLY boundary that makes sense...can you not comprehend that? IF NOT, there would be NO POINT in even speaking to 1967 in his speech at all and Netanyahu would have no issue. He would be happy to start with those borders.

Stop making sense! Obama didn't say "PRE" in his speech!!!!

That is the "real issue for Obamabots. Fauxtrageous!

 

[edthecynic]

I am sure that Israel would love to go back to the post 1967 war borders. They have given up quite a bit since then, and to return to that level would be cool for them.

The pre 1967 borders, not so much.

You CON$ just make this crap up out of thin air!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Im glad Obama lost every swing state for the Dems in 2012

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Reuters gets it wrong too, right Obama Fluffers?

"In an unusually sharp rebuke to Israel's closest ally, Netanyahu insisted Israel would never pull back to its 1967 borders -- which would mean big concessions of occupied land -- that Obama had said should be the basis for negotiations on creating a Palestinian state."

Israeli rebuke of Obama exposes divide on Mideast | Reuters

 

[edthecynic]

Reuters gets it wrong too, right Obama Fluffers?

"In an unusually sharp rebuke to Israel's closest ally, Netanyahu insisted Israel would never pull back to its 1967 borders -- which would mean big concessions of occupied land -- that Obama had said should be the basis for negotiations on creating a Palestinian state."

Israeli rebuke of Obama exposes divide on Mideast | Reuters

Since when is Reuters perfect????

As the Israeli press said, NaziYahoo will PRIVATELY agree with the principle of 1967, but PUBLICLY will put on a pretence of being against it to maintain the fragile coalition that keeps him in power in Israel.

Haaretz.Com

Netanyahu will have to reply to Obama by accepting the principle of "1967 borders with agreed land swaps." He made a step toward that direction in his speech in the Knesset this week, when he talked about preserving settlement blocs, which is the same thing in Israeli wording. On the eve of his U.S. trip, Netanyahu's advisers hinted that he will accept this principle on Friday during his close-room meeting with Obama, while presenting a less binding policy during his U.S. Congress speech on Tuesday in fear of causing the breakup of the coalition.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

They gave up the west bank, the Sinai, Gaza.
They didn't have to give up any of it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

They gave up the west bank, the Sinai, Gaza.
They didn't have to give up any of it.

Something like this?

 

[Trajan]

They gave up the west bank, the Sinai, Gaza.
They didn't have to give up any of it.

I think I am getting my threads mixed up here, there are several on this, anyway, yes they sure did.

In 04 sharon and bush exchanged formal letters as heads of state.
Its pretty clear what was expected from the palast. as Sharon enacted an Israeli retreat, pulled settlers ( physically uprooting them in some cases ) and troops from Gaza. in effect they did same way back ala Camp David. Sadat had proven his point as Egypt had regained their honor and he was in a position to keep the peace, Israel surrendered territory taken by conquest.

What was the Palestinian reaction after the Gaza pull out......*shrugs*
Anyone who was watching including several on the left realized back in 2009 that obamas request that Israel halt all settlements before the paalis started negotiations was not wise, it was in effect giving up something for exactly nothing, they were proven correct as that then became the rule, Abbas made it a pre-condition that they stop settlements before any negotiations on other points.

Abbas no longer trusts Obama this speech was framed to gain his confidence again, we'll see how that works out.

here-

The Wrath of Abbas

Fed up with the stalled peace talks, the Palestinian leader defies Israel and vents about Obama.

Palestinian Leader Mahmoud Abbas's Frustration with Obama - Newsweek

and, an excellent in depth view, oh and American Interest is left of center publication and Meade, well his reputation speaks for itself, hes an avowed democrat;


Baruch, this speaks to your comment earleir here or in another thread ala Right of Return...


May 14, 2011
White House Down in Middle East
Walter Russell Mead

This doesn’t mean that the US should give up on the peace process. But it means that to succeed we have to accept that peace is still far away. There will be no peace in the Middle East until a workable solution is found for the human problems of the Palestinian people. Part of this involves an independent Palestinian state including the West Bank and Gaza; part of it includes compensation for Palestinian refugees (and for Jews forced out of their homes throughout the Arab world by mob violence and government decree after 1948); part of it includes the resettlement of Gazans and stateless Palestinian refugees from countries like Lebanon, Syria and beyond where even today Palestinians lack passports and full legal rights. Part of it will involve the increasing isolation and marginalization of the shrinking minority of Palestinians who reject terms that the rest of the world (including more and more Muslims) recognizes as reasonably just. Part of it will come from pressure on governments (Syria and Iran for example) who consciously try to block peace: too many foreign powers and political groups feed on Palestinian misery and anger.

None of this means turning on Israel. The refugee problem in the Middle East is not solely or even primarily Israel’s fault, and Israel can’t solve it. No amount of pressure on Israel can solve the Palestinian refugee problem; Israel cannot and will not take them back and this has been clear for sixty years.

If anybody is to blame for the refugee mess, it is the United Nations and the ‘world community’. When the British gave up their League of Nations mandate over Palestine and returned it to UN jurisdiction, the UN failed in its duty to protect both Arabs and Jews. The war that broke out between Palestinians and Israelis and that created the refugee problem was a consequence of the UN’s failure to ensure an orderly implementation of the partition plan it approved. Had the Arabs won the war there would have been a massive Jewish refugee problem as desperate Jews fled from or were expelled by advancing Arab armies; when the Israelis won the war it was the Arabs who fled and/or were expelled.

We cannot have peace in the Middle East without a solution to the Palestinian refugee problem. It may be that the refugees (and their descendants: it has been more than 60 years since the Palestinians fled or were driven from their homes) will not accept any settlement that the world is willing or able to make. If they don’t, however, the conflict will not come to an end.

White House Down in Middle East | Via Meadia

 

[Too Tall]

It is sad that Obama haters must twist his words in order to make a false point. Basically, you are promoting a lie to satisfy your sick hate. The truth is Obama stated a policy clearly that every administration in recent history has held. You know that and yet you promote a lie. Any peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians must begin based on the 1967 border. There should be swaps until each entity is assured of secure borders.

Any negotiations must begin with amending the Palestinian National Charter by removing ALL of the references to destroying Israel and recognizing Israel as a sovereign state. PERIOD! Only a damned fool would give anything to a group that has a covenant vowing to destroy you and your country.