Obama: All this darned media is putting “pressure” on our democracy

[Jarhead]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

 

[beowolfe]

You all act as if what he said isn't true? It's been obvious since Clinton was POTUS that the 24-7 news cycle was putting pressure on and changing our democracy. Add the 21st century invention of bloggers and it's only more pressure. The long term question is, is it a good thing or a bad thing. Only time will tell.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No. I just dont see how it is not relevant. It is absolutely relevant.

Many such as myslef believes the President is referring to dissent.
So, I see it that he is claiming that dissent is putting pressure on democracy.
And seeing as a common phrase used by many Americans is "dissent is patriotic" then I can come to the basic conclusion, that Mr. Obama sees an act that many such as myself see as patriotic as a something putting pressure on democracy.

Cant say it any clearer than that. Anything you do to spin what I said will be futile.

I am entitled to my opinion and I clearly showed you how the patriotic thing is relevant as it pertains to my opinion.

Enjoy.

So in essence you're just reading something into what he said that you don't care who else sees it, or that it can't be tangibly supported by citing and breaking down what he said, you believe it because you believe it.

Okay, you win, I can't argue against your feelings. But don't pretend your feelings constitute an argument.

No. That is how you opted to take it.

You told me that the phrase "dissent is pratriotic" had absolutely no place in this thread.

And despite all of your spinning and twisting of my words, I showed you how I saw it differently and that it DOES have something to do with this thread.

The fact that you now want to take this debate of ours and imply it was about something else is a real sign of weakness on your part.

But please. Go for it. It is about the best you got anyway. IN MY OPINION.

Unfortunately for you I just posted actual substantive evidence that the President in no either thinks dissent is unpatriotic, nor was he in any way implying it in the OP's source. So you would well advised to stop digging such a comical hole for yourself.


btw for everyone here's the link:

Obama Michigan Graduation Speech: FULL TEXT, VIDEO

I heard that speech, incidentally, on tv sometime somewhere, or much of it anyway, and was hoping to find the link.

Eureka.

 

[Jarhead]

You all act as if what he said isn't true? It's been obvious since Clinton was POTUS that the 24-7 news cycle was putting pressure on and changing our democracy. Add the 21st century invention of bloggers and it's only more pressure. The long term question is, is it a good thing or a bad thing. Only time will tell.

But he has made it clear that it is a bad thing.

And we feel it was inappropriate for him to say that. And it was.

Why?

Becuase as you said...ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

He sees it as bad as he is not happy with his numbers. But we wont go there now.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So says Obama who regularly ridicules people who disagree with him

lol, waaaa....

 

[Skull Pilot]

You all act as if what he said isn't true? It's been obvious since Clinton was POTUS that the 24-7 news cycle was putting pressure on and changing our democracy. Add the 21st century invention of bloggers and it's only more pressure. The long term question is, is it a good thing or a bad thing. Only time will tell.

I'll post this quote again

Knowledge is power. Information is power. The secreting or hoarding of knowledge or information may be an act of tyranny camouflaged as humility.
Robin Morgan

 

[beowolfe]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

Mis-represented??? Only a complete idiot can look at this law and look at the history of our police and conclude that the AZ law will be impartially and faithfully executed. We all know that the police come from us. There will be ignorant ones, violent ones, and racist ones........simply because they come from us. They have all of the prejudices that are found in the general population. Now, unless you think that some benelovent force will wave its hand and remove these vices from the AZ police, I don't see how you can think that implementing this law will be done fairly. Hell, police can't implement traffic laws fairly.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You all act as if what he said isn't true? It's been obvious since Clinton was POTUS that the 24-7 news cycle was putting pressure on and changing our democracy. Add the 21st century invention of bloggers and it's only more pressure. The long term question is, is it a good thing or a bad thing. Only time will tell.

But he has made it clear that it is a bad thing.

And we feel it was inappropriate for him to say that. And it was.

Why?

Becuase as you said...ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

He sees it as bad as he is not happy with his numbers. But we wont go there now.

I just post minutes ago, the president saying that it could be a GOOD or a bad thing, and you blithely respond with the above.

Christ almighty

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

I don't even know what you're talking about. The AZ legislature already went back and amended the law, even they realized they'd gotten it wrong at the outset. This is all you have against Obama?

Weak, man, sad and weak.

 

[Jarhead]

So in essence you're just reading something into what he said that you don't care who else sees it, or that it can't be tangibly supported by citing and breaking down what he said, you believe it because you believe it.

Okay, you win, I can't argue against your feelings. But don't pretend your feelings constitute an argument.

No. That is how you opted to take it.

You told me that the phrase "dissent is pratriotic" had absolutely no place in this thread.

And despite all of your spinning and twisting of my words, I showed you how I saw it differently and that it DOES have something to do with this thread.

The fact that you now want to take this debate of ours and imply it was about something else is a real sign of weakness on your part.

But please. Go for it. It is about the best you got anyway. IN MY OPINION.

Unfortunately for you I just posted actual substantive evidence that the President in no either thinks dissent is unpatriotic, nor was he in any way implying it in the OP's source. So you would well advised to stop digging such a comical hole for yourself.


btw for everyone here's the link:

Obama Michigan Graduation Speech: FULL TEXT, VIDEO

I heard that speech, incidentally, on tv sometime somewhere, or much of it anyway, and was hoping to find the link.

Eureka.

There you go again. Changing the debate to support your agenda.

Ours was not a debate about what he said. It was a debate as to whether or not the phrase "dissent is patriotic" belonged in the debate.
You said it did not, I showed you why I thought it did.

Your debate tractics are childish in my opinion so I would like to end it here.

 

[007]

That darn freedom of speech, expression, and the press. Boo freaking hoo, it's getting in Obama's way.

When liberals start whining about too much democracy what they are whining about is, they can't lie to us without someone cutting in and blurting out the truth. Oh boo freaking hoo, why can't liberals have a closed society like Stalin had.

This is why they are always admiring dictators like Castro. Dictators like Castro get to jail their detractors.

See it here: Hot Air Obama: All this darned media is putting “pressure” on our democracy

Oh boo freaking hoo, those darn Ipods, Xboxes and Ipads.

This dirty little, purple lipped, socialist, marxist, racist, junior hitler wannabe OWEbama can't be KICKED out of office soon enough. But what's even more appalling at this point is the BUBBLE HEADS that will sit and listen to his BULL SHIT and SWALLOW it. How freagin' STUPID are these morons? OWEbama is the most RADICAL President this country has EVER SEEN, BAR NONE. He has put us on the FAST TRACK to financial ruin. What's happening in Greece is coming to America. It's FAILED SOCIALISM, and THAT is what little junior hitler OWEbama DOESN'T want you to hear. It puts pressure on HIM, not our republic.

 

[Some Guy]

Mis-represented??? Only a complete idiot can look at this law and look at the history of our police and conclude that the AZ law will be impartially and faithfully executed. We all know that the police come from us. There will be ignorant ones, violent ones, and racist ones........simply because they come from us. They have all of the prejudices that are found in the general population. Now, unless you think that some benelovent force will wave its hand and remove these vices from the AZ police, I don't see how you can think that implementing this law will be done fairly. Hell, police can't implement traffic laws fairly.

Why have laws at all then if someone who's charged with enforcing those law may or may not implement them in the exact manner as they were intended?

 

[Jarhead]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

I don't even know what you're talking about. The AZ legislature already went back and amended the law, even they realized they'd gotten it wrong at the outset. This is all you have against Obama?

Weak, man, sad and weak.

LMAO.

Where do you get your news from?

Never mind. I have no interest in you anymore.

Go play with someone else. Maybe find someone who plays childish games like you do.

Cya.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No. That is how you opted to take it.

You told me that the phrase "dissent is pratriotic" had absolutely no place in this thread.

And despite all of your spinning and twisting of my words, I showed you how I saw it differently and that it DOES have something to do with this thread.

The fact that you now want to take this debate of ours and imply it was about something else is a real sign of weakness on your part.

But please. Go for it. It is about the best you got anyway. IN MY OPINION.

Unfortunately for you I just posted actual substantive evidence that the President in no either thinks dissent is unpatriotic, nor was he in any way implying it in the OP's source. So you would well advised to stop digging such a comical hole for yourself.


btw for everyone here's the link:

Obama Michigan Graduation Speech: FULL TEXT, VIDEO

I heard that speech, incidentally, on tv sometime somewhere, or much of it anyway, and was hoping to find the link.

Eureka.

There you go again. Changing the debate to support your agenda.

Ours was not a debate about what he said. It was a debate as to whether or not the phrase "dissent is patriotic" belonged in the debate.
You said it did not, I showed you why I thought it did.

Your debate tractics are childish in my opinion so I would like to end it here.

You showed me nothing. In fact you specifically refused to cite anything from the speech as evidence to support the claim. In your really annoying dooshy way, I must add.

Quit being a phoney shit.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

I don't even know what you're talking about. The AZ legislature already went back and amended the law, even they realized they'd gotten it wrong at the outset. This is all you have against Obama?

Weak, man, sad and weak.

LMAO.

Where do you get your news from?

Never mind. I have no interest in you anymore.

Go play with someone else. Maybe find someone who plays childish games like you do.

Cya.

Do you deny that AZ already amended the law? Are you that uninformed?

 

[mudwhistle]

This message board is proof enough that he's right.

People come running with faked stories from WND, MM, etc. and come spread them as Gospel, and of course the more misinformed people are, the more strained the Democracy(Republic?) is. It's not rocket science.

Dude...he said this shit. It's not fake.

Wake the **** up!!!!

 

[mudwhistle]

This is from a Barack Obama speech, at the University of Michigan, a couple weeks ago.

Read:

The second way to keep our democracy healthy is to maintain a basic level of civility in our public debate. These arguments we're having over government and health care and war and taxes are serious arguments. They should arouse people's passions, and it's important for everyone to join in the debate, with all the rigor that a free people require

But we cannot expect to solve our problems if all we do is tear each other down. You can disagree with a certain policy without demonizing the person who espouses it. You can question someone's views and their judgment without questioning their motives or their patriotism. Throwing around phrases like "socialist" and "Soviet-style takeover;" "fascist" and "right-wing nut" may grab headlines, but it also has the effect of comparing our government, or our political opponents, to authoritarian, and even murderous regimes.


Again, we have seen this kind of politics in the past. It's been practiced by both fringes of the ideological spectrum, by the left and the right, since our nation's birth.

The problem with it is not the hurt feelings or the bruised egos of the public officials who are criticized.


The problem is that this kind of vilification and over-the-top rhetoric closes the door to the possibility of compromise. It undermines democratic deliberation. It prevents learning - since after all, why should we listen to a "fascist" or "socialist" or "right wing nut?" It makes it nearly impossible for people who have legitimate but bridgeable differences to sit down at the same table and hash things out. It robs us of a rational and serious debate that we need to have about the very real and very big challenges facing this nation. It coarsens our culture, and at its worst, it can send signals to the most extreme elements of our society that perhaps violence is a justifiable response.

So then why doesnt he practice what he preaches?

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

And look at all of my posts over the months. I have never been pro Obama but I have never been anti Obama. I have disagreed with many of his initiatives, but I have never slandered him.

But after his BS with this Arizona law, I feel the man is full of shit and bad for America. He seems to continually widen the divide that he swore he could close.

The man is a liar.

Mis-represented??? Only a complete idiot can look at this law and look at the history of our police and conclude that the AZ law will be impartially and faithfully executed. We all know that the police come from us. There will be ignorant ones, violent ones, and racist ones........simply because they come from us. They have all of the prejudices that are found in the general population. Now, unless you think that some benelovent force will wave its hand and remove these vices from the AZ police, I don't see how you can think that implementing this law will be done fairly. Hell, police can't implement traffic laws fairly.

Mis-represented....exactly. He used false stereotypes to demonize a whole state.

He started the ball rolling knowing exactly what it would do.

He's an instigator.

He doesn't practice what he preaches.

The only choice that Arizona has is to do something about it and fuckheads like Obama want to do nothing.

If it was a bunch of Ni@%&r's in New Orleans being killed in their homes that skinny **** would jump through fire and run bare-footed through broken glass to do something....or at least make it appear like it.

If the people breaking into this country were voting GOP he's have them thrown in jail or deported in a matter of months.

As it is...white ranchers don't rate too high on Obama's scale.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This message board is proof enough that he's right.

People come running with faked stories from WND, MM, etc. and come spread them as Gospel, and of course the more misinformed people are, the more strained the Democracy(Republic?) is. It's not rocket science.

Dude...he said this shit. It's not fake.

Wake the **** up!!!!

You're a proven liar. Who gives a **** what you think?

This thread is classic proof that once the wingnut herd sinks their teeth into a narrative, not matter how wrong it is, no amount of evidence, reason, facts, logic, and rationality can dislodge it.

 

[George Costanza]

I totally agree and have been very upset at the bush admin, the obama admin, and the MSM for partaking in all this dissinformation....I mean just look at the latest lies about arizona's new immigration laws. The media is out there calling it racist and all sorts of other crap that makes no sense if you read the bill itself.

Kudos to you costanza for being a liberal who understands that all this missinformation from Obama and his MSM buddies is just as bad as the stuff we got from his predecessor, kudso sir!!!

I know that the kudos are tongue in cheek - but try this on for size:

T'other night, I saw this long segment on some news show which was saying that this new AZ law gives police the right to detain and question people in order to check their citizenship status. Period.

That is flat wrong. The AZ law allows police to do this during an otherwise "lawful contact," i.e., they have to have some OTHER reason to be talking to the person than merely wanting to check their citizenship status. Yet, this news segment was blithely proceeding on the assumption that no such prerequisite existed and, of course, lambasting the new law.

I am not a big fan of the AZ law for a number of reasons - but this news show had it all wrong.

Kudos now? Huh? Huh?

BTW - not sure I agree that "Obama" is putting out wrong infomration, but this news show sure was.

 

[George Costanza]

He intentionally misrepresented the Arizona law and made it look like a hateful law creating an inordinate amount of anger across the nation.

I would really like to see what you are talking about here. Do you have an example of how President Obama "intentionally misrepresented" the AZ law?