NY Times: Why Should Immigrants 'Respect Our Borders'? The West Never Respected Theirs

[JimBowie1958]

The indigenous population has recovered from the plagues brought unintentionally by Europeans.

There are more of them now across the Americas than when Columbus arrived.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Where Europeans went in North America, they brought disease that wiped out an estimated 75% of the Native American population. They brought wholesale murder with their muskets. They insisted on dependency for the Native American survivors, a small and battered group.

Got a reliable
documented source for that number?

Go to hell.

You lead the way. It sounds like you know how to get there.

Many reliable sources have reported similar or higher numbers; I've also heard 80%.


The Story Of... Smallpox – and other Deadly Eurasian Germs


Much of the credit for European military success in the New World can be handed to the superiority of their weapons, their literary heritage, even the fact they had unique load-bearing mammals, like horses. These factors combined, gave the conquistadors a massive advantage over the sophisticated civilisations of the Aztec and Inca empires.

But weapons alone can't account for the breathtaking speed with which the indigenous population of the New World were completely wiped out.

Within just a few generations, the continents of the Americas were virtually emptied of their native inhabitants – some academics estimate that approximately 20 million people may have died in the years following the European invasion – up to 95% of the population of the Americas.

No medieval force, no matter how bloodthirsty, could have achieved such enormous levels of genocide. Instead, Europeans were aided by a deadly secret weapon they weren't even aware they were carrying: Smallpox.

Guns Germs & Steel: Variables. Smallpox | PBS

Small pox the white mans fault
Maybe a Congo mud hutter will return the favor and give you an ebola chan blanket. Cause that'll make everything right..... derp


i got a question
Who do i ask for reparations ? I DIDUNUFFIN

History of Smallpox
Origin of Smallpox
The origin of smallpox is unknown. Smallpox is thought to date back to the Egyptian Empire around the 3rd century BCE (Before Common Era), based on a smallpox-like rash found on three mummies. The earliest written description of a disease that clearly resembles smallpox appeared in China in the 4th century CE (Common Era). Early written descriptions also appeared in India in the 7th century and in Asia Minor in the 10th century.

Spread of Smallpox
The global spread of smallpox can be traced to the growth and spread of civilizations, exploration, and expanding trade routes over the centuries.
Historical Highlights:

6th Century – Increased trade with China and Korea introduces smallpox into Japan.

7th Century – Arab expansion spreads smallpox into northern Africa, Spain, and Portugal.
Muslims fault !
11th Century – Crusades further spread smallpox in Europe.


15th Century – Portuguese occupation introduces smallpox into part of western Africa.

16th Century – European colonization and the African slave trade import smallpox into the Caribbean and Central and South America.
17th Century – European colonization imports smallpox into North America.
18th Century – Exploration by Great Britain introduces smallpox into Australia
History of Smallpox | Smallpox | CDC

 

[OldLady]

Good grief! Here’s the difference NYT:

1. Wherever we or the European’s went, we brought education, medicine, commerce and, in general, civilization.

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.




Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

They make a valid point.

No they don't have a valid point. These are not Aztecs and Mayans invading our borders. Those people were wiped out by disease centuries ago. Probably 90% of them prior to the Jamestown colony. The invaders from Central America are of Spanish, ie European ancestry. The Spanish invaded and fucked up South America. Now their descendants are trying to invade and **** up North America. If you really want to go along with the dumbshit NYT opinion writer's plan, all these illegal aliens we're getting across our southern border should be heading for Spain.

Eric Arthur Blair
Maybe you'll believe it if another Alt Right loony tells you?

 

[bullwinkle]

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.

You got that right! What if the Drumph's had been stopped at the border? We'd be so much better off today.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Good grief! Here’s the difference NYT:

1. Wherever we or the European’s went, we brought education, medicine, commerce and, in general, civilization.

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.




Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

They make a valid point.

No they don't have a valid point. These are not Aztecs and Mayans invading our borders. Those people were wiped out by disease centuries ago. Probably 90% of them prior to the Jamestown colony. The invaders from Central America are of Spanish, ie European ancestry. The Spanish invaded and fucked up South America. Now their descendants are trying to invade and **** up North America. If you really want to go along with the dumbshit NYT opinion writer's plan, all these illegal aliens we're getting across our southern border should be heading for Spain.

A lot of Guatemalans actually are Mayans.

 

[OldLady]

Where Europeans went in North America, they brought disease that wiped out an estimated 75% of the Native American population. They brought wholesale murder with their muskets. They insisted on dependency for the Native American survivors, a small and battered group.

Go to hell.

Now apply circumstances of their time — not today— and consider survival. Of course, that wouldn’t fit the agenda.
What’s more, those indigenous tribes completely obliterated tribes before them so you need to hold them even more accountable.
Indian karma perhaps.
At least Europeans offered reservations.

I was specifically addressing the OP's opening statement. Read it again, then read mine.

I'm not arguing such stupid ******* bullshit with you that justifies every murder by Europeans who found these people inconveniently in their way.
My ancestors were settlers here; I know that the fighting went both ways. I'm a descendant of Hannah Duston, FFS, and I also know that the tribes fought amongst each other just like the Europeans did and do. It excuses NOTHING. So don't even try. It just makes you look lame.

No, it makes me look spot-on because I am.
You come across as typically agenda driven.
You don’t like the way things were then? Take it up with them. And sacrifice any convenience.
You can’t apply today’s standards to another time. That’s completely dishonest and agenda-driven.

So it was okay back then to invade another country and take its people by force or murder them? I seem to remember that Europeans fought back when that happened to them. The Native Americans had no guns or cannons. It was not a fair fight. The Europeans came here to get rich on the natural resources. They were not going to let the people who already lived here and CALLED THIS LAND HOME stop them.

You can't justify it. It was blind Imperialism and it has happened throughout history and eventually someone will do it to us. But you have no right to say it was somehow okay.

Again, you apply today’s standards to different time. You can’t do that. Consider how unusual and non-human those tribes appeared to an advanced culture. Then consider the Darwinism and survivalism of the time.

If the Europeans had an "advanced" culture, they would not have reacted like every stone age man since time immemorial when confronted with a "stranger." Screeched, beat their chest and attacked. And it wasn't as if the strangers were attacking them. They were invading the "strangers' " land. I'm not feeling terribly sorry for us that we took some heat for that.

What you are doing is looking at history through the Viewmaster of the winners. The Native Americans, the tribal Africans, the Hawaians, the Indians....THEY never thought it was alright. The editorial in the OP is simply looking at this from a different perspective. I think everyone should be able to understand that.

 

[OldLady]

Good grief! Here’s the difference NYT:

1. Wherever we or the European’s went, we brought education, medicine, commerce and, in general, civilization.

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.




Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

They make a valid point.

No they don't have a valid point. These are not Aztecs and Mayans invading our borders. Those people were wiped out by disease centuries ago. Probably 90% of them prior to the Jamestown colony. The invaders from Central America are of Spanish, ie European ancestry. The Spanish invaded and fucked up South America. Now their descendants are trying to invade and **** up North America. If you really want to go along with the dumbshit NYT opinion writer's plan, all these illegal aliens we're getting across our southern border should be heading for Spain.

A lot of Guatemalans actually are Mayans.

It always cracks me up that people think the Mayans just "poof," disappeared from the face of the Earth. They just moved. Their descendants still live around there.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Good grief! Here’s the difference NYT:

1. Wherever we or the European’s went, we brought education, medicine, commerce and, in general, civilization.

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.




Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

They make a valid point.

No they don't have a valid point. These are not Aztecs and Mayans invading our borders. Those people were wiped out by disease centuries ago. Probably 90% of them prior to the Jamestown colony. The invaders from Central America are of Spanish, ie European ancestry. The Spanish invaded and fucked up South America. Now their descendants are trying to invade and **** up North America. If you really want to go along with the dumbshit NYT opinion writer's plan, all these illegal aliens we're getting across our southern border should be heading for Spain.

A lot of Guatemalans actually are Mayans.

It always cracks me up that people think the Mayans just "poof," disappeared from the face of the Earth. They just moved. Their descendants still live around there.

Most Spanish speaking Guatemalans have Mayan ancestry, but quite the number of Guatemalans also speak Mayan languages.

Languages of Guatemala - Wikipedia

 

[RealDave]

Good grief! Here’s the difference NYT:

1. Wherever we or the European’s went, we brought education, medicine, commerce and, in general, civilization.

2. What the invaders are bringing is disease, crime, dependency, and in general, barbarianism.




Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

Because the colonists never brought diseases to the Native Americans.

No one slaughtered the Native Americans

They came to America & stole land & killed those that were in the way.

 

[RealDave]

Some of those Central American countries have better vaccination rates than the US.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

If the Europeans had an "advanced" culture, they would not have reacted like every stone age man since time immemorial when confronted with a "stranger." Screeched, beat their chest and attacked. And it wasn't as if the strangers were attacking them. They were invading the "strangers' " land. I'm not feeling terribly sorry for us that we took some heat for that.

What you are doing is looking at history through the Viewmaster of the winners. The Native Americans, the tribal Africans, the Hawaians, the Indians....THEY never thought it was alright. The editorial in the OP is simply looking at this from a different perspective. I think everyone should be able to understand that.

And you are looking at things from a selective guilt ridden viewpoint. Every nation on earth was taken from someone else.
Every people took what they wanted from someone else who couldn't defend themselves. Native Americans, Africans,
Aztecs etc.

You are merely judging us because you have no perspective. It doesn't make us innocent of the land we claimed. It just doesn't make us any worse than anyone else. We are just more honest about things and we dwell on our shortcomings. Get out of your bubble and look at ALL of history. Not just the relatively short time span since the New World was conquered.
You might feel better once you deal with history honestly.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It's called progress and the spread of civilization.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Eric Arthur Blair
Maybe you'll believe it if another Alt Right loony tells you?

Not unless he's some authority on the issue with a fact based knowledge of the issue.

 

[OldLady]

If the Europeans had an "advanced" culture, they would not have reacted like every stone age man since time immemorial when confronted with a "stranger." Screeched, beat their chest and attacked. And it wasn't as if the strangers were attacking them. They were invading the "strangers' " land. I'm not feeling terribly sorry for us that we took some heat for that.

What you are doing is looking at history through the Viewmaster of the winners. The Native Americans, the tribal Africans, the Hawaians, the Indians....THEY never thought it was alright. The editorial in the OP is simply looking at this from a different perspective. I think everyone should be able to understand that.

And you are looking at things from a selective guilt ridden viewpoint. Every nation on earth was taken from someone else.
Every people took what they wanted from someone else who couldn't defend themselves. Native Americans, Africans,
Aztecs etc.

You are merely judging us because you have no perspective. It doesn't make us innocent of the land we claimed. It just doesn't make us any worse than anyone else. We are just more honest about things and we dwell on our shortcomings. Get out of your bubble and look at ALL of history. Not just the relatively short time span since the New World was conquered.
You might feel better once you deal with history honestly.

Actually, I agree with you 100%. What I don't agree with is people like Roshawn.. who try to pretty it up and justify it. It is exactly what you say.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Now apply circumstances of their time — not today— and consider survival. Of course, that wouldn’t fit the agenda.
What’s more, those indigenous tribes completely obliterated tribes before them so you need to hold them even more accountable.
Indian karma perhaps.
At least Europeans offered reservations.

I was specifically addressing the OP's opening statement. Read it again, then read mine.

I'm not arguing such stupid ******* bullshit with you that justifies every murder by Europeans who found these people inconveniently in their way.
My ancestors were settlers here; I know that the fighting went both ways. I'm a descendant of Hannah Duston, FFS, and I also know that the tribes fought amongst each other just like the Europeans did and do. It excuses NOTHING. So don't even try. It just makes you look lame.

No, it makes me look spot-on because I am.
You come across as typically agenda driven.
You don’t like the way things were then? Take it up with them. And sacrifice any convenience.
You can’t apply today’s standards to another time. That’s completely dishonest and agenda-driven.

So it was okay back then to invade another country and take its people by force or murder them? I seem to remember that Europeans fought back when that happened to them. The Native Americans had no guns or cannons. It was not a fair fight. The Europeans came here to get rich on the natural resources. They were not going to let the people who already lived here and CALLED THIS LAND HOME stop them.

You can't justify it. It was blind Imperialism and it has happened throughout history and eventually someone will do it to us. But you have no right to say it was somehow okay.

Again, you apply today’s standards to different time. You can’t do that. Consider how unusual and non-human those tribes appeared to an advanced culture. Then consider the Darwinism and survivalism of the time.

If the Europeans had an "advanced" culture, they would not have reacted like every stone age man since time immemorial when confronted with a "stranger." Screeched, beat their chest and attacked. And it wasn't as if the strangers were attacking them. They were invading the "strangers' " land. I'm not feeling terribly sorry for us that we took some heat for that.

What you are doing is looking at history through the Viewmaster of the winners. The Native Americans, the tribal Africans, the Hawaians, the Indians....THEY never thought it was alright. The editorial in the OP is simply looking at this from a different perspective. I think everyone should be able to understand that.

They were in survival mode as well as legitimately superior mode.
You can’t apply today’s standards to previous eras. It’s dishonest.

 

[ColonelAngus]

They don’t need to respect our borders if we respect our own.