Nuclear meltdown in Japan reactor?

[Ravi]

Well, if you ever saw the documentary about what the Japanese do to porpoises, maybe the porpoises have a better chance now.



I don't think it will be that bad, honestly, to anyone not in the general region...except for the sushi industry, maybe?

Don't the reactors by themselves eventually start cooling down?

 

[Old Rocks]

Not for a long time by themselves.

 

[Liability]

Well, if you ever saw the documentary about what the Japanese do to porpoises, maybe the porpoises have a better chance now.



I don't think it will be that bad, honestly, to anyone not in the general region...except for the sushi industry, maybe?

Don't the reactors by themselves eventually start cooling down?

The melted-down rods do not cool down on their own. They go molten and literally melt into the Earth. I presume at some point they disperse or hit magma, but the release of dangerous high radiation will have already gone un-contained if it ever gets that bad. (I mean, among other things, the molten radioactive core at some point hits ground water and then you can get explosive venting of steam -- very radioactive at that point and it gets pretty widely dispersed.)

I believe there is much more to the story of how bad the radiation range and effects are (or will go). This is not a conspiracy theory. I believe we will simply gain more understanding of all these implications as time marches on. But even now we know enough to see that this is a very bad situation and it appears to be far from "under control."

BBC News - Radiation fears spread as Fukushima workers battle leak

 

[Old Rocks]

I was also hunting for information on how bad a full meltdown would be. In doing so, I found this article by a representative of the Nuclear Industry. The reading of it gives one a full understanding of why this industry is pretty well over with in the US.

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

 

[Ravi]

Sticky resin may help. On Thursday, Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) plans to test it, spraying this adhesive substance on an area of ground near the plant, said Japanese nuclear safety authorities on Wednesday. The idea is to glue down any fallen radioactive particles.

A giant tarp has also been proposed. Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said nuclear experts might cover reactor buildings with a special material to try and stop emission of radioactive substances.

Japan considers unusual fixes to contain radioactive leak - CSMonitor.com

 

[Valerie]

Sticky resin may help. On Thursday, Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) plans to test it, spraying this adhesive substance on an area of ground near the plant, said Japanese nuclear safety authorities on Wednesday. The idea is to glue down any fallen radioactive particles.

A giant tarp has also been proposed. Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said nuclear experts might cover reactor buildings with a special material to try and stop emission of radioactive substances.

Japan considers unusual fixes to contain radioactive leak - CSMonitor.com

Ravi, your new hat looks like it's been zapped by radiation!

 

[Ravi]

Sticky resin may help. On Thursday, Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) plans to test it, spraying this adhesive substance on an area of ground near the plant, said Japanese nuclear safety authorities on Wednesday. The idea is to glue down any fallen radioactive particles.

A giant tarp has also been proposed. Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said nuclear experts might cover reactor buildings with a special material to try and stop emission of radioactive substances.

Japan considers unusual fixes to contain radioactive leak - CSMonitor.com

Ravi, your new hat looks like it's been zapped by radiation!

Don't be silly. It is coated with invisible sticky stuff that keeps any radiation raining down from the sky from landing on moi.

 

[Valerie]

Japan considers unusual fixes to contain radioactive leak - CSMonitor.com

Ravi, your new hat looks like it's been zapped by radiation!

Don't be silly. It is coated with invisible sticky stuff that keeps any radiation raining down from the sky from landing on moi.

Wow, that is great! What a snazzy idea!

 

[k2skier]

Like I said this AM........we're getting our chains pulled. The media has played the entire world for the past few days........and will for the next several.

Tomorrows headline will be, "Fire in 4th reactor gets even hotter!!!"


Im setting up an over/under on the reactor meltdown crap..........Im taking 6 and the under!!!

projecting/assuming like this makes you look like a major douche bag now...

 

[k2skier]

Looking at power production on a risk reward basis there have been fewer deaths from nuclear energy than coal, oil, natural gas, hydro-electric.

Well, let's hope that in two weeks this is still true.

It will still be true in 2 weeks. All the nuclear power plant reactors that could "melt down" have been de-commissioned for over the past 30 years or have been updated to use a sub critical mass fuel just like this ones in Japan.

A nuclear meltdown is nearly impossible. All that happens in a partial "melt down" is that 1 or 2 fuel rods overheated and deformed. There is no way for white hot molten weapons grade uranium to spill out of the reactor confines to create a huge "Plutonium mushroom cloud".

There are no eyes on these reactors. All info comes from radiation monitoring away from these plants. The media is hyping this because of the lack of real time eyes on certain facts. Just because nobody can give the media definite answers, speculation & fantasy fill the news.

projecting/assuming like this makes you look like a major douche bag now...

 

[westwall]

I was also hunting for information on how bad a full meltdown would be. In doing so, I found this article by a representative of the Nuclear Industry. The reading of it gives one a full understanding of why this industry is pretty well over with in the US.

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

What the article shows is how little the media knows about what reports and how little they care to be accurate. I wonder if you actually read the article? It has this paragraph........

"Despite what you may be hearing, this will NOT leave vast areas of land uninhabitable for generations. Again look no further than TMI where the other reactor, Unit 1, remains in Operation today and will continue to do so for another 20 years. The people in the areas surrounding TMI were never in any tangible danger and remain perfectly safe there today."

 

[Old Rocks]

So that is what you think the article said?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?
By Jack Gamble | Published March 14, 2011
Share77


Let me end by saying that what is happening at the Japanese reactors is serious. My goal is not to cover this up or make it seem like nothing is happening. My aim is to put the actual risk in perspective in contrast to the chicken-little reporting you may see in the main stream media. I’ll add that the Japanese government and nuclear industry are handling the situation in a professional and transparent way as they follow procedures and contingency plans that have been drilled and practiced for years. This plant stood up to two helpings of the very worst that mother nature can dish out and the fact that nobody has been killed as as result of the quake and tsunami hitting the plant is a testament to the resilient design and inherent safety of the Light Water Reactor. Unfortunately for the people of Japan, much of the surrounding area did not fare as well as the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant did.

This was written 3 days after the earthquake and resultant tsunami. It states that the situation would not become serious enough to endanger people beyond the 12 mile evacuation zone.

Yet, here we are today with the water that is in the tunnels at levels that equal a years exposure in 15 minutes for those working there. Plutonium has been detected that came from at least one of the reactors. Levels hazardous to health have been detected as far as 40 kilometers from the plant. Iodine and cesium are decteted in the air, soil, and seawater near the plant. They are still trying to keep these reactors from a complete meltdown, and really, have no idea of what the results of their attempts really are.

They had to resort to pumping seawater directly into the reactors to prevent a complete meltdown. They used helicopter drops and hi-power water canons to cool the rods in the storage pools that were also melting down and spewing radiation into the atmosphere. These are actions that are not at all 'normal' and planned.

The average citizen reading this engineers analysis will look at what followed, and state that these people have no clue. And turn thumbs down on further nuclear construction here in the US. All his assurances have been shown to be BS. He created an even worse situation by his comments.

 

[Old Rocks]

UN Nuclear Officials: Radiation High Outside Evacuation Zone

VIENNA -- Recent radiation readings outside the exclusion zone around Japan's nuclear disaster show radiation substantially higher than levels at which the U.N. nuclear agency would recommend evacuations, agency officials said Wednesday.

The comments could add to the debate over how far people need to stay away from Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex, which was crippled in the country's March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

Elena Buglova, an official from the International Atomic Energy Agency, said the reading was 2 megabecquerels per square meter at the village of Iitate, adding that "as a ratio it was about two times higher" than levels at which the agency recommends evacuations.

 

[westwall]

So that is what you think the article said?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?
By Jack Gamble | Published March 14, 2011
Share77


Let me end by saying that what is happening at the Japanese reactors is serious. My goal is not to cover this up or make it seem like nothing is happening. My aim is to put the actual risk in perspective in contrast to the chicken-little reporting you may see in the main stream media. I’ll add that the Japanese government and nuclear industry are handling the situation in a professional and transparent way as they follow procedures and contingency plans that have been drilled and practiced for years. This plant stood up to two helpings of the very worst that mother nature can dish out and the fact that nobody has been killed as as result of the quake and tsunami hitting the plant is a testament to the resilient design and inherent safety of the Light Water Reactor. Unfortunately for the people of Japan, much of the surrounding area did not fare as well as the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant did.

This was written 3 days after the earthquake and resultant tsunami. It states that the situation would not become serious enough to endanger people beyond the 12 mile evacuation zone.

Yet, here we are today with the water that is in the tunnels at levels that equal a years exposure in 15 minutes for those working there. Plutonium has been detected that came from at least one of the reactors. Levels hazardous to health have been detected as far as 40 kilometers from the plant. Iodine and cesium are decteted in the air, soil, and seawater near the plant. They are still trying to keep these reactors from a complete meltdown, and really, have no idea of what the results of their attempts really are.

They had to resort to pumping seawater directly into the reactors to prevent a complete meltdown. They used helicopter drops and hi-power water canons to cool the rods in the storage pools that were also melting down and spewing radiation into the atmosphere. These are actions that are not at all 'normal' and planned.

The average citizen reading this engineers analysis will look at what followed, and state that these people have no clue. And turn thumbs down on further nuclear construction here in the US. All his assurances have been shown to be BS. He created an even worse situation by his comments.

And the paragraph I referenced is still valid. The immediate area around the reactors is toast, no argument. However, just like TMI, no one is going to die (unless they do something really stupid) and in a few years they will be able to start de-comissioning the reactors.

No one is defending the actions of the TEPCO here either. If you bother to look one post I made takes them to task for being incredibly arrogant nd believeing they didn't have to pay attention to the potential problems that would arise from an earthquake.

This is a case of operator error. Had they done the simple thing of placing their diesel generators on the roof's of the containment buildings there would not be the disaster occuring. That simple thing would have prevented all of it.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is very clearly demonstrated in this case.

 

[Ravi]

Even if it isn't "worse" than Chernobyl it is harmful to the Japanese simply because it has the power to contaminate a large part of a small country.

 

[Ravi]

So that is what you think the article said?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?
By Jack Gamble | Published March 14, 2011
Share77


Let me end by saying that what is happening at the Japanese reactors is serious. My goal is not to cover this up or make it seem like nothing is happening. My aim is to put the actual risk in perspective in contrast to the chicken-little reporting you may see in the main stream media. I’ll add that the Japanese government and nuclear industry are handling the situation in a professional and transparent way as they follow procedures and contingency plans that have been drilled and practiced for years. This plant stood up to two helpings of the very worst that mother nature can dish out and the fact that nobody has been killed as as result of the quake and tsunami hitting the plant is a testament to the resilient design and inherent safety of the Light Water Reactor. Unfortunately for the people of Japan, much of the surrounding area did not fare as well as the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant did.

This was written 3 days after the earthquake and resultant tsunami. It states that the situation would not become serious enough to endanger people beyond the 12 mile evacuation zone.

Yet, here we are today with the water that is in the tunnels at levels that equal a years exposure in 15 minutes for those working there. Plutonium has been detected that came from at least one of the reactors. Levels hazardous to health have been detected as far as 40 kilometers from the plant. Iodine and cesium are decteted in the air, soil, and seawater near the plant. They are still trying to keep these reactors from a complete meltdown, and really, have no idea of what the results of their attempts really are.

They had to resort to pumping seawater directly into the reactors to prevent a complete meltdown. They used helicopter drops and hi-power water canons to cool the rods in the storage pools that were also melting down and spewing radiation into the atmosphere. These are actions that are not at all 'normal' and planned.

The average citizen reading this engineers analysis will look at what followed, and state that these people have no clue. And turn thumbs down on further nuclear construction here in the US. All his assurances have been shown to be BS. He created an even worse situation by his comments.

And the paragraph I referenced is still valid. The immediate area around the reactors is toast, no argument. However, just like TMI, no one is going to die (unless they do something really stupid) and in a few years they will be able to start de-comissioning the reactors.

No one is defending the actions of the TEPCO here either. If you bother to look one post I made takes them to task for being incredibly arrogant nd believeing they didn't have to pay attention to the potential problems that would arise from an earthquake.

This is a case of operator error. Had they done the simple thing of placing their diesel generators on the roof's of the containment buildings there would not be the disaster occuring. That simple thing would have prevented all of it.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is very clearly demonstrated in this case.

Yeah, operator error leads to boneheaded plans to spray plastic or throw a tarp over a nuclear accident.

Operator error equals humans being in over their heads.

 

[Valerie]

 

[westwall]

So that is what you think the article said?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?

What Does “Nuclear Meltdown” Mean?
By Jack Gamble | Published March 14, 2011
Share77


Let me end by saying that what is happening at the Japanese reactors is serious. My goal is not to cover this up or make it seem like nothing is happening. My aim is to put the actual risk in perspective in contrast to the chicken-little reporting you may see in the main stream media. I’ll add that the Japanese government and nuclear industry are handling the situation in a professional and transparent way as they follow procedures and contingency plans that have been drilled and practiced for years. This plant stood up to two helpings of the very worst that mother nature can dish out and the fact that nobody has been killed as as result of the quake and tsunami hitting the plant is a testament to the resilient design and inherent safety of the Light Water Reactor. Unfortunately for the people of Japan, much of the surrounding area did not fare as well as the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant did.

This was written 3 days after the earthquake and resultant tsunami. It states that the situation would not become serious enough to endanger people beyond the 12 mile evacuation zone.

Yet, here we are today with the water that is in the tunnels at levels that equal a years exposure in 15 minutes for those working there. Plutonium has been detected that came from at least one of the reactors. Levels hazardous to health have been detected as far as 40 kilometers from the plant. Iodine and cesium are decteted in the air, soil, and seawater near the plant. They are still trying to keep these reactors from a complete meltdown, and really, have no idea of what the results of their attempts really are.

They had to resort to pumping seawater directly into the reactors to prevent a complete meltdown. They used helicopter drops and hi-power water canons to cool the rods in the storage pools that were also melting down and spewing radiation into the atmosphere. These are actions that are not at all 'normal' and planned.

The average citizen reading this engineers analysis will look at what followed, and state that these people have no clue. And turn thumbs down on further nuclear construction here in the US. All his assurances have been shown to be BS. He created an even worse situation by his comments.

And the paragraph I referenced is still valid. The immediate area around the reactors is toast, no argument. However, just like TMI, no one is going to die (unless they do something really stupid) and in a few years they will be able to start de-comissioning the reactors.

No one is defending the actions of the TEPCO here either. If you bother to look one post I made takes them to task for being incredibly arrogant nd believeing they didn't have to pay attention to the potential problems that would arise from an earthquake.

This is a case of operator error. Had they done the simple thing of placing their diesel generators on the roof's of the containment buildings there would not be the disaster occuring. That simple thing would have prevented all of it.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is very clearly demonstrated in this case.

Yeah, operator error leads to boneheaded plans to spray plastic or throw a tarp over a nuclear accident.

Operator error equals humans being in over their heads.

No, it doesn't. They weren't in over their heads. They allowed their innate arrogance to get the better of them and not follow a very simple safety protocol. It's unbelievable that it happened and even more ridiculous is how inept they were immediately following the disaster. And all of it broken down to arrogance and not having a plan worked out before hand.

 

[Old Rocks]

And how well are plans worked out for other reactors? We have several near faults. Some near seashore. Given the arrogance with which that particular engineer dismissed the possibility of the situation getting out of hand, he wrote that three days after the quake and tsunami, how many other such foolish assumptions are we operating on in our own plants?

Unfortunately for the whole nuclear industry, this is exactly what you and other nuclear boosters have been saying could not possibly happen. And now it is happening, and still getting worse. The outcome has the potential to still get even worse.

You and others here were quick to state it could not reach this point. Now you are stating that it will not get worse. As much as I hope that you are correct, and this will be as bad as it gets, I think that hope has little chance.

 

[westwall]

And how well are plans worked out for other reactors? We have several near faults. Some near seashore. Given the arrogance with which that particular engineer dismissed the possibility of the situation getting out of hand, he wrote that three days after the quake and tsunami, how many other such foolish assumptions are we operating on in our own plants?

Unfortunately for the whole nuclear industry, this is exactly what you and other nuclear boosters have been saying could not possibly happen. And now it is happening, and still getting worse. The outcome has the potential to still get even worse.

You and others here were quick to state it could not reach this point. Now you are stating that it will not get worse. As much as I hope that you are correct, and this will be as bad as it gets, I think that hope has little chance.

Wrong again. You just love putting words in peoples mouths don't you? Regardless, no one in my field will ever discount the capability of humans to be stupid and or arrogant to the point where something like this happens. However, we have a very good model of how Nuke plants can be run. They have been doing it for a very long time and have never had a problem. Let's see if you can figure out who I'm talking about.