NRA General Counsel Robert Dowlut Convicted of Murder

[Impenitent]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

 

[Impenitent]

We wish to make guns harder for criminals to get. It is you who accommodate them. Criminals can purchase guns openly in gun shows in 33 states because of the NRA, and numbskulls like you.

Lying again?

You must be a democrat.

While there is no requirement for private individuals to conduct a background check before selling their personal property to another private party - a clearly absurd concept, it is already illegal to KNOWINGLY sell a firearm to a convicted felon.

Hey, I get it - if you tell the truth, your argument falls apart, so it's George W. Bush's fault that you lie.....

the SFB anti gun morons ignore human nature, reality and common sense

they think people who commit major league felonies and traffic in narcotics will either obey or be deterred to the point of not committing additional crimes by a gun law

they also believe that people who have never committed a crime with their weapons, should be required to obey additional laws to stop them from doing stuff they have never done

at first you can attribute such stupidity to ignorance or a lack of IQ

but after the facts have been rammed up their asses dozes of times and they still keep crapping back the same idiocy, you have to assume they are dishonest mendacious assholes whose real motivations have NOTHING to do with crime

You asked for proof that background checks reduced crime and I gave it. You aren"t gonna believe it, so I don't think you are an honest debater.

Laws like this will make it harder, not easier for a criminal to ply his trade.

How will background checks impede you, if you are already obeying the law? How do they stop your well-armed militia? If these laws seriously affect your current activities, maybe your current activities need some revision.

 

[WinterBorn]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

That is an admission that using the background check system gives someone enough info to own your ID. I think you are being quite inventive to suggest it means I would sell my guns, much less that I would sell them to someone I do not know.

 

[turtledude]

We wish to make guns harder for criminals to get. It is you who accommodate them. Criminals can purchase guns openly in gun shows in 33 states because of the NRA, and numbskulls like you.

Lying again?

You must be a democrat.

While there is no requirement for private individuals to conduct a background check before selling their personal property to another private party - a clearly absurd concept, it is already illegal to KNOWINGLY sell a firearm to a convicted felon.

Hey, I get it - if you tell the truth, your argument falls apart, so it's George W. Bush's fault that you lie.....

the SFB anti gun morons ignore human nature, reality and common sense

they think people who commit major league felonies and traffic in narcotics will either obey or be deterred to the point of not committing additional crimes by a gun law

they also believe that people who have never committed a crime with their weapons, should be required to obey additional laws to stop them from doing stuff they have never done

at first you can attribute such stupidity to ignorance or a lack of IQ

but after the facts have been rammed up their asses dozes of times and they still keep crapping back the same idiocy, you have to assume they are dishonest mendacious assholes whose real motivations have NOTHING to do with crime

You asked for proofthat background checks reduced crime and I gave it. You aren"t gonna believe it, so I don't think you are an honest debater.

Laws like this will make it harder, not easier for a criminal to ply his trade.

How will background checks impede you, if you are already obeying the law? How do they stop your well-armed militia? If these laws seriously affect your current activities, maybe your current activities need some revision.

why could none of the studies designed to support the brady bill find any evidence that those checks decreased crime?

and lets suppose some guy with a clean record who lives out in the country sells his pistol to his neighbor and fails to drive 45 minutes into town to do the BGC? you want him to go to jail I suspect. you want him to be branded a felon so he cannot ever own a gun again. that is the scheme behind the private background check drive

 

[turtledude]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

That is an admission that using the background check system gives someone enough info to own your ID. I think you are being quite inventive to suggest it means I would sell my guns, much less that I would sell them to someone I do not know.

does anyone trust the government to let them have a complete list of every gun every citizen owns?

 

[Impenitent]

We wish to make guns harder for criminals to get. It is you who accommodate them. Criminals can purchase guns openly in gun shows in 33 states because of the NRA, and numbskulls like you.

Lying again?

You must be a democrat.

While there is no requirement for private individuals to conduct a background check before selling their personal property to another private party - a clearly absurd concept, it is already illegal to KNOWINGLY sell a firearm to a convicted felon.

Hey, I get it - if you tell the truth, your argument falls apart, so it's George W. Bush's fault that you lie.....

the SFB anti gun morons ignore human nature, reality and common sense

they think people who commit major league felonies and traffic in narcotics will either obey or be deterred to the point of not committing additional crimes by a gun law

they also believe that people who have never committed a crime with their weapons, should be required to obey additional laws to stop them from doing stuff they have never done

at first you can attribute such stupidity to ignorance or a lack of IQ

but after the facts have been rammed up their asses dozes of times and they still keep crapping back the same idiocy, you have to assume they are dishonest mendacious assholes whose real motivations have NOTHING to do with crime

You asked for proofthat background checks reduced crime and I gave it. You aren"t gonna believe it, so I don't think you are an honest debater.

Laws like this will make it harder, not easier for a criminal to ply his trade.

How will background checks impede you, if you are already obeying the law? How do they stop your well-armed militia? If these laws seriously affect your current activities, maybe your current activities need some revision.

why could none of the studies designed to support the brady bill find any evidence that those checks decreased crime?

and lets suppose some guy with a clean record who lives out in the country sells his pistol to his neighbor and fails to drive 45 minutes into town to do the BGC? you want him to go to jail I suspect. you want him to be branded a felon so he cannot ever own a gun again. that is the scheme behind the private background check drive

Violent crime did go down after the Brady bill.

There are politicians and gun control proponents who claim the Brady Act was a factor in producing the visible drop in homicide and violent crime of the last several years (for a display of homicide rates, see chart). For example Bill Clinton said: "I would close the gun show loophole, because the Brady bill has worked superbly. It’s given us a 35 percent drop in gun crime and a 31 year low in the homicide rate, and kept a half a million people — felons, fugitives, stalkers, from getting handguns." (April 12, 2000, NBC’s Tom Brokaw discusses gun control with the president) And Sarah Brady, Chairwoman of Handgun Control Inc., claimed: "The new FBI report demonstrates that the significant drop in the homicide rate last year is clearly linked to new efforts at gun tracing by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the Brady Law, and state anti-gun trafficking initiatives such as Virginia's one-gun-a-month law." (Oct. 18, 1999 U.S. Newswire). The first part of Sarah Brady's statement is true. "Gun tracing," which is directed at criminal activity, has proved to be very effective (see enforcing the laws we already have). However it is extremely doubtful that the "Brady Law" was "clearly linked" to a "significant drop in the homicide rate last year [1998]."
For example, California, which has had at least a five-day waiting period for handgun purchases since 1965 (see California's Handgun Waiting Period Law, 1952-1990: Did it Work?, by Clayton Cramer), experienced a greater decrease in its homicide rate (17.5%), in 1998, than the rest of the nation (7.4%). (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1997 and 1998)

Yes, selling a gun without a background check should be a crime with some punishment affixed. It doesn't look like any of you would comply, otherwise.

 

[Impenitent]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

That is an admission that using the background check system gives someone enough info to own your ID. I think you are being quite inventive to suggest it means I would sell my guns, much less that I would sell them to someone I do not know.

does anyone trust the government to let them have a complete list of every gun every citizen owns?

I would expect you to come up with a list of guns sold, just like any other dealer.

 

[turtledude]

why could none of the studies designed to support the brady bill find any evidence that those checks decreased crime?

and lets suppose some guy with a clean record who lives out in the country sells his pistol to his neighbor and fails to drive 45 minutes into town to do the BGC? you want him to go to jail I suspect. you want him to be branded a felon so he cannot ever own a gun again. that is the scheme behind the private background check drive

Violent crime did go down after the Brady bill.

There are politicians and gun control proponents who claim the Brady Act was a factor in producing the visible drop in homicide and violent crime of the last several years (for a display of homicide rates, see chart). For example Bill Clinton said: "I would close the gun show loophole, because the Brady bill has worked superbly. It’s given us a 35 percent drop in gun crime and a 31 year low in the homicide rate, and kept a half a million people — felons, fugitives, stalkers, from getting handguns." (April 12, 2000, NBC’s Tom Brokaw discusses gun control with the president) And Sarah Brady, Chairwoman of Handgun Control Inc., claimed: "The new FBI report demonstrates that the significant drop in the homicide rate last year is clearly linked to new efforts at gun tracing by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the Brady Law, and state anti-gun trafficking initiatives such as Virginia's one-gun-a-month law." (Oct. 18, 1999 U.S. Newswire). The first part of Sarah Brady's statement is true. "Gun tracing," which is directed at criminal activity, has proved to be very effective (see enforcing the laws we already have). However it is extremely doubtful that the "Brady Law" was "clearly linked" to a "significant drop in the homicide rate last year [1998]."
For example, California, which has had at least a five-day waiting period for handgun purchases since 1965 (see California's Handgun Waiting Period Law, 1952-1990: Did it Work?, by Clayton Cramer), experienced a greater decrease in its homicide rate (17.5%), in 1998, than the rest of the nation (7.4%). (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1997 and 1998)

Yes, selling a gun without a background check should be a crime with some punishment affixed. It doesn't look like any of you would comply, otherwise.[/QUOTE]

yeah clinton claimed that and morons weren't smart enough to understand two things

denying felons access to legal weapons does not decrease crime if they then get weapons someplace else because NO ONE PROSECUTED THEM

2) only 12 people were prosecuted of the 100,000s Clinton brayed about

3) how does gun tracing decrease homicides-that was a bogus report-read it and get back to me, we all read it in my office.

4) you confuse correlation with causation

5) clinton was lying-his own DOJ report could find that the only crime that might have been decreased by the brady bill was suicides among men 55-60 in age and that was due to the waiting period not the checks.

how are you going to enforce the private Background checks without full registration

I am glad you are on record for wanting to ruin lives of people who may not do a stupid check. I would hope if their lives are ruined, they would ruin the lives of those who pushed the law on them

 

[turtledude]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

That is an admission that using the background check system gives someone enough info to own your ID. I think you are being quite inventive to suggest it means I would sell my guns, much less that I would sell them to someone I do not know.

does anyone trust the government to let them have a complete list of every gun every citizen owns?

I would expect you to come up with a list of guns sold, just like any other dealer.

but private sellers have no duty to keep records of what they own or what they sell

are you suggesting that you also want complete gun registration-a claim that anti gunners deny is behind the UBGC movement but which I claim is their real goal?

 

[Impenitent]

Though not an intention of the background check laws, the prices of "hot" guns will go up, as criminals cannot buy guns from honest people, which will further reduce common gun crimes.

I thought conservatives wanted to reduce "urban" crime. Come on guys!

Hey SFB, criminals don't buy guns from honest people as it is

Yes, they do. Winterborn has already admitted he'll sell a gun, no questions asked. I supposed you do too, from your back porch.

.

"I have given my info numerous times to gun dealers. But, at the very least they will need my SSN, full name, and address. A dealer has a reason to stay within the law. An ordinary joe selling his deer rifle doesn't." Winterborn

That is an admission that using the background check system gives someone enough info to own your ID. I think you are being quite inventive to suggest it means I would sell my guns, much less that I would sell them to someone I do not know.

does anyone trust the government to let them have a complete list of every gun every citizen owns?

I would expect you to come up with a list of guns sold, just like any other dealer.

but private sellers have no duty to keep records of what they own or what they sell

are you suggesting that you also want complete gun registration-a claim that anti gunners deny is behind the UBGC movement but which I claim is their real goal?

No, not complete registration, but the way I understand the Colorado law, the private seller must relinquish the gun to a dealer, while the dealer runs the background check. If it checks out ok, the deal is then done. But if the buyer doesn't pass, the dealer retains the gun until the original seller passes the background check, then he can have the gun back. If neither can pass the background check, the gun is turned over to law enforcement.

Lots of records there. Lots of bad guys not getting guns.

 

[JoeB131]

[
JoeB hopes other gun owners are treated like the Weavers by the ATF I suspect. Calling them Nazis is his way of justifying government imposed murder on peaceful citizens who merely wanted to be left alone.

Then they should have followed the law if they wanted to be left alone.

 

[JoeB131]

[
you are lying again. tell me how many felonies you have prosecuted or criminal federal appeals you have handled. the entire weaver case is one of the real nadirs of the US law enforcement community and is a disgrace to all of us who worked for the federal government.

Unless you're like the copy boy, I don't imagine a nut like you would last very long in any federal agency.

The only problem iwth the Weaver Case is they let these Nazi ***** live.

 

[turtledude]

[
you are lying again. tell me how many felonies you have prosecuted or criminal federal appeals you have handled. the entire weaver case is one of the real nadirs of the US law enforcement community and is a disgrace to all of us who worked for the federal government.

Unless you're like the copy boy, I don't imagine a nut like you would last very long in any federal agency.

The only problem iwth the Weaver Case is they let these Nazi ***** live.

Hey douche bag, want to put up some serious jack

I can prove what I say-put up or shut up


You are too stupid to even understand what a Nazi is

but have you put that sign on your door yet

JOE B IS AFRAID OF FIREARMS AND MY HOUSE IS UNARMED
PLEASE COME IN AND **** ME HARD AND STEAL ALL I HAVE SINCE
I AM TOO COWARDLY TO FIGHT BACK

 

[JoeB131]

Hey douche bag, want to put up some serious jack

I can prove what I say-put up or shut up

You are too stupid to even understand what a Nazi is

but have you put that sign on your door yet

JOE B IS AFRAID OF FIREARMS AND MY HOUSE IS UNARMED
PLEASE COME IN AND **** ME HARD AND STEAL ALL I HAVE SINCE
I AM TOO COWARDLY TO FIGHT BACK

I think anyone who would encounter me not expecting me to fight back is in for a really nasty surprise.

I just don't fight back with guns. Nor do I think we should give guns to crazy people, Nazis, Preppers, or anyone who thinks he needs a gun to fight the 'Government".

And, no, guy, I doubt you'd have ever passed a Federal psych exam. I mean, you can't go a whole page without coming off like a murderous nut.

 

[WinterBorn]

[
JoeB hopes other gun owners are treated like the Weavers by the ATF I suspect. Calling them Nazis is his way of justifying government imposed murder on peaceful citizens who merely wanted to be left alone.

Then they should have followed the law if they wanted to be left alone.

There is plenty of speculation that Randy Weaver did not break the law. Higher ups in the FBI are among those who think this way. That is why he was not prosecuted.

 

[WinterBorn]

[
you are lying again. tell me how many felonies you have prosecuted or criminal federal appeals you have handled. the entire weaver case is one of the real nadirs of the US law enforcement community and is a disgrace to all of us who worked for the federal government.

Unless you're like the copy boy, I don't imagine a nut like you would last very long in any federal agency.

The only problem iwth the Weaver Case is they let these Nazi ***** live.

I am sorry that you can't get the federal gov't to kill the people you dislike or that are not politically correct enough.

But the feds killed two people, without justification. That is plenty. Your insistence that they are Nazis is still without any evidence. But feel free to give us a link to any you find. Until you do I will assume this is just another lie from you.

 

[turtledude]

Hey douche bag, want to put up some serious jack

I can prove what I say-put up or shut up

You are too stupid to even understand what a Nazi is

but have you put that sign on your door yet

JOE B IS AFRAID OF FIREARMS AND MY HOUSE IS UNARMED
PLEASE COME IN AND **** ME HARD AND STEAL ALL I HAVE SINCE
I AM TOO COWARDLY TO FIGHT BACK

I think anyone who would encounter me not expecting me to fight back is in for a really nasty surprise.

I just don't fight back with guns. Nor do I think we should give guns to crazy people, Nazis, Preppers, or anyone who thinks he needs a gun to fight the 'Government".

And, no, guy, I doubt you'd have ever passed a Federal psych exam. I mean, you can't go a whole page without coming off like a murderous nut.

you are setting a record for ignorant assumptions about a topic you are clueless about.

you need to put that sign up

and buy a big jar of KY jelly

it won't hurt so bad

if you are afraid of guns you are going to get OWNED by those who have them and use them

you are going to be some scum bag's own private peg boy

 

[turtledude]

[
you are lying again. tell me how many felonies you have prosecuted or criminal federal appeals you have handled. the entire weaver case is one of the real nadirs of the US law enforcement community and is a disgrace to all of us who worked for the federal government.

Unless you're like the copy boy, I don't imagine a nut like you would last very long in any federal agency.

The only problem iwth the Weaver Case is they let these Nazi ***** live.

I am sorry that you can't get the federal gov't to kill the people you dislike or that are not politically correct enough.

But the feds killed two people, without justification. That is plenty. Your insistence that they are Nazis is still without any evidence. But feel free to give us a link to any you find. Until you do I will assume this is just another lie from you.

cowards who fluff the government want men with guns to do their dirty work. they want big brother to kill people who don't agree with their fellation of big brother. its a cowardly thing

 

[WinterBorn]

Hey douche bag, want to put up some serious jack

I can prove what I say-put up or shut up

You are too stupid to even understand what a Nazi is

but have you put that sign on your door yet

JOE B IS AFRAID OF FIREARMS AND MY HOUSE IS UNARMED
PLEASE COME IN AND **** ME HARD AND STEAL ALL I HAVE SINCE
I AM TOO COWARDLY TO FIGHT BACK

I think anyone who would encounter me not expecting me to fight back is in for a really nasty surprise.

I just don't fight back with guns. Nor do I think we should give guns to crazy people, Nazis, Preppers, or anyone who thinks he needs a gun to fight the 'Government".

And, no, guy, I doubt you'd have ever passed a Federal psych exam. I mean, you can't go a whole page without coming off like a murderous nut.

I'm sure everyone is suitably scared. You are so tough. But then, if you don't use guns to defend yourself, I guess you just hope and pray that who ever attacks you doesn't use guns either? I mean, that is your entire defensive strategy, isn't it? "Oh I hope they don't have a gun"? And the hope that teh cops show up pretty fast, after you call 911.

 

[turtledude]

Hey douche bag, want to put up some serious jack

I can prove what I say-put up or shut up

You are too stupid to even understand what a Nazi is

but have you put that sign on your door yet

JOE B IS AFRAID OF FIREARMS AND MY HOUSE IS UNARMED
PLEASE COME IN AND **** ME HARD AND STEAL ALL I HAVE SINCE
I AM TOO COWARDLY TO FIGHT BACK

I think anyone who would encounter me not expecting me to fight back is in for a really nasty surprise.

I just don't fight back with guns. Nor do I think we should give guns to crazy people, Nazis, Preppers, or anyone who thinks he needs a gun to fight the 'Government".

And, no, guy, I doubt you'd have ever passed a Federal psych exam. I mean, you can't go a whole page without coming off like a murderous nut.

I'm sure everyone is suitably scared. You are so tough. But then, if you don't use guns to defend yourself, I guess you just hope and pray that who ever attacks you doesn't use guns either? I mean, that is your entire defensive strategy, isn't it? "Oh I hope they don't have a gun"? And the hope that teh cops show up pretty fast, after you call 911.

I think if some scumbag breaks into his home he will be lying naked in his bed with his legs spread saying "Please be gentle" and then he will show the mope where all his money is