Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

RE: Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people
※→ Humanity, et al,

This is an interesting line of questioning, but still something for the Jewish People to decide for themselves; just as Catholics decide who is a Catholic.

The Jewish people are also NOT defined by their religion.
Did you really write that?
(A PROSPECTIVE)

• Are the Jews a Nation? •

Judaism 101

"The traditional explanation, and the one given in the Torah, is that the Jews are a nation. The Hebrew word, believe it or not, is "goyª." The Torah and the rabbis used this term not in the modern sense meaning a territorial and political entity, but in the ancient sense meaning a group of people with a common history, a common destiny, and a sense that we are all connected to each other.

ª: Lit. nation. A non-Jew, that is, a member of one of the other nations. There is nothing
inherently insulting about the term; the word "goy" is used in the Torah to describe
Israel. See Jewish Attitudes Toward Non-Jews.

Unfortunately, in modern times, the term "nation" has become too contaminated by ugly, jingoistic notions of a country obsessed with its own superiority and bent on world domination. Because of this notion of "nationhood," Jews are often falsely accused of being disloyal to their own country in favor of their loyalty to the Jewish "nation," of being more loyal to Israel than to their home country. Some have gone so far as to use this distorted interpretation of "nationhood" to prove that Jews do, or seek to, control the world. In fact, a surprising number of antisemitic websites and newsgroup postings linked to this page (in an earlier form) as proof of their antisemitic delusions that Jews are nationalistic, that Israel is a colonial power and so forth.

Because of the inaccurate connotations that have attached themselves to the term "nation," the term can no longer be used to accurately describe the Jewish people."

(COMMENT)

It is up to them to decide, not us. It is part of the "why" a "Jewish National Home" is a necessity.


Most Respectfully,
R
 
Yes. But we are discussing Constitutions here. The question on the table is why excluding minority languages as official languages is to be accepted when other countries do it and vilified when Israel does it.

Catalan is NOT an excluded minority language! Why would you think that?

And why constitutionally compelling people to speak a language is fine when it's Castilian and vilified when it's Hebrew. (Even though that is not actually in Israel's basic law).

You are ignoring the fact that, living in a country with a different language to your own mother tongue, knowing the local language is of some importance.

I haven't vilified Israel for expecting people to know/learn Hebrew! Just another assumption Shusha!

I am resident in a country that is not my birth country and, unless I speak the local language then I would be pretty limited to my life. My adopted country ALSO has a language requirement to be resident not citizen, resident.

But again, you are deliberately ignoring the point, which is NOT whether learning a local majority language is useful.

The questions are:

1. Is it acceptable for a state to have only one official language in their Basic Law or Constitution?
2. Is it acceptable for a state to compel, through Basic Law or Constitution, citizens to learn the majority language?
 
Perhaps you would like to adopt 'positive discrimination' as a term to describe the protecting and defending of Jewish culture in Israel?

Most people call it affirmative action. I happen to think affirmative action is a good idea. Both for Arab citizens of Israel and globally for the Jewish people.
 
You are oblivious to the fact that Israel has two rights systems. There are citizens rights where all citizens have (more or less) equal rights. Then there are nationality rights. Only the Jewish nationality has access to these rights

Only the Jewish people have nationality rights IN ISRAEL. Others have nationality rights elsewhere. That is actually how the global system currently works. Citizens have national rights in their nation.

Are you suggesting that the Jewish people should have nationality rights in Palestine? Or not?
 
Yes. But we are discussing Constitutions here. The question on the table is why excluding minority languages as official languages is to be accepted when other countries do it and vilified when Israel does it.

Catalan is NOT an excluded minority language! Why would you think that?

And why constitutionally compelling people to speak a language is fine when it's Castilian and vilified when it's Hebrew. (Even though that is not actually in Israel's basic law).

You are ignoring the fact that, living in a country with a different language to your own mother tongue, knowing the local language is of some importance.

I haven't vilified Israel for expecting people to know/learn Hebrew! Just another assumption Shusha!

I am resident in a country that is not my birth country and, unless I speak the local language then I would be pretty limited to my life. My adopted country ALSO has a language requirement to be resident not citizen, resident.

But again, you are deliberately ignoring the point, which is NOT whether learning a local majority language is useful.

The questions are:

1. Is it acceptable for a state to have only one official language in their Basic Law or Constitution?
2. Is it acceptable for a state to compel, through Basic Law or Constitution, citizens to learn the majority language?

I wonder sometimes WHOM is actually deliberately ignoring the point here...

I have already stated that there are MORE than one official language in Spain. Did you miss that one?
I have already said that it makes TOTAL sense to learn the language of the country you live in!
Many countries have/use language tests as a requirement for residency. It's not new, it's a residency requirement that I and many friends have had to go through. Again, makes total sense!

I really do not get what your issue is with this! If you are trying to make some kind of point that it is discriminatory then you have failed terribly!

From what you are saying you disagree... Which, IMHO, is utter nuts!!!
 
Perhaps you would like to adopt 'positive discrimination' as a term to describe the protecting and defending of Jewish culture in Israel?

Most people call it affirmative action. I happen to think affirmative action is a good idea. Both for Arab citizens of Israel and globally for the Jewish people.

Aha, now we are getting somewhere...

No, most people do not call it "affirmation action". However, I am not going to even bother debating the semantics... Just a point to note, in S. Africa this is also known as "reverse apartheid".

It is 'positive discrimination'... Guess what... NO discrimination is positive!

And you think the above is a good idea? Jesus christ... Thanks for showing your true colours for once!
 
I have already stated that there are MORE than one official language in Spain. Did you miss that one?
I have already said that it makes TOTAL sense to learn the language of the country you live in!

And again you are ignoring the questions. There are many countries which have only one official language. Spain, as far as I know, is the only which compels all citizens to learn the language of the majority.

Are these stipulations acceptable in the Basic Law or Constitution of nations? Yes or no? Its not a hard question.
 
Aha, now we are getting somewhere...

No, most people do not call it "affirmation action". However, I am not going to even bother debating the semantics... Just a point to note, in S. Africa this is also known as "reverse apartheid".

It is 'positive discrimination'... Guess what... NO discrimination is positive!

And you think the above is a good idea? Jesus christ... Thanks for showing your true colours for once!

Except that Israel is not asking for anything that other countries don't already have. France protects the French language. Where is the outrage? Spain protects only the Castilian language and not the other languages of its people. Where is the outrage?
 
I have already stated that there are MORE than one official language in Spain. Did you miss that one?
I have already said that it makes TOTAL sense to learn the language of the country you live in!

And again you are ignoring the questions. There are many countries which have only one official language. Spain, as far as I know, is the only which compels all citizens to learn the language of the majority.

Are these stipulations acceptable in the Basic Law or Constitution of nations? Yes or no? Its not a hard question.

Shusha... What is it that you want me to say exactly?

Please do tell me...

And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!
 
Aha, now we are getting somewhere...

No, most people do not call it "affirmation action". However, I am not going to even bother debating the semantics... Just a point to note, in S. Africa this is also known as "reverse apartheid".

It is 'positive discrimination'... Guess what... NO discrimination is positive!

And you think the above is a good idea? Jesus christ... Thanks for showing your true colours for once!

Except that Israel is not asking for anything that other countries don't already have. France protects the French language. Where is the outrage? Spain protects only the Castilian language and not the other languages of its people. Where is the outrage?

You are losing the plot Shusha...

Close down your computer and come back another day!

No, Spain does NOT protect ONLY the Castilian language. I already told you that!

You are confused , confusing yourself and your argument!
 
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?
 
Aha, now we are getting somewhere...

No, most people do not call it "affirmation action". However, I am not going to even bother debating the semantics... Just a point to note, in S. Africa this is also known as "reverse apartheid".

It is 'positive discrimination'... Guess what... NO discrimination is positive!

And you think the above is a good idea? Jesus christ... Thanks for showing your true colours for once!

Except that Israel is not asking for anything that other countries don't already have. France protects the French language. Where is the outrage? Spain protects only the Castilian language and not the other languages of its people. Where is the outrage?

You are losing the plot Shusha...

Close down your computer and come back another day!

No, Spain does NOT protect ONLY the Castilian language. I already told you that!

You are confused , confusing yourself and your argument!

When posters flat out refuse to answer simple questions, that is telling.
 
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?

Hahaha let's see if you can actually engage your brain...

France - French speaking nation... What is the first language that French children learn?

Germany - German speaking nation... What is the first language that German children learn?

You are flogging a dead horse with your "state compulsory" bullshit Shusha...

Did you not read my previous post where I told you that, to be a resident of the country I live in, I had to pass a language test?

Give it up Shusha... You have ZERO argument! Just accept and move on!
 
Aha, now we are getting somewhere...

No, most people do not call it "affirmation action". However, I am not going to even bother debating the semantics... Just a point to note, in S. Africa this is also known as "reverse apartheid".

It is 'positive discrimination'... Guess what... NO discrimination is positive!

And you think the above is a good idea? Jesus christ... Thanks for showing your true colours for once!

Except that Israel is not asking for anything that other countries don't already have. France protects the French language. Where is the outrage? Spain protects only the Castilian language and not the other languages of its people. Where is the outrage?

You are losing the plot Shusha...

Close down your computer and come back another day!

No, Spain does NOT protect ONLY the Castilian language. I already told you that!

You are confused , confusing yourself and your argument!

When posters flat out refuse to answer simple questions, that is telling.

I have answered, you are simply being ignorant because you refuse to accept facts!

When the obvious is shown and ignored where else is there to go?

I have answered, you choose to ignore.... So.......
 
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?

Hahaha let's see if you can actually engage your brain...

France - French speaking nation... What is the first language that French children learn?

Germany - German speaking nation... What is the first language that German children learn?

You are flogging a dead horse with your "state compulsory" bullshit Shusha...

Did you not read my previous post where I told you that, to be a resident of the country I live in, I had to pass a language test?

Give it up Shusha... You have ZERO argument! Just accept and move on!

Have you even bothered to read Spain's Constitution?

The wording of the Constitution states that is is the DUTY of every Spanish citizen to learn Castilian. As far as I know, no other country compels learning a specific language as a constitutional requirement.

Are you agreeing that this is perfectly fair and reasonable to have in a Constitution? If yes, just say so. Its not hard.
 
15th post
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?

Hahaha let's see if you can actually engage your brain...

France - French speaking nation... What is the first language that French children learn?

Germany - German speaking nation... What is the first language that German children learn?

You are flogging a dead horse with your "state compulsory" bullshit Shusha...

Did you not read my previous post where I told you that, to be a resident of the country I live in, I had to pass a language test?

Give it up Shusha... You have ZERO argument! Just accept and move on!

Have you even bothered to read Spain's Constitution?

The wording of the Constitution states that is is the DUTY of every Spanish citizen to learn Castilian. As far as I know, no other country compels learning a specific language as a constitutional requirement.

Are you agreeing that this is perfectly fair and reasonable to have in a Constitution? If yes, just say so. Its not hard.

I lived in Spain Shusha... I know what is and isn't required!

I know, let's try this... Turn up in Spain, with zero knowledge of Spanish and see how long you last! No, I am NOT talking about the Costas, I am talking about real Spain where English is hardly spoken... In fact, 'your' compulsory Spanish is also hardly spoken!

You need to get into the real world Shusha...

Let me tell you AGAIN....

I am resident in a country where it is compulsory to speak the language of the country or you are simply NOT going to be resident... This, in case you are unaware, is becoming a Europe wide requirement!

Now, either accept the facts or, respectfully, shut the **** up!
 
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?

Hahaha let's see if you can actually engage your brain...

France - French speaking nation... What is the first language that French children learn?

Germany - German speaking nation... What is the first language that German children learn?

You are flogging a dead horse with your "state compulsory" bullshit Shusha...

Did you not read my previous post where I told you that, to be a resident of the country I live in, I had to pass a language test?

Give it up Shusha... You have ZERO argument! Just accept and move on!

Have you even bothered to read Spain's Constitution?

The wording of the Constitution states that is is the DUTY of every Spanish citizen to learn Castilian. As far as I know, no other country compels learning a specific language as a constitutional requirement.

Are you agreeing that this is perfectly fair and reasonable to have in a Constitution? If yes, just say so. Its not hard.

I lived in Spain Shusha... I know what is and isn't required!

I know, let's try this... Turn up in Spain, with zero knowledge of Spanish and see how long you last! No, I am NOT talking about the Costas, I am talking about real Spain where English is hardly spoken... In fact, 'your' compulsory Spanish is also hardly spoken!

You need to get into the real world Shusha...

Let me tell you AGAIN....

I am resident in a country where it is compulsory to speak the language of the country or you are simply NOT going to be resident... This, in case you are unaware, is becoming a Europe wide requirement!

Now, either accept the facts or, respectfully, shut the **** up!


Since you apparently have no problem with the wording of the Constitution of Spain, you can not possibly have a problem with the Basic Law of Israel. I WILL take that as your answer. And call you out if you turn hypocrite on me.

Meanwhile, you are in luck. I am off to NYC for work and you won't hear much from me in the next two weeks. Have a lovely vacay from me. MMMMWHA.
 
And, just for a fact check, NO dear, Spain is NOT the only country that compels citizens to learn the language of the majority... Think about it for **** sake!

Link?

Hahaha let's see if you can actually engage your brain...

France - French speaking nation... What is the first language that French children learn?

Germany - German speaking nation... What is the first language that German children learn?

You are flogging a dead horse with your "state compulsory" bullshit Shusha...

Did you not read my previous post where I told you that, to be a resident of the country I live in, I had to pass a language test?

Give it up Shusha... You have ZERO argument! Just accept and move on!

Have you even bothered to read Spain's Constitution?

The wording of the Constitution states that is is the DUTY of every Spanish citizen to learn Castilian. As far as I know, no other country compels learning a specific language as a constitutional requirement.

Are you agreeing that this is perfectly fair and reasonable to have in a Constitution? If yes, just say so. Its not hard.

I lived in Spain Shusha... I know what is and isn't required!

I know, let's try this... Turn up in Spain, with zero knowledge of Spanish and see how long you last! No, I am NOT talking about the Costas, I am talking about real Spain where English is hardly spoken... In fact, 'your' compulsory Spanish is also hardly spoken!

You need to get into the real world Shusha...

Let me tell you AGAIN....

I am resident in a country where it is compulsory to speak the language of the country or you are simply NOT going to be resident... This, in case you are unaware, is becoming a Europe wide requirement!

Now, either accept the facts or, respectfully, shut the **** up!

:321::321: :iyfyus.jpg:
 

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