Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[Sixties Fan]

MK Shuli Moalem-Refaeli, chairman of the Jewish House faction, said on Sunday that the purpose of the national law is not to create equality.

"The Nationality Law is a good law. It is desirable, right and proper. The word "equality", which does not appear in the law, appears in two Basic Laws enacted in 1992. This is not a law aimed at equality, And not of any other nation," said Moalem-Refaeli in an interview with David Yusov on Southern Radio.

(full article online)

'The purpose of the Nationality Law is not to create equality'

 

[Sixties Fan]

We have determined the personal equal rights of Israeli citizens in a series of laws including Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty, laws that ensure full equality before the law, beginning with the right to vote and be elected to the Knesset and ending with all other personal rights in the State of Israel.

However, we have never determined the national rights of the Jewish People in its land in a basic law – until now, when we passed the Nation-State Law. What is the meaning of national rights? They define the flag, the national anthem, the language and, of course, the fact that one of the basic goals of the state is the ingathering of exiles of our people and their absorption here in the land of Israel. This is the meaning of the Zionist vision.

Does determining that our flag bears the Star of David somehow abrogate the individual right of anyone among Israel's citizens? Nonsense, but determining this ensures that there will not be another flag. Does determining that Hatikvah is our national anthem detract from the personal rights of any person in Israel? Nonsense, but it does determine that there will not be another anthem. Already there are proposals to replace the flag and the anthem in the name of equality, as it were. There is opposition to the idea of a nation-state in many countries, but first of all in the State of Israel, something that undermines the foundation of our existence, and therefore, the attacks emanating from left-wing circles that define themselves as Zionist are absurd and expose the nadir to which the left has sunk.

Now, I would like to quote from the basic principles of the Nation-State Law. The first clause: 'The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established.' The second clause: 'The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious and historical right to self-determination.' The third clause: 'The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.' The Nation-State law goes on to anchor in basic legislation our flag, our national anthem, the symbols of the state and that Jerusalem is our eternal capital. Would the fathers of Zionism not sign it?

(full article online)

'The attacks expose the depths to which the left has sunk'

 

[Coyote]

It is Jew free because Israel removed them.

Well, yes and no. From Gaza, yes. Because Israel feared for their safety. From Jerusalem and the "West Bank" no -- they were forcibly removed during the war. You are veering awfully close to justifying ethnic cleansing here.

Where in the hell do you get that out of what I said?

 

[Coyote]

It is Jew free because Israel removed them.

Well, yes and no. From Gaza, yes. Because Israel feared for their safety. From Jerusalem and the "West Bank" no -- they were forcibly removed during the war. You are veering awfully close to justifying ethnic cleansing here.

And Israel IS the enemy.

Sure. But the CONTEXT is a punishment of death or a lifetime of hard labor for selling property to the "enemy". Surely, you can not be saying that it is legally and morally permissible for Israel to imprison or execute those who sell land to non-Israelis, are you? Surely you are not saying that it is legally and morally permissible for Israel to block all sale of land to Arabs as "enemy", are you? Your double standards are showing.

Whoah. You are putting a whole lot of words in my mouth.

As far as the Palestinians are concerned Israel IS the enemy. Do you deny this? Acknowledging that fact has nothing to do with the legality or morality of their actions. In fact you yourself justified morally questionable actions such as the use and abuse of absentee land owner laws to confiscate Palestinian property, saying it was ethically justified because a people were fighting for their existence. Which, I might add can also be said of the Palestinians. Double standards anyone?

 

[Indeependent]

We do that often with the Palestinians as well as to how their future state would be Jew free or governed.

No we don't. For starters, their future state is ALREADY Jew-free.

I have seen multiple claims by those claiming no Jews would be allowed in a Palestinian State. That is as much speculation and demonizing as speculating Israel’s new law will lead to greater discrimination. We don’t know what a Palestinian State will bring or what eventual constitution will be decided upon.

Try taking a peek at the rest of the Middle East.
It's amazing someone actually has to tell you this.

 

[Coyote]

Shusha

You can not hold the Palestinians to the same standards as Israel in regards to being a state actor, because they DO NOT HAVE a state or complete sovereignty over any territory. Not even Gaza. They have no state and everything they do have can be taken away or constrained by Israel. They have nothing to gain or lose. You can’t just assume their state, should it come to be, will be Jew free any more than you could have assumed Israel, in its formation, would be Arab free (and there were factions that wanted just that). As far as Palestinians are concerned they are in a state of occupation by an enemy. That is their view, and if comparisons should be made...perhaps it should be to Israel in its war of independence. There is no nation yet.

That does not mean they can’t be held accountable for their actions as people. Lobbing rockets into civilian areas, terrorist attacks etc.

 

[Coyote]

The idea of" choseness is not originating with us -- it is PUT ON US by others.

So there is nothing the in the torah or bible giving Jews "choseness"?

The only person who brought up choseness is you. It is a pattern on this board that the only people who bring up choseness are people wishing to demonize the Jewish people. Oh, and its not "providing valid criticism of Israel's government policies" -- its a direct attack on the Jewish people.

Jewish people do not bring up choseness. It is a tool used by those who have an unreasonable hatred of Jews in order to apply traits of arrogance and superiority to Jews so that they can be demonized. (Which, btw, is NOT what choseness means and anyone with any knowledge of actual Torah, rather than canards said about Torah, would know that.)

I think that is an important distinction.

 

[Coyote]

As to the Slovenian constitution, you should have read it, for had you done so, you'd realize it's an admirable document, and Israel could have learned how to do it right.

The only thing that even so much as smells of discrimination is a provision that allows for ethnic Slovenian citizens of other states to be granted, by law, privileges over other foreigners on Slovenian soil.

Uh huh. When Slovenia writes:
the fundamental and permanent right of the Slovene nation to self-determination; and from the historical fact that in a centuries-long struggle for national liberation we Slovenes have established our national identity and asserted our statehood... its ADMIRABLE.

And when Israel writes:
The state of Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people, in which it actualizes its natural, religious, and historical right for self-determination...its APARTHEID.

And yet you don't see the double standard. Its more than a little ridiculous.

But you didn't read it, and you are dutifully re-bleating the hasbara your handlers tasked you with catapulting. Your handlers also knew, apparently, that you'd be too lazy to read the document, and so they confidently lied to you. Why you debase yourself in that way I cannot understand, but hey... to each their own.

Yes, the very latest antisemitic canard. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate know that about you.

I would not call it Apartheid but there is a key difference. The Slovene people...all the people...of Slovenia. No distinctions.

A comparable statement for Israel would refer to the Israeli people...not just a subgroup of them.

 

[Shusha]

They have nothing to gain or lose.

They have absolutely EVERYTHING to gain and potentially a whole lot more to lose. And whether they gain or lose it is directly dependent on THEIR actions -- not on Israel's. Belligerence will bring them loss. Co-operation and peace will bring them gain.

Why is everyone SO reluctant to hold the Palestinians accountable?

 

[Shusha]

I would not call it Apartheid but there is a key difference. The Slovene people...all the people...of Slovenia. No distinctions.

Ah, no. Slovenes are a specific ethnic group. About 15% of the citizens of Slovenia are non-Slovenes (Hungarians, Italians, Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, etc). The entire purpose of the dissolution of Yugoslavia was to create States built around specific national (ethnic) groups.

 

[Shusha]

You can’t just assume their state, should it come to be, will be Jew free ...

I'm not assuming it. They've said as much.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Even as talks for a permanent Israeli-Palestinian peace got off to a cautious start in Washington Monday, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in Egypt that no Israelis would be allowed to remain in a future Palestinian state.

“In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,” Abbas said following a meeting with interim Egyptian President Adly Mansour in Cairo.

(full article online)

Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine

 

[Olde Europe]

As far as the Palestinians are concerned Israel IS the enemy. Do you deny this?

Of course. Whenever you think "the Palestinians", "the Jews", "the Americans" (etc.), you ought to think "diversity" - just as "Team Israel" isn't homogeneous. Some, even many, Palestinians deem Israel the enemy, others do not, for instance those who would be happy to have escaped the rule by the mouth-breathers of Hamas. I don't know how that can be disputed. I'd venture a guess, most Palestinians are just like people everywhere: They'd like to live in a safe neighborhood, have food on the table, and a brighter future for their children. The fact that they - understandably enough - react furiously to infringements on their small dreams doesn't necessarily mean they deem "Israel the enemy".

 

[USAF 2023]

Even as talks for a permanent Israeli-Palestinian peace got off to a cautious start in Washington Monday, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in Egypt that no Israelis would be allowed to remain in a future Palestinian state.

“In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli — civilian or soldier — on our lands,” Abbas said following a meeting with interim Egyptian President Adly Mansour in Cairo.

(full article online)

Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine

No Israelis in Palestine no “ Right of Return “ Sounds right to me!!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Omri Boehm, a philosopher who we have written about before, once again uses the New York Times to advance an anti-Israel argument which would receive a failing grade from any real philosophy class.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claims that the new legislation simply “determined in law the founding principle of our existence.” In fact, its primary function is to build a formal foundation for Israel’s annexation of the West Bank — and for a Jewish state eventually to stretch over the whole of Palestine. This is an assertion for which sham philosopher Boehm brings no proof. The words of the Basic Law may make such an annexation easier - but one can argue the opposite as well, since such an annexation would cause severe problems to Israel's existence as a Jewish state. In other words, Boehm is resorting to proof by assertion, a logical fallacy that a real philosopher would never do. After all, even the most right wing portion of the Likud coalition is not contemplating annexing the entire West Bank. Boehm simply made this up.

(full article online)

NYT op-ed using the Basic Law as an excuse to attack the very idea of a Jewish state ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Dogmaphobe]

"Team Israel" isn't homogeneous. .

Neither is team antisemite.

You all have your own reasons for singling out Jews in ways you single out no other people.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here are two interesting viewpoints on the Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People, from non-Jewish Israelis.

One is from a Maronite Christian who lives in Israel, in an article translated from Israel Hayom:


And a Druze Zionist has his own reasons to support the law,even though many Druze have expressed misgivings about it:

(full article online)

Non-Jewish Israelis supporting Nation-State Law ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Humanity]

The idea of" choseness is not originating with us -- it is PUT ON US by others.

So there is nothing the in the torah or bible giving Jews "choseness"?

The only person who brought up choseness is you. It is a pattern on this board that the only people who bring up choseness are people wishing to demonize the Jewish people. Oh, and its not "providing valid criticism of Israel's government policies" -- its a direct attack on the Jewish people.

Jewish people do not bring up choseness. It is a tool used by those who have an unreasonable hatred of Jews in order to apply traits of arrogance and superiority to Jews so that they can be demonized. (Which, btw, is NOT what choseness means and anyone with any knowledge of actual Torah, rather than canards said about Torah, would know that.)

So, to get this straight, you are trying to tell me that not a single Team Israel member has ever said that Israel was given to them by god?

You are trying to tell me that Jews do not think that they are the chosen ones?

You weren't chosen for a reason.

I guess that would be because I am not a Jew! Point proven. Thanks

 

[Humanity]

You are asking me if there are people who hold Jewish religious faith traditions?! And that some of them are on this board arguing for Team Israel? OF COURSE THERE ARE! Duh.

So don't try and deny that there aren't.... Duh!

No. I'm trying to tell you that your original assertion, posted below, which is that Team I routinely uses the "choseness argument" to assert claim over Israel is both false and demonizing.

Seems that you want it both ways, as usual... You jump around like a beheaded frog with your 'ideas and how you try to defend/justify your 'ideas'.

 

[Humanity]

The regular posters for Team Israel use the Jewish people's historical and ancestral continued presence in the land for more than 3000 years, as indigenous peoples, for the basis of our arguments that the Jewish people, like all other peoples, have a right to a homeland, including a nation. Our arguments are NOT based on religious concepts. While, occasionally, a religious concept becomes part of the conversation, as part of the culture of the Jewish people, religion is not the basis for our claims. (And I have argued consistently that it can't be).

You are the spokesperson for Team Israel members now?

AND, if, as you claim, you fully support the rights of the Jewish people to a national homeland in that territory, you wouldn't be writing posts which collectively demonize the Jewish people and undermine their claim. Though I do appreciate the opportunity to scratch the surface, as it were, and see what lies at your core.

There is nothing that I have written that any sane person would consider "demonization" of anyone! That is your opinion based on you being Team Israel!