Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[rylah]

Good for the Israelis. How I wish we would do something like that here.

May I ask where are You from?

 

[rylah]

Jews conquered the indigenous residents of Israel long ago. I wonder if their descendants claim ownership of the land.

You would be very, very hard pressed to find a culture in that territory which is distinct from and pre-existing the Jewish culture. All archaeological findings seem to indicate that the Jewish culture developed from within preceding cultures. That said, if you find me some descendants of some ancient culture still practicing that culture, they have every right to claim indigenous status on that land.

The worst mistake of the 20th century was the 1st world determining that the land that is now Israel should be taken and given to foreigners, and to expel the indigenous people there.

But you've reversed which were the foreigners and which are the indigenous peoples.

Christian culture developed from Jewish culture. You have now argued that Christians are indigenous to Israel. What did Islamic culture grow out of? Uh oh...

There is no such thing as Christian ethnicity or nation.
Their claim to indigenous rights goes through Jews.

And You're back to square one.

 

[rylah]

Christian culture developed from Jewish culture. You have now argued that Christians are indigenous to Israel. What did Islamic culture grow out of? Uh oh...

You clearly do not understand the meaning of "culture" and how it relates to indigeneity. Stealing another culture's religious stories does not give one a culture nor make one indigenous.

One culture evolved out of another, and one evolved from that one, but my arbitrary rules say only the one I like can claim indigeneity.

Indigenous culture is fundamentally distinct from preceding cultures in scope and originality.
It's when the connection between a people and land become common heritage of most nations, as is the case with the Jewish nation indigenous to Israel.

 

[rylah]

You clearly do not understand the meaning of "culture" and how it relates to indigeneity. Stealing another culture's religious stories does not give one a culture nor make one indigenous.

One culture evolved out of another, and one evolved from that one, but my arbitrary rules say only the one I like can claim indigeneity.

Not so. Christianity and Islam did not evolve out of Judaism. They developed as counter-arguments and replacement arguments to Jewish religious beliefs, in opposition to them and in other parts of the world.

What country is Christianity indigenous to?

The question should be:
Where did Christianity originated?

Which is different from saying the word Indigenous.

Paul of Tarsus, who founded Christianity, was definitely NOT indigenous from the Land of Israel/Judea.

Many who followed him, as he went all around the Roman world, were also not Indigenous to the Land of Israel/Judea.

The number of Jews following in Paul's teachings of Jesus, was not a great one. Most remained Jewish and continued to follow Judaism.

That included Jesus and his followers themselves. They remained Jewish.

Christianity originated in Israel. That is not a question.

Original christians were a Jewish sect, they circumcised and kept the Jewish law.
It ceased to have all connection to the Jewish tribe when Rome took it over and made it into the exact opposite of Jewish heritage.

 

[rylah]

Christians would unanimously beg to differ. You really shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds.

Christianity is not a culture. Christianity is part of other cultures.

So is Judaism.

Half the world are Christians...
Judaism is a small family with a distinct identity.

 

[rylah]

Christianity is not a culture. Christianity is part of other cultures.

So is Judaism.

Judaism is the religious aspect of the Jewish culture. Jewish culture is much more than just the religious faith.

Same with Christianity. You are changing your definition of culture to suit your steaming heap of horseshit.

It is you who has an inconsistent argument. Christianity is a religion. Judaism is a religion. Islam is a religion. None of these religions form a culture of themselves. But they are part of what defines a culture. Christianity is part of Roman (Italian) culture. Christianity is part of Latin American culture. Christianity is part of Greek culture. Islam is part of Arab culture. Judaism is part of Jewish culture.

Do you need a Venn diagram?

Jewish culture in New York is different from Jewish culture in Bethelhem. But they share the same rituals and beliefs, thus linking their cultures. You have a different definition of culture for Judaism than for other religions. You are not unique. Your perceptions about your religion are not unique. Christians and Muslims and Taoists and Hindu’s will all tell you that their religions are part of their cultures.

Jew are an ethno-religious group.
There're secular Jews, Taoist Jews...although the Taoist would argue he was merely a cat in the flow until the question of his existence arose.

 

[rylah]

Jewish culture in New York is different from Jewish culture in Bethelhem. But they share the same rituals and beliefs, thus linking their cultures. You have a different definition of culture for Judaism than for other religions. You are not unique. Your perceptions about your religion are not unique. Christians and Muslims and Taoists and Hindu’s will all tell you that their religions are part of their cultures.

Judaism is part of Jewish culture. That is entirely my point. It is the exact same definition I hold for other religions. The religion is part of the culture. It is YOU who are denying that religion is only a small part of the Jewish culture. Jewish culture also encompasses all the other aspects I have already mentioned. That is what makes Jewish culture indigenous to that particular place. Not the religion. The broader culture.

Jewish rituals are no more special than other religions’ rituals. I consider that a profoundly stupid argument. So move on.

'Distinct' is the word You're looking for, and yes they are.
Hebrew for example is the only Canaanite language that preserved.

 

[rylah]

Your argument about conflict rising from Jewish self-determination can easily be thrown back in your face as rising from Palestinian self-determination.

So, to be clear, you support the Jewish people's self-determination as a nation, yes?

Not as long as my country has to suffer for it. So get your shit together.

Do you or do you not believe fundamentally, objectively in the right of peoples to self-determination, including the Jewish people?

Nobody has ever had an objective right to self determination. The people doing the self determining are the ones who eliminated the others in the vicinity who were trying to self determine. So your people happened to be in or around Israel thousands of years ago the day enough of them became convinced to believe in a bunch of magic. That is not special.

Small correction there,
Not thousands of years ago, but for thousands of years.

 

[rylah]

BlackFlag

The reason I ask about your stand on self-determination, is that your entrance into this thread was to claim that the declaration of self-determination is an obstacle to peace. And I reject that idea. On the contrary, the acceptance of self-determination for BOTH peoples is essential to peace. It is the core of peace.

Now it seems from your last two posts that you reject the idea of rights to self-determination by either side. And presumably that right for all other peoples as well.

Your point on this thread, then, is to remove the US (at least, I assume you are American) from the Arab/Israeli conflict because that conflict hurts you and the US?

You have 2 sides that believe they have a right to self-determination. The heart of the peace process is reconciling those 2 beliefs. The government that is in power and holds the cards just said that 1 of those groups now officially has no right to self-determination in the country. That is akin to the United States, instead of passing the civil rights act in the 60’s, had declared that black people will not have equal rights.

No, a relative comparison would be a declaration by the Arab empire that Israel/Judea is the homeland of the Jewish people.

 

[rylah]

Lots of hold ups, and little significant action or concessions. Which has led me to believe there is no serious movement for peace on either side; just movements for victory. I don’t really care which happens, but I don’t have any say. So when I see something like this declaration, which was a totally unnecessary provocation, I will comment on it. I will also maintain that the U.S. has nothing to gain from inserting itself.

How is a declaration of self-determination a "provocation"? Contrasted with violent attempts to cross the border and murder Israelis?

In my country, minority groups are not rising up in revolution and risking their lives to fight a perceived oppressor. That is a problem for you to solve, and for me to convince my country to leave it alone.

Are there countries where minorities don't rise for revolution?

Yes. The umbrella term for them is the “first world” countries.

Should we call the US a 3rd world country then?
Minorities do call for an Intifada and Jihad against the WH.

 

[rylah]

The clause would allow for communities, including "of a single religion or a single nationality", to build separate towns.
http://www.iataskforce.org/sites/default/files/resource/resource-1586.pdf

This includes Arab municipalities.

So it will be re-considered?

You already answered that. Look at the post I'm responding.

I don´t understand.

You already confirmed that the clause was rejected.
The law was passed with a pragraph of immutability.

Your PDF reads:

"The bill does include a clause allowing communities, including "of a single religion or a single
nationality", to build separate towns, but the explanation notes to the bill state that this clause
will be reexamined when the bill is prepared for second and third reading."

So I asked if it will be re-considered later.

Bleipriester
The clause said it would be reexamined,
It already passed the 2nd and 3rd readings and wasn't included.

 

[montelatici]

Should the U.S. declare itself the Christian state, or maybe the EU should declare itself Christian too and reserve self-determination to Christians only. Would U.S. or European Jews be offended?

 

[Preacher]

Should the U.S. declare itself the Christian state, or maybe the EU should declare itself Christian too and reserve self-determination to Christians only. Would U.S. or European Jews be offended?

Oh you know Jews would be offended as would the world...Jews just have to whine about anti semitism to shut people up and it works usually.

 

[montelatici]

"Presbyterian Church calls Israel ‘apartheid state’"

Scots and Scot-Irish Protestants have taken a big step.

US Presbyterian Church calls Israel 'apartheid state'

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - dat's the land God gave the Jews."

‘This is our country. This is our language’: Controversial law deems Israel homeland of the Jewish people
Jul 19, 2018 - A controversial new law enacted overnight by Israel's parliament has again stirred deep emotions about the identity of the nation. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised the new law for enshrining the basic principle of Israel's existence -- that it is the national state of the Jewish people. But critics called it cruel, fearing what it means for the Arab minority.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/t...-israel-homeland-of-the-jewish-people

 

[Coyote]

Interesting and disturbing. I guess this doesn’t bode well for the Arab Israeli citizens down the road. I wonder if they will allowed into the Jewish settlements being promoted?

According to the Haaretz, "The [nation-state] law also includes clauses stating that a 'united Jerusalem' is the capital of Israel and that Hebrew is the country's official language. Another says that 'the state sees the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation.'"

The law further rescinds Arabic as an official language, downgrading it to a "special status."

Reuters notes, "Early drafts of the legislation went further in what critics at home and abroad saw as discrimination toward Israel's Arabs, who have long said they are treated as second-class citizens."

The news agency says, "Clauses that were dropped in last-minute political wrangling - and after objections by Israel's president and attorney-general - would have enshrined in law the establishment of Jewish-only communities, and instructed courts to rule according to Jewish ritual law when there were no relevant legal precedents."​

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel Passes Controversial Law Reserving National Self-Determination For Jews

As usual Jewish hypocrisy,force and push invasion and integration on White America but make sure the Jewish people have segregation and closed borders.

Tell us please how the Jewish people are pushing “ invasion” ( I suppose you mean illegal immigration) and integration on White America

 

[USAF 2023]

Should the U.S. declare itself the Christian state, or maybe the EU should declare itself Christian too and reserve self-determination to Christians only. Would U.S. or European Jews be offended?

Another Hypocrite. Tell us why there are recognized Arab or Muslim States. Better yet, tell us why Abbas has stated No Israelis allowed in “ Palestine” Thete will not be a response; there never is

 

[Preacher]

Israel Passes Controversial Law Reserving National Self-Determination For Jews

As usual Jewish hypocrisy,force and push invasion and integration on White America but make sure the Jewish people have segregation and closed borders.

Tell us please how the Jewish people are pushing “ invasion” ( I suppose you mean illegal immigration) and integration on White America

Like you care. I won't bother. I have gone over it before...the short answer is the 1965 immigration act go look who was BEHIND it not who was the face of it. Jewish senators,Congressman and Jewish groups ALL pushed it and lied about it. You don't care so I don't care if you don't like the truth.

 

[Coyote]

Israel Passes Controversial Law Reserving National Self-Determination For Jews

As usual Jewish hypocrisy,force and push invasion and integration on White America but make sure the Jewish people have segregation and closed borders.

Tell us please how the Jewish people are pushing “ invasion” ( I suppose you mean illegal immigration) and integration on White America

Like you care. I won't bother. I have gone over it before...the short answer is the 1965 immigration act go look who was BEHIND it not who was the face of it. Jewish senators,Congressman and Jewish groups ALL pushed it and lied about it. You don't care so I don't care if you don't like the truth.

That is just nuts.